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On November 29 2012 13:46 pschiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:22 BlackPaladin wrote:On November 29 2012 12:56 wussleeQ wrote:On November 29 2012 12:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
vayne free week?
time to ban vayne for a week so my team doesn't pick her Is she really that hard to play? o.o Low range squishy AD carry. People are bad enough with champs like cait with 650 auto range. Or ashe with 600. Imagine someone bad playing an AD that is even squishier with less range. Now add onto that a really bad build (say, zeal -> LW cause they can't farm and "enemy team is stacking armor!"). Now on top of it all give said champ a movement ability (tumble) that bad players use to move INTO the enemy team instead of using it to kite, as well as an ability to save any enemy with low health. At least you see people getting LW cause "enemy team is stacking armor!" I have to keep nagging my AD carry allies to get LW when necessary instead of stuff like MBR. T.T
Love playing in games and seeing everyone argue that MBR is the best item in the game because it does % health damage. It makes me appreciate TL a bit more each time.
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On November 29 2012 14:23 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:46 pschiu wrote:On November 29 2012 13:22 BlackPaladin wrote:On November 29 2012 12:56 wussleeQ wrote:On November 29 2012 12:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
vayne free week?
time to ban vayne for a week so my team doesn't pick her Is she really that hard to play? o.o Low range squishy AD carry. People are bad enough with champs like cait with 650 auto range. Or ashe with 600. Imagine someone bad playing an AD that is even squishier with less range. Now add onto that a really bad build (say, zeal -> LW cause they can't farm and "enemy team is stacking armor!"). Now on top of it all give said champ a movement ability (tumble) that bad players use to move INTO the enemy team instead of using it to kite, as well as an ability to save any enemy with low health. At least you see people getting LW cause "enemy team is stacking armor!" I have to keep nagging my AD carry allies to get LW when necessary instead of stuff like MBR. T.T Love playing in games and seeing everyone argue that MBR is the best item in the game because it does % health damage. It makes me appreciate TL a bit more each time.
Whenever I see my AD carry with a recurve bow, I'm getting ready to facepalm internally.*
* might become actually good if hurricane turns out to be nuts on certain champs like people say it will be
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On November 29 2012 14:20 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:46 pschiu wrote:On November 29 2012 13:22 BlackPaladin wrote:On November 29 2012 12:56 wussleeQ wrote:On November 29 2012 12:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
vayne free week?
time to ban vayne for a week so my team doesn't pick her Is she really that hard to play? o.o Low range squishy AD carry. People are bad enough with champs like cait with 650 auto range. Or ashe with 600. Imagine someone bad playing an AD that is even squishier with less range. Now add onto that a really bad build (say, zeal -> LW cause they can't farm and "enemy team is stacking armor!"). Now on top of it all give said champ a movement ability (tumble) that bad players use to move INTO the enemy team instead of using it to kite, as well as an ability to save any enemy with low health. At least you see people getting LW cause "enemy team is stacking armor!" I have to keep nagging my AD carry allies to get LW when necessary instead of stuff like MBR. T.T LW is worse damage than a 2nd PD on a lot of champs. And is always less than an IE (if you went BT first or TF>BT). The only plausible reason for pros buying it so often (besides silliness) is that it gives you a faster powerspike (cheaper). IE>PD>LW is surprisingly non-ideal on a lot of AD Carries.
nope its exactly what you said, you build like that due to prices. You only go BT/PD/IE when your absurdly fed, otherwise you cant wait an extra 2k
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I just bought Lee, and all the jungle guides basically run him wriggles into tank.
This isn't really very fun....are more damage assasin type builds really so shitty on him in the jungle? He has such absurd escapes that it seems like it would be strong...is his AD scaling shit or something?
If I was gonna build him like an assassin what would be good? Like Dblades bruta? Wriggles is really core it seems with all his free AS in the jungle. BT? What about tri?
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On November 29 2012 14:28 sob3k wrote:
I just bought Lee, and all the jungle guides basically run him wriggles into tank.
This isn't really very fun....are more damage assasin type builds really so shitty on him in the jungle? He has such absurd escapes that it seems like it would be strong...is his AD scaling shit or something?
If I was gonna build him like an assassin what would be good? Like Dblades bruta? Wriggles is really core it seems with all his free AS in the jungle. BT? What about tri?
you can skip wriggles and get phage/hexdrinker for a more gank orientated build and if you do well you could get a BT after or brutalizer. thats about it. You're best off just getting aegis though, so strong on him
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now i've seen karma and/or urgot in four consecutive games
what is happening
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Froggens Lee Sin carry build is like BT LW GA trolololololololol or so.
It's pretty absurd damage.
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On November 29 2012 14:15 Vanka wrote:
So, I know people on here like to theorycraft, so here's something for you:
My friend who makes up the fifth man in a group was one of the ones who played lol the longest, but got bored of it so we don't usually have five for a team which sucks =(. Anyway, he has some attachment to old school styles of building champs so I was thinking if I could get a build for him that builds that way adapted to the new meta, he might find the game more fun.
We're not trying to be competitive at all, so something that's cool and works in solo queue would be excellent.
He liked Mordekaiser, but he never liked the ap mid morde build. He used to build old old school tank morde, with sunfire and fon, and that's the style he likes. Tank morde I'm not sure about how to do, but bruiser morde I'm thinking has more promise maybe. Maybe...triforce into randuins + tank items? His q scales on bonus ad, so maybe a bloodthrister into full tank build? Sunfire wits?
21 in defence seems obvious, then 9 in offense is probably the way to go. Standard armor yellows, mr blues, and depending on what I decide on ap or ad, some sort of penetration marks. Quints are preference I guess.
To be honest, bruiser itemization is probably what I have the worst grasp of, so any help will be appreciated. I'll take some suggestions, and see how they work out in practice. After that I'll write a guide or something for my friend.
Throw in a Haunting Visage.
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On November 29 2012 14:28 sob3k wrote:
I just bought Lee, and all the jungle guides basically run him wriggles into tank.
This isn't really very fun....are more damage assasin type builds really so shitty on him in the jungle? He has such absurd escapes that it seems like it would be strong...is his AD scaling shit or something?
If I was gonna build him like an assassin what would be good? Like Dblades bruta? Wriggles is really core it seems with all his free AS in the jungle. BT? What about tri?
the assassin build out of jungle is ghostblade and phage into tank items. Wriggles optional. You deal so much damage to jungle creeps with bruta it's really not neccesary.
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On November 29 2012 14:20 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2012 13:46 pschiu wrote:On November 29 2012 13:22 BlackPaladin wrote:On November 29 2012 12:56 wussleeQ wrote:On November 29 2012 12:51 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
vayne free week?
time to ban vayne for a week so my team doesn't pick her Is she really that hard to play? o.o Low range squishy AD carry. People are bad enough with champs like cait with 650 auto range. Or ashe with 600. Imagine someone bad playing an AD that is even squishier with less range. Now add onto that a really bad build (say, zeal -> LW cause they can't farm and "enemy team is stacking armor!"). Now on top of it all give said champ a movement ability (tumble) that bad players use to move INTO the enemy team instead of using it to kite, as well as an ability to save any enemy with low health. At least you see people getting LW cause "enemy team is stacking armor!" I have to keep nagging my AD carry allies to get LW when necessary instead of stuff like MBR. T.T LW is worse damage than a 2nd PD on a lot of champs. And is always less than an IE (if you went BT first or TF>BT). The only plausible reason for pros buying it so often (besides silliness) is that it gives you a faster powerspike (cheaper). IE>PD>LW is surprisingly non-ideal on a lot of AD Carries.
Standing dps is not exactly indicative of what is 'ideal' on an ADC. after you hit a certain base aspeed where you can kite effectively with your attack animation, further investment into aspeed is not very valuable, since ADC's spend far more time kiting than they do just standing and attacking. Therefore, after that first PD, it's much more worth your while to itemize for per-hit dmg than it is for dps.
this also ignores the benefits that LW gives to physical damage abilities.
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you can build bt first on lee jungle but i think its too squishy and your better off with wriggle/merc/hog/aegis build
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United States47024 Posts
On November 29 2012 11:11 Ketara wrote:
Liandry's Torment, Seraphs Embrace and Barrier will be real good on Xerath too. With all his passive armor the 2 shield actives will give him good defenses, and the Liandry+Rylai combo will give him flat mpen which will be awesome on him, lots of HP and add to his poke damage significantly.
I can see him being much better in S3.
Liandry's is going to be pretty meh on Xerath. He has no DoT abilities, and only a single-target stun to trigger the double damage on the proc. Honestly it's more likely that he'd leave Guise as Guise for the majority of the game.
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On Lee I like going boots -> dorans(usually 1) -> oracle(if they ward well) -> phage/wriggles (depending) -> aegis -> hexdrinker(if they have a lot of magic dmg) etc.
wriggles/oracles gives you so much dragon control... it's crazy. I guess what you build on him depends on your play-style.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 29 2012 10:34 cLutZ wrote:
I don't get this statement, because Heal CD's and costs are almost always greater than the CDs and costs of non-heals. Soraka W Spam Loses to Annie Q spam.Heals are objectively bad combat spells, but when engagements are small and interspersed they are very good. Essentially they are good out of combat spells.
That's the way they are NOW, and that's my point. They can't make them good combat spells without making them OP out of combat spells because the mana/cooldowns that are standard for how LoL plays aren't suitable to balancing non-sustain heals. A hero's base mana pool allows too many spell casts for you to make heals better than they are because they become abusable in the sustain case (pre-nerf Soraka). Likewise you can't adjust with cooldowns because practically speaking 30+ second CDs on non-ultimate skills is outside of what Riot likes to design.
Like, you could jack up the power of a healing spell to be pretty damn combat-effective if you could give it much higher low-level CDs or a mana cost such that your laning phase mana only affords you 3-4 casts of it (meaning that it's not abusable in the sustain case, but powerful in the burst damage case)--but nobody at Riot would consider that any fun.
On November 29 2012 15:19 Cr4zyH0r5e wrote:
On Lee I like going boots -> dorans(usually 1) -> oracle(if they ward well) -> phage/wriggles (depending) -> aegis -> hexdrinker(if they have a lot of magic dmg) etc.
wriggles/oracles gives you so much dragon control... it's crazy. I guess what you build on him depends on your play-style.
It's not playstyle, it's judging the gameflow based on champ select and how the first few minutes of the game go.
We've been through this before--Wriggles vs. 2DBlade isn't something that's set in stone. It depends on the game. Wriggle's is significantly better for a farmy game where you expect to kick in around the time of the first Dragon, whereas 2DBlade has higher cost-effectiveness than Wriggle's parts and therefore is much more powerful in early skirmishes that would happen before Wriggle's is completed. Even after Wriggle's is completed, 2DBlade+Bruta has stronger combat power until Wriggle's has farmed its first major item.
The mentality that you're going to have a cookie-cutter build even for selecting your first major item is something that players need to get out of their heads. It's more or less useful for learning the game, since you can reference alt-tab guides to quickly get an idea of how to play a champ, but honestly people really should ditch the cookie-cutter build mentality by the time they're level 30 (but they don't and it pervades all levels of play). At the point when you're somewhat familiar with all the items, you should be able to select the items when they're good rather than following cookie-cutter builds.
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On November 29 2012 14:28 sob3k wrote:
I just bought Lee, and all the jungle guides basically run him wriggles into tank.
This isn't really very fun....are more damage assasin type builds really so shitty on him in the jungle? He has such absurd escapes that it seems like it would be strong...is his AD scaling shit or something?
If I was gonna build him like an assassin what would be good? Like Dblades bruta? Wriggles is really core it seems with all his free AS in the jungle. BT? What about tri?
I talked about this a lot recently. You have to go wriggles>full tank to be relevant in the late game, but if you're feeling manly then you can go 2x dorans>Bloodthirster>etc. just like what froggen does. The issue here is that you're playing him jungle, so unless you're dominating the game, you don't have enough gold to do that. If you want to play AD caster lee like Froggen then middle really is the way to go. If you go half assed damage/some tank items you will be too weak to tank people properly in teamfights, so I really advise you to either go full caster build or full tank. (even as full tank you have a LOT of damage, it's pretty deceiving. But casting E on 3-5 people can be teamfight-breaking, and so can be a kick out of the teamfight or like interrupting kat ulti with it.)
Yeah. As people have said, 2x dorans and a Brutalizer makes you have a crazy mid game spike with Lee, but it's one you have to take advantage of. I prefer playing him tanky because I feel like he is better suited for utility and that he has enough damage to be a relevant threat anyway, but I'm not saying it's not viable. Just don't come crying that Lee's late game is atrocious.
Also, new jungle according to shake seems to have killed Lee. So... yeah.
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im in champ select with misaya and a gold from last season takes his mid LOL
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whats misaya's name in game
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United States47024 Posts
It was Misaya CN in S2, don't remember if he namechanged or anything.
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EPT
