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On November 22 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:02 wei2coolman wrote:On November 22 2012 04:16 OutlaW- wrote:
No, it's not hard to know. He's bad. I think so and so do many, many streamers, who frequently comment and laugh about it.
While your argument is correct to an extent, it's not entirely true. A good AD with a bad support won't be able to win his lane if he's playing against an adc who has a good support (this relies on the champions but is mostly true), but I never said that Cop is bad because he loses lane. Even if it were Elementz' fault that he lost lane (which I dare you to give me an example of where this is true because I've never seen it happen before), Cop should never, ever die. Losing lane means being behind on cs, dying is his own fault.
You can also look at aphromoo who plays tons of games with random supports and manages to win lane every single time. I guess this is going against my point at the top but it shows that you can overcome the badness of your support with skill.
Cop is bad in laning phase and I've never seen him carry a game, largely because of his mediocre positioning and game sense. Cop doesn't always buy phage, but when he does, he always procs it on the first shot. As far as CRS line up is concerned, bot lane wasn't really their problem. Their initial troubles was from bad top lane, and fairly limited mid lane (westrice, and nyjacky's small champ pool). With the replacement of westrice w/ voyboy, and the huge improvement by nyjacky, a lot of their main weaknesses was shored up. Cop and Elementz didn't always win lane, but they rarely got stomped that hard as well. Sure, cop's no DL, or Aphro, but is he competitive with other AD carries in the scene? especially in NA and EU? Yes, if anything he's probably above average AD carry in NA+EU scene. Elementz has shown a huge improvement in play, Chau-level support he's not, but I'd argue his champ pool and skills also mark up with the average NA+EU scene. The main problem with CRS isn't any "weaknesses", but it's more the lack of "Strengths". Yes, nyjacky is arguably the best mid NA right now, but he's no froggen. Voyboy is pretty fucking dominant in a top 1v1 island, but he's no maknoon. What they need is a player that can CARRY. HARD. Nyjacky is the closest thing they have to that, but as much as I love the dude, he's not carrying hard enough in majority of the games. The same can be said about Dignitas then. It's not like they have any kind of particularly "strength".
Dig's strength has been interesting lane choices and team synergy. Other teams have discovered this concept with TSM's Vlad/Kennen or Karthus/Kayle, CLG's Split+Poke, etc.
Dig hasn't been interesting since "In QTPIE we trust" protect the kog.
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I'm going to preface this comment by saying that I am in no way a fan of Curse and am normally rooting against them. I agree that Cop is the real problem with Curse's bottom lane and that there are no free agents to replace him with, but that doesn't mean a change needs to be made. Just because Rhux did well in a Solomid Invitational doesn't mean he's up to par with Elementz. I know they're just using IPL5 to test our Rhux in a high pressure LAN setting, but I really hope this decision bites Curse in the ass.
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On November 22 2012 05:47 Headshot wrote:
I'm going to preface this comment by saying that I am in no way a fan of Curse and am normally rooting against them. I agree that Cop is the real problem with Curse's bottom lane and that there are no free agents to replace him with, but that doesn't mean a change needs to be made. Just because Rhux did well in a Solomid Invitational doesn't mean he's up to par with Elementz. I know they're just using IPL5 to test our Rhux in a high pressure LAN setting, but I really hope this decision bites Curse in the ass.
That's assuming botlane is a problem though. Yes, obviously if you replace cop with doublelift, you're gunna get a better botlane, I don't think anyone is doubting that. But, the overall botlane of Curse isn't any worse than, Clg.eu's botlane (who people consider one of the best teams). So, it's not like it's necessarily the "limiting factor", in Crs's ability to win games.
Dig's major failure is Scarra. He went from being best mid NA to being outplayed even by Reginald.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 22 2012 05:54 wei2coolman wrote:
Dig's major failure is Scarra. He went from being best mid NA to being outplayed even by Reginald.
He also never really filled the big shoes of being Dig's captain.
Regi, for all his faults in his individual play, is probably the most successful captain on NA.
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On November 22 2012 05:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 04:28 OutlaW- wrote:
He's a league worse than Aphromoo Doublift and Imaqtpie who are all really, really good.
NA AD carries are a step above all the other roles. Cop is mediocre, and I have to close my eyes to call him even that.
If you read my first post, though, I agree with you. There are no good AD carries on the market right now and the easiest way to fix their bottom lane is to have a good support carry him. Hopefully Rhux can do it. lol You only say this because the main point of comparison is EU, and EU ADs aren't better while EU's other roles are.
Also because NA top mid and for the most part supports pale in comparison
olol thats what u said
i was also comparing to asians and to be honest I consider the 3 that I named better than any adcarry in EU
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On November 22 2012 05:44 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:On November 22 2012 05:02 wei2coolman wrote:On November 22 2012 04:16 OutlaW- wrote:
No, it's not hard to know. He's bad. I think so and so do many, many streamers, who frequently comment and laugh about it.
While your argument is correct to an extent, it's not entirely true. A good AD with a bad support won't be able to win his lane if he's playing against an adc who has a good support (this relies on the champions but is mostly true), but I never said that Cop is bad because he loses lane. Even if it were Elementz' fault that he lost lane (which I dare you to give me an example of where this is true because I've never seen it happen before), Cop should never, ever die. Losing lane means being behind on cs, dying is his own fault.
You can also look at aphromoo who plays tons of games with random supports and manages to win lane every single time. I guess this is going against my point at the top but it shows that you can overcome the badness of your support with skill.
Cop is bad in laning phase and I've never seen him carry a game, largely because of his mediocre positioning and game sense. Cop doesn't always buy phage, but when he does, he always procs it on the first shot. As far as CRS line up is concerned, bot lane wasn't really their problem. Their initial troubles was from bad top lane, and fairly limited mid lane (westrice, and nyjacky's small champ pool). With the replacement of westrice w/ voyboy, and the huge improvement by nyjacky, a lot of their main weaknesses was shored up. Cop and Elementz didn't always win lane, but they rarely got stomped that hard as well. Sure, cop's no DL, or Aphro, but is he competitive with other AD carries in the scene? especially in NA and EU? Yes, if anything he's probably above average AD carry in NA+EU scene. Elementz has shown a huge improvement in play, Chau-level support he's not, but I'd argue his champ pool and skills also mark up with the average NA+EU scene. The main problem with CRS isn't any "weaknesses", but it's more the lack of "Strengths". Yes, nyjacky is arguably the best mid NA right now, but he's no froggen. Voyboy is pretty fucking dominant in a top 1v1 island, but he's no maknoon. What they need is a player that can CARRY. HARD. Nyjacky is the closest thing they have to that, but as much as I love the dude, he's not carrying hard enough in majority of the games. The same can be said about Dignitas then. It's not like they have any kind of particularly "strength". Dig's strength has been interesting lane choices and team synergy. Other teams have discovered this concept with TSM's Vlad/Kennen or Karthus/Kayle, CLG's Split+Poke, etc. Dig hasn't been interesting since "In QTPIE we trust" protect the kog.
You mean like crumbz/IWD initiating when no one else was around.
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On November 22 2012 06:39 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:44 cLutZ wrote:On November 22 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:On November 22 2012 05:02 wei2coolman wrote:On November 22 2012 04:16 OutlaW- wrote:
No, it's not hard to know. He's bad. I think so and so do many, many streamers, who frequently comment and laugh about it.
While your argument is correct to an extent, it's not entirely true. A good AD with a bad support won't be able to win his lane if he's playing against an adc who has a good support (this relies on the champions but is mostly true), but I never said that Cop is bad because he loses lane. Even if it were Elementz' fault that he lost lane (which I dare you to give me an example of where this is true because I've never seen it happen before), Cop should never, ever die. Losing lane means being behind on cs, dying is his own fault.
You can also look at aphromoo who plays tons of games with random supports and manages to win lane every single time. I guess this is going against my point at the top but it shows that you can overcome the badness of your support with skill.
Cop is bad in laning phase and I've never seen him carry a game, largely because of his mediocre positioning and game sense. Cop doesn't always buy phage, but when he does, he always procs it on the first shot. As far as CRS line up is concerned, bot lane wasn't really their problem. Their initial troubles was from bad top lane, and fairly limited mid lane (westrice, and nyjacky's small champ pool). With the replacement of westrice w/ voyboy, and the huge improvement by nyjacky, a lot of their main weaknesses was shored up. Cop and Elementz didn't always win lane, but they rarely got stomped that hard as well. Sure, cop's no DL, or Aphro, but is he competitive with other AD carries in the scene? especially in NA and EU? Yes, if anything he's probably above average AD carry in NA+EU scene. Elementz has shown a huge improvement in play, Chau-level support he's not, but I'd argue his champ pool and skills also mark up with the average NA+EU scene. The main problem with CRS isn't any "weaknesses", but it's more the lack of "Strengths". Yes, nyjacky is arguably the best mid NA right now, but he's no froggen. Voyboy is pretty fucking dominant in a top 1v1 island, but he's no maknoon. What they need is a player that can CARRY. HARD. Nyjacky is the closest thing they have to that, but as much as I love the dude, he's not carrying hard enough in majority of the games. The same can be said about Dignitas then. It's not like they have any kind of particularly "strength". Dig's strength has been interesting lane choices and team synergy. Other teams have discovered this concept with TSM's Vlad/Kennen or Karthus/Kayle, CLG's Split+Poke, etc. Dig hasn't been interesting since "In QTPIE we trust" protect the kog. You mean like crumbz/IWD initiating when no one else was around.
I miss Jatt 
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On November 22 2012 05:34 Requizen wrote:This just kind of made me happy in my pants, not gonna lie.
Having an official API probably means we'll lose access to really cool unintentional 'API' data. (e.g. spec info for anyone you want, total amount of RP/IP earned).
Still, it seems like riot's really going to start tracking and exposing a lot of data, so that's pretty awesome all-around!
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Ugh. Exhaust is so fucking stupid. -_-
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K I'm gonna start queuing for dota and lol at the same time and see where I get a game first,these dodges and dcs are getting ridic.
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On November 22 2012 06:51 Kouda wrote:
Ugh. Exhaust is so fucking stupid. -_-
Hahaha. The best is when the enemy team has 3, and all 3 are used on you. Every. Single. Time. #toplanerproblems
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On November 22 2012 07:01 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 06:51 Kouda wrote:
Ugh. Exhaust is so fucking stupid. -_- Hahaha. The best is when the enemy team has 3, and all 3 are used on you. Every. Single. Time. #toplanerproblems
The true zen is finding peace in the fact that you eat every CC so your AD carry can win the game for you.
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What if you're the AD carry?
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United States47024 Posts
On November 22 2012 07:07 Alaric wrote:
What if you're the AD carry?
Then position better.
If you're eating all the CC, either you're supposed to or you're not positioning correctly. There's nothing inherently malicious about the other team using all their shit on you. Either they're supposed to, and they win because of it, or they're bad and you'll win because of it.
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On November 22 2012 07:07 Alaric wrote:
What if you're the AD carry?
Blame the support.
Disclaimer: Please don't actually blame your team mates, including the Support.
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On November 22 2012 07:07 Alaric wrote:
What if you're the AD carry?
Be DL and buy QSS/bring Cleanse every game.
Mercurial Scimitar best new item hue.
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By the way, are AS slows considered slows for the purpose of reduced slow masteries, cleanse, and effects of that kind?
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On November 22 2012 06:42 Xacez wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 06:39 Sufficiency wrote:On November 22 2012 05:44 cLutZ wrote:On November 22 2012 05:11 Sufficiency wrote:On November 22 2012 05:02 wei2coolman wrote:On November 22 2012 04:16 OutlaW- wrote:
No, it's not hard to know. He's bad. I think so and so do many, many streamers, who frequently comment and laugh about it.
While your argument is correct to an extent, it's not entirely true. A good AD with a bad support won't be able to win his lane if he's playing against an adc who has a good support (this relies on the champions but is mostly true), but I never said that Cop is bad because he loses lane. Even if it were Elementz' fault that he lost lane (which I dare you to give me an example of where this is true because I've never seen it happen before), Cop should never, ever die. Losing lane means being behind on cs, dying is his own fault.
You can also look at aphromoo who plays tons of games with random supports and manages to win lane every single time. I guess this is going against my point at the top but it shows that you can overcome the badness of your support with skill.
Cop is bad in laning phase and I've never seen him carry a game, largely because of his mediocre positioning and game sense. Cop doesn't always buy phage, but when he does, he always procs it on the first shot. As far as CRS line up is concerned, bot lane wasn't really their problem. Their initial troubles was from bad top lane, and fairly limited mid lane (westrice, and nyjacky's small champ pool). With the replacement of westrice w/ voyboy, and the huge improvement by nyjacky, a lot of their main weaknesses was shored up. Cop and Elementz didn't always win lane, but they rarely got stomped that hard as well. Sure, cop's no DL, or Aphro, but is he competitive with other AD carries in the scene? especially in NA and EU? Yes, if anything he's probably above average AD carry in NA+EU scene. Elementz has shown a huge improvement in play, Chau-level support he's not, but I'd argue his champ pool and skills also mark up with the average NA+EU scene. The main problem with CRS isn't any "weaknesses", but it's more the lack of "Strengths". Yes, nyjacky is arguably the best mid NA right now, but he's no froggen. Voyboy is pretty fucking dominant in a top 1v1 island, but he's no maknoon. What they need is a player that can CARRY. HARD. Nyjacky is the closest thing they have to that, but as much as I love the dude, he's not carrying hard enough in majority of the games. The same can be said about Dignitas then. It's not like they have any kind of particularly "strength". Dig's strength has been interesting lane choices and team synergy. Other teams have discovered this concept with TSM's Vlad/Kennen or Karthus/Kayle, CLG's Split+Poke, etc. Dig hasn't been interesting since "In QTPIE we trust" protect the kog. You mean like crumbz/IWD initiating when no one else was around. I miss Jatt
Yeah, i find Jatt and Lilballz my favourite (ex) NA players
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On November 22 2012 07:12 Requizen wrote:Be DL and buy QSS/bring Cleanse every game. Mercurial Scimitar best new item hue.
Mercurial is really interesting because you have to pay for the BF which makes it less attractive on mages which is Riot's way of preventing a large amount of easy MR itemisation in mage v mage confrontations. Also creates interesting itemisation paths if we see less AP mid duels in the future (although Wits End still good on many champs).
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EPT
