• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:06
CEST 08:06
KST 15:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection2Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th123Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League5Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double1
StarCraft 2
General
The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Soma's ASL Finals Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3706 users

[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 13

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 280 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 13 2012 07:01 GMT
#241
OK well, Athene's may not need a nerf, depending on how the new Archangel's Staff will be (sorry I forgot about it).

A while ago there was a problem that even Karthus builds DFG (pre DFG nerf). Now the problem is that every mana-hungry AP mid builds Athene's (even Karthus and Cassiopeia who do not need the CDR), because Tear of the Goddess is a far weaker item option compared to Chalice of Harmony.

In terms of solving the mana problem, Tear is definitely better than Chalice. But Chalice also provides MR and it builds into Athene's which provides even more MR and a whole bunch of other bonuses. Archangel's Staff is more of a glasscannon item that isn't even that great. I feel that Chalice is definitely not ideal on Karthus and Cassiopeia who can easily build Tear stacks, but Archangel's is so weak compared to Athene's that most players are opting to build Chalice.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
yenta
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Poland1142 Posts
November 13 2012 07:03 GMT
#242
On November 13 2012 15:55 BlackPaladin wrote:
Zed champion spotlight out...but this isn't supposed to be the zed patch? lol wtf riot.

A red was quoted as saying Zed will be available in 24 hours.
Trutacz Practice Discord - https://discord.gg/PWF7Pv
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 07:11:10
November 13 2012 07:07 GMT
#243
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
November 13 2012 07:16 GMT
#244
On November 13 2012 16:01 Sufficiency wrote:
OK well, Athene's may not need a nerf, depending on how the new Archangel's Staff will be (sorry I forgot about it).

A while ago there was a problem that even Karthus builds DFG (pre DFG nerf). Now the problem is that every mana-hungry AP mid builds Athene's (even Karthus and Cassiopeia who do not need the CDR), because Tear of the Goddess is a far weaker item option compared to Chalice of Harmony.

In terms of solving the mana problem, Tear is definitely better than Chalice. But Chalice also provides MR and it builds into Athene's which provides even more MR and a whole bunch of other bonuses. Archangel's Staff is more of a glasscannon item that isn't even that great. I feel that Chalice is definitely not ideal on Karthus and Cassiopeia who can easily build Tear stacks, but Archangel's is so weak compared to Athene's that most players are opting to build Chalice.


Archangels is actually quite a bit stronger(~NLR) than athene's for an endgame build including RoA(having both is awesome though), but the problem with that is the difference between a 600AP mage and a 700 AP mage isn't as extreme at that point in time, and with the current meta of more aggressive play, trading a much, much weaker early game for lategame power isn't that viable. I still do it from time to time on anivia, but only for farm lanes with a relatively weak mid & jungle.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 13 2012 07:22 GMT
#245
On November 13 2012 16:16 Amui wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:01 Sufficiency wrote:
OK well, Athene's may not need a nerf, depending on how the new Archangel's Staff will be (sorry I forgot about it).

A while ago there was a problem that even Karthus builds DFG (pre DFG nerf). Now the problem is that every mana-hungry AP mid builds Athene's (even Karthus and Cassiopeia who do not need the CDR), because Tear of the Goddess is a far weaker item option compared to Chalice of Harmony.

In terms of solving the mana problem, Tear is definitely better than Chalice. But Chalice also provides MR and it builds into Athene's which provides even more MR and a whole bunch of other bonuses. Archangel's Staff is more of a glasscannon item that isn't even that great. I feel that Chalice is definitely not ideal on Karthus and Cassiopeia who can easily build Tear stacks, but Archangel's is so weak compared to Athene's that most players are opting to build Chalice.


Archangels is actually quite a bit stronger(~NLR) than athene's for an endgame build including RoA(having both is awesome though), but the problem with that is the difference between a 600AP mage and a 700 AP mage isn't as extreme at that point in time, and with the current meta of more aggressive play, trading a much, much weaker early game for lategame power isn't that viable. I still do it from time to time on anivia, but only for farm lanes with a relatively weak mid & jungle.


Right. But the new active on Archangel's Staff might make it a better option for mana, especially on champions who spam a lot and do not rely heavily on CDR. We will see.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
volcryn
Profile Joined November 2010
United States149 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 07:29:57
November 13 2012 07:29 GMT
#246
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 07:38:39
November 13 2012 07:38 GMT
#247
Man, just watched the first game of OGN Winter rebroadcast, such an amazing game, now I feel really bad to miss all the OGN Winter games .
Gotta catch them all from now on!
Terran
ChaoSbringer
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia1382 Posts
November 13 2012 07:39 GMT
#248
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
November 13 2012 07:40 GMT
#249
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.


Meh, Power Rangers reference is much better anyway.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
November 13 2012 07:50 GMT
#250
On November 13 2012 16:01 Sufficiency wrote:
OK well, Athene's may not need a nerf, depending on how the new Archangel's Staff will be (sorry I forgot about it).

A while ago there was a problem that even Karthus builds DFG (pre DFG nerf). Now the problem is that every mana-hungry AP mid builds Athene's (even Karthus and Cassiopeia who do not need the CDR), because Tear of the Goddess is a far weaker item option compared to Chalice of Harmony.

In terms of solving the mana problem, Tear is definitely better than Chalice. But Chalice also provides MR and it builds into Athene's which provides even more MR and a whole bunch of other bonuses. Archangel's Staff is more of a glasscannon item that isn't even that great. I feel that Chalice is definitely not ideal on Karthus and Cassiopeia who can easily build Tear stacks, but Archangel's is so weak compared to Athene's that most players are opting to build Chalice.


Tear is also only gonna cost 700 so the money you spend on chalice can be used on tear, a few pots, and a ward.

I'm just annoyed that every time people find new build paths in this game Riot feels the need to step in and remove them.
Bwaaaa
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia969 Posts
November 13 2012 07:51 GMT
#251
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.

I thought it was something to do with borderlands.
Tal
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
United Kingdom1017 Posts
November 13 2012 07:58 GMT
#252
On flash, I agree that its great for clutch plays and helping keep lanes aggressive and interesting. But I really hate flash ults.
Particularly on someone like wukong or amumu, where they go 'flash, gap-closer, game-ending ult'. It's just no fun at all.
Maybe they could make flash put your ultimate on cooldown for 3 seconds, to give some chance to react.
It is what you read when you don't have to that determines what you will be when you can't help it.
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
November 13 2012 08:14 GMT
#253
On November 13 2012 16:51 Bwaaaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.

I thought it was something to do with borderlands.

No, it's a reference to the movie pulp fiction.
BADBADNOTGOOD
Profile Joined October 2012
England57 Posts
November 13 2012 08:15 GMT
#254
On November 13 2012 16:40 NEOtheONE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.


Meh, Power Rangers reference is much better anyway.


It's a Pulp Fiction reference. Zed is the name of the rapist in the pawn shop.

Way to ruin a cool looking champion Riot by giving him the same name as one of the most detestable characters in modern cinema...
www.leaguereactions.tumblr.com
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 08:19:45
November 13 2012 08:17 GMT
#255
On November 13 2012 16:01 Sufficiency wrote:
OK well, Athene's may not need a nerf, depending on how the new Archangel's Staff will be (sorry I forgot about it).

A while ago there was a problem that even Karthus builds DFG (pre DFG nerf). Now the problem is that every mana-hungry AP mid builds Athene's (even Karthus and Cassiopeia who do not need the CDR), because Tear of the Goddess is a far weaker item option compared to Chalice of Harmony.

In terms of solving the mana problem, Tear is definitely better than Chalice. But Chalice also provides MR and it builds into Athene's which provides even more MR and a whole bunch of other bonuses. Archangel's Staff is more of a glasscannon item that isn't even that great. I feel that Chalice is definitely not ideal on Karthus and Cassiopeia who can easily build Tear stacks, but Archangel's is so weak compared to Athene's that most players are opting to build Chalice.


Well the main issue is that prior to the dfg usability buff and the existence of athene's mages just built pure AP since CDR was so difficult to itemize for. Once DFG got buffed (to the point of being OP), it was king because it gave both CDR and straight out damage, both something that mages love. Now that it's been nerfed and athene's has been introduced, the trend has been towards more sustained damage via getting 39% CDR with blue buff rather than burst damage that comes from dcap/DFG first.

I don't think athene's is overpowered, it's the safest laning item for any AP mage at the moment besides RoA but is more applicable to a larger set of mages than RoA is.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 13 2012 08:25 GMT
#256
On November 13 2012 17:15 BADBADNOTGOOD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:40 NEOtheONE wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.


Meh, Power Rangers reference is much better anyway.


It's a Pulp Fiction reference. Zed is the name of the rapist in the pawn shop.

Way to ruin a cool looking champion Riot by giving him the same name as one of the most detestable characters in modern cinema...

Just imagine how satisfying you'll feel saying

ZED'S DEAD BABY, BARON TIME
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Cuddle
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden1345 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 08:45:43
November 13 2012 08:45 GMT
#257
The name is fine, Americans just pissed he's not named Zee.

I'll have to bind "/all Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead." to a macro button for easy access. It needs to be said...every time.
Eishi_Ki
Profile Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1667 Posts
November 13 2012 08:48 GMT
#258
On November 13 2012 17:15 BADBADNOTGOOD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 16:40 NEOtheONE wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:39 ChaoSbringer wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:29 volcryn wrote:
On November 13 2012 16:07 Dgiese wrote:
Please, someone say "who's zed?".
Noone?
Fuck it, I'm going to bed
+ Show Spoiler +
Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead



Lord Zedd of Mighty morphin power rangers

They were actually refering to a popular Electronic Dance Music artist called Zeds Dead.


Meh, Power Rangers reference is much better anyway.


It's a Pulp Fiction reference. Zed is the name of the rapist in the pawn shop.

Way to ruin a cool looking champion Riot by giving him the same name as one of the most detestable characters in modern cinema...


And to make it worse, looked like Matthew McConaghey
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
November 13 2012 09:00 GMT
#259
On November 13 2012 17:45 Cuddle wrote:
The name is fine, Americans just pissed he's not named Zee.

I'll have to bind "/all Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead." to a macro button for easy access. It needs to be said...every time.

really you should just be saying "Whose motorcycle is this?" and see where things go from there
Diderick
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands298 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-13 09:01:18
November 13 2012 09:00 GMT
#260
My sister just yesterday got a new boyfriend named Zed, kinda confusing all for me ;p but that on a sidenote, my question is does anyone have an idea when EUwest might come up again?
Prev 1 11 12 13 14 15 280 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Enki Epic Series #9
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft800
ProTech221
RuFF_SC2 112
Nina 58
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4720
Rain 3623
HiyA 114
Shinee 28
Bale 23
Noble 10
Icarus 6
League of Legends
JimRising 771
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King85
Other Games
summit1g5755
PiGStarcraft753
C9.Mang0423
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick543
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH272
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2033
• Lourlo1310
• Jankos1243
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 54m
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4h 54m
Maestros of the Game
9h 24m
The PondCast
1d 3h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 4h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 8h
Maestros of the Game
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Solar vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
GSL
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Maru vs Cure
Patches Events
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.