EPTIt introduces additional clutter into the game. Bad.
[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
It introduces additional clutter into the game. Bad. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
SilSol is now going to be 20% more effective. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Hopefully something like that would work for him, but it would probably be pretty OP. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:19 VirgilSC2 wrote: Can someone explain to me the problem with implementing a 7th "Ward Slot" that can't hold anything other than wards? Would make the game really boring since then every player can buy wards at no cost (ADC doens't have to sell dorans, etc) | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:17 Requizen wrote: The absorb would be a brilliant mechanic for Viktor, though. Once you reach a certain level/a certain amount of time after you buy the upgrade/after a certain amount of CS or whatever, your augment gets absorbed and it disappears from your inventory. Hopefully something like that would work for him, but it would probably be pretty OP. ...what? No. Doing something like that would mean they need to nerf him. Fuck that. As it is, the ONLY time Viktor falls off is at very very late game full item builds. And even then, he's strong. People complaining about him not having that extra slot don't actually realize how god damn efficient his death augment is throughout the entire game. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:30 jcarlsoniv wrote: ...what? No. Doing something like that would mean they need to nerf him. Fuck that. As it is, the ONLY time Viktor falls off is at very very late game full item builds. And even then, he's strong. People complaining about him not having that extra slot don't actually realize how god damn efficient his death augment is throughout the entire game. Well, that's just always the complaint. Wouldn't you be happy if your champion could pay 1000g to become even more of a monster late late game? It's not like enough people even play him where he'd become FotM for a long time. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
EDIT: Not every champion needs to become FOTM at some point. Zzitai played Viktor vs WE, and although they lost the game, it wasn't because of Viktor falling off (it was a very close game). He's definitely a viable champ, just not popular for whatever reason. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:35 Requizen wrote: Well, that's just always the complaint. Wouldn't you be happy if your champion could pay 1000g to become even more of a monster late late game? It's not like enough people even play him where he'd become FotM for a long time. No. You're suggesting that we take a balanced champion and make them overpowered because of misguided player perception. Only the most short-sighted of Viktor fans would be happy about that. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:09 wei2coolman wrote: The fact that it absorbs into champion is fucking full retard. When is riot going to understand, some times strong cost efficiency can out weigh slot efficiency. Exactly. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what supports need. Supports have low income. They can't afford to get things that are cost-inefficient but slot-efficient because they aren't going to finish that many items, but don't have gold to waste. Items slated for supports should be cost-efficient but slot-inefficient, because they will be good, but impractical for non-supports to get (because the slot-inefficiency becomes prohibitive for non-supports very quickly mid/late-game). On November 09 2012 03:17 xes wrote: A better solution to support items being slot inefficient to prevent everyone buying, but also giving them room for wards would be like a support wriggles. Takes up a slot but still gives you wards, say it builds up to a max of N in T time similar to teemo shrooms or corki bombs Support items SHOULD be slot-inefficient. Because supports have a better time dealing with slot-inefficiency simply by nature of the fact that they have less gold, period. On November 09 2012 03:19 VirgilSC2 wrote: Can someone explain to me the problem with implementing a 7th "Ward Slot" that can't hold anything other than wards? Because ward vs. 6th item is an important, non-trivial mechanic lategame. Having to choose between wards and a 6th item is an important choice lategame. People advocating for a ward slot are lazy and don't want to think lategame--they just want to have their cake and eat it too. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
A way they could appease the viktor complainers would be to give an upgrade to the upgraded augments, that is very cost inefficient (maybe you can add a second augment's stats to your original for 2000g?) edit: and then gain a hidden passive where if he kills jayce after level 16 he can get all three augments in a single item huehue | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On November 09 2012 03:52 Requizen wrote: To be fair, I also haven't seen a Viktor in game (other than like the 2 times I played him) for months now, so I leave it up to you guys who know more about him than me.. I just knew that the slot was something that people used to complain about, thought it would be a cool interaction. It's more annoying when your build revolves around drings (quickly slot-starved, I have to stop buying wards in the midgame unless I sell a ring because of the components, or I just cut corners with my items and then I lose on his midgame power) than late game actually. It's... well, think of it as "I'd like a bit more of X' rather than "I really wish I didn't have the augment", come late game. "The slow from rylai would be cool / if I had void staff I'd do more damage to the tanks / with Grail I could poke more". Swain's a bit like that I think because there are so much AP items that are good on him, that 6 slots isn't enough. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:02 TheYango wrote: Support items SHOULD be slot-inefficient. Because supports have a better time dealing with slot-inefficiency simply by nature of the fact that they have less gold, period. Because ward vs. 6th item is an important, non-trivial mechanic lategame. Having to choose between wards and a 6th item is an important choice lategame. People advocating for a ward slot are lazy and don't want to think lategame--they just want to have their cake and eat it too. I believe Xyph's motive was to allow supports to go to 6 items instead of 5 items + wards. So incorporating wards stock into the item would be a better solution to the problem being addressed instead of making an item that every champion can use. I'm not arguing that ward slot inefficiency IS indeed a problem though. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:08 xes wrote: I believe Xyph's motive was to allow supports to go to 6 items instead of 5 items + wards. So incorporating wards stock into the item would be a better solution to the problem being addressed instead of making an item that every champion can use. I'm not arguing that ward slot inefficiency IS indeed a problem though. Since when has that ever been a problem for supports though? 2xgp10+boots+2 aura items->build gp10s into things. How often is it that you finish ALL of that in a game as a support? It's not all that often that a support gets so late into the game that they need to decide between the 6th item and the wards. He's trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On November 09 2012 04:02 TheYango wrote: Exactly. It's the exact OPPOSITE of what supports need. Supports have low income. They can't afford to get things that are cost-inefficient but slot-efficient because they aren't going to finish that many items, but don't have gold to waste. Items slated for supports should be cost-efficient but slot-inefficient, because they will be good, but impractical for non-supports to get (because the slot-inefficiency becomes prohibitive for non-supports very quickly mid/late-game). Support items SHOULD be slot-inefficient. Because supports have a better time dealing with slot-inefficiency simply by nature of the fact that they have less gold, period. Another issue i have with this item is that it's not even that great for support. Even in modern meta play, supports are starting to get hog before philo, meaning supports are finding that upfront stats, are way more useful in botlane play, than sustain. so all the sustain stats this gives, although pretty good, isn't exactly what a support needs. Sure, there's the 20% cdr on clairvoyance/revive/heal. Of which no support takes anymore. Heal is relegated to ADC (and even adc's are not running heal anymore). Revive is still useless. Clairvoyance, is a great skill, but the strength in clairvoyance is in its super early game (lvl 1 fights, and lvl 2-3 invades), and lategame (when everyone has oracles and the game is close, ergo anyone can get baron). The long cd on current clairvoyance only affects its early game, late game (engagements happen every few minutes, when Clairvoyance is always off CD for key baron engagements or objectives). So you're not gettign this item til mid game, so its strength in early game doesn't get magnified at all. Still relegating clairvoyance to a pretty much useless summoner until lategame (where the 20% cdr isn't really that useful). Also, you're delaying shurelya's and aotl, and what not, to get this item. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
They should just spill the beans on everything they're planning instead of releasing tidbits one at a time so we can try to apply them to the context of the game as of s2 and drawing wrong conclusions :< | ||
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