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[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page…

Forum Index > LoL General
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seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9803 Posts
November 06 2012 21:43 GMT
#4461
they both went 9/21/0
boomer hands
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 06 2012 21:43 GMT
#4462
Battlefury also gives mana regen, which is more important in dota.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 06 2012 21:49 GMT
#4463
On November 07 2012 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:
The problem with Tiamat is that it offers no synergistic stats, other than damage + cleave. But the cleave area is such shit, that there's no synergy. (in case you don't know what i mean by synergy, look at items like BT, where lifesteal + damage is a great synergy item, more damage also means more life taken. Attack speed + crit chance (PD), more rolls (attacks), leads to more crits overall, or AS + onhit effect (more on hit due to more attack speed). Tiamat offers flat cost efficient stats, but none of these are synergistic, thus meaning the summation of stats are non-cost efficient stats. Changing splash on tiamat is only part of the problem, Riot needs to add stats that increases its synergy with a splash change.

It's lane sustain stats + farming power. It's synergistic in the sense that regen stats allow you to stay on lane, when your M.O. with Tiamat should be to stay on lane and farm until 2-3 further items.

The problem is the item isn't ACTUALLY good at farming because the cleave sucks.
Moderator
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
November 06 2012 21:50 GMT
#4464
Speaking of which,I have an extra dota 2 key which I didn't even know of so if someone wants it shoot me a pm.
Cackle™
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9803 Posts
November 06 2012 21:56 GMT
#4465
On November 07 2012 06:50 TheKefka wrote:
Speaking of which,I have an extra dota 2 key which I didn't even know of so if someone wants it shoot me a pm.

^^ x2
boomer hands
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 06 2012 21:58 GMT
#4466
On November 07 2012 06:33 Abenson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 06:27 TheYango wrote:
On November 07 2012 05:56 overt wrote:
I'm kind of worried about the item overhaul. I'm sure it'll be wonky at first and get balanced out but I am a little concerned that some of the items that are rarely built will just get removed. Frankly, Tiamat for example may be awful but sometimes it is a hilarious item to build and I'd hate for Riot to just take it out of the game.

Honestly I think Tiamat could be easily fixable to be a useful niche item, with some alterations to the cleave. The item is cost-effective for stats, it's just that the cleave is designed in such a way that it's downright worthless.

First is that the cleave shape needs to be different. A circular cleave around the target is downright useless when the item specifically is more slated toward melee users because a lot of the cleave AoE will just be on/around the champion model. Even if it had the exact same AoE, a cone shaped cleave that splashes forward from the attack target would be a LOT more usable than the current circular shape.

The second is that the AoE just needs to be bigger. You can trade off for a smaller cleave %, but the AoE right now is too small. This isn't even necessarily for its combat effectiveness--part of the ostensible usefulness of an AoE splash item is going to be as a farming/pushing item, and if you can't get the splash to hit multiple creeps if they shift around a bit, you're going to have a rough time using it.


Based off of my limited knowledge of Dota/LoL, I'm guessing Tiamat is supposed to be the battlefury equivalent of LoL. What i'm wondering is why Battlefury is built so often on carries in dota and almost never built at all in LoL? What is the difference.


Most carries that go Battlefuy in Dota lack AoE or wave clearing abilities and are melee. They generally have high mobility though and with the way the jungle is in Dota it allows a carry to access a lot more farm if they can clear wave then head into. I think even if Tiamat was a nicer cleave area it still wouldn't matter since you not really accessing any more farm with the cleave in LoL because the jungle isn't as profitable and easily accessed.
dottycakes
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada548 Posts
November 06 2012 22:01 GMT
#4467
Am I allowed to ask if someone can raise my elo for the Janna skin in here?

I always end up having not enough time to play and my elo decayed from 1700 to 1400. It's cool that they set the rewards based on the top rating, but they reset the top rating too. Goddammit, both seasons I get to miss these virtual rewards yo.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:02 GMT
#4468
On November 07 2012 06:43 thenexusp wrote:
If there's one silver lining on tiamat being weak all this time it's that riot never felt the need to make its passive a unique passive (like sunfire cape)

tiamat stacking is still hilarious

sup Fiora Ulti
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 22:12:14
November 06 2012 22:11 GMT
#4469
On November 07 2012 06:58 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 06:33 Abenson wrote:
On November 07 2012 06:27 TheYango wrote:
On November 07 2012 05:56 overt wrote:
I'm kind of worried about the item overhaul. I'm sure it'll be wonky at first and get balanced out but I am a little concerned that some of the items that are rarely built will just get removed. Frankly, Tiamat for example may be awful but sometimes it is a hilarious item to build and I'd hate for Riot to just take it out of the game.

Honestly I think Tiamat could be easily fixable to be a useful niche item, with some alterations to the cleave. The item is cost-effective for stats, it's just that the cleave is designed in such a way that it's downright worthless.

First is that the cleave shape needs to be different. A circular cleave around the target is downright useless when the item specifically is more slated toward melee users because a lot of the cleave AoE will just be on/around the champion model. Even if it had the exact same AoE, a cone shaped cleave that splashes forward from the attack target would be a LOT more usable than the current circular shape.

The second is that the AoE just needs to be bigger. You can trade off for a smaller cleave %, but the AoE right now is too small. This isn't even necessarily for its combat effectiveness--part of the ostensible usefulness of an AoE splash item is going to be as a farming/pushing item, and if you can't get the splash to hit multiple creeps if they shift around a bit, you're going to have a rough time using it.


Based off of my limited knowledge of Dota/LoL, I'm guessing Tiamat is supposed to be the battlefury equivalent of LoL. What i'm wondering is why Battlefury is built so often on carries in dota and almost never built at all in LoL? What is the difference.


Most carries that go Battlefuy in Dota lack AoE or wave clearing abilities and are melee. They generally have high mobility though and with the way the jungle is in Dota it allows a carry to access a lot more farm if they can clear wave then head into. I think even if Tiamat was a nicer cleave area it still wouldn't matter since you not really accessing any more farm with the cleave in LoL because the jungle isn't as profitable and easily accessed.


TP also lets DotA carries farm multiple lanes and jungle at the same time, which is facilitated by AOE clearing. Basically impossible in LoL.

You can also get teammates/controlled jungle creeps to stack jungle camps and ancients and then farm multiple jungle camps at once.

On November 07 2012 06:43 Sufficiency wrote:
Battlefury also gives mana regen, which is more important in dota.


No one ever gets a Battle Fury for the mana regen lol.
TranslatorBaa!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
November 06 2012 22:12 GMT
#4470
The thing is there are very clearly a few champs in the game that want AoE farming ability and would use the item. Regardless of all the other differences you could raise. It wouldn't be as ubiquitous as Battle Fury, but it would fill a niche.
Moderator
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-06 22:14:44
November 06 2012 22:14 GMT
#4471
wow at barrier into normal games
holy shit

full health jungle clear np
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
Antyee
Profile Joined May 2011
Hungary1011 Posts
November 06 2012 22:18 GMT
#4472
Pbe is not working correctly.
Don't bother logging in.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

After the timer goes down, it just stays on the pre-game lobby...
"My spoon is too big."
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
November 06 2012 22:31 GMT
#4473
On November 07 2012 07:14 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
wow at barrier into normal games
holy shit

full health jungle clear np


they'd probably adjust numbers/increase cd?
TranslatorBaa!
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
November 06 2012 22:40 GMT
#4474
On November 07 2012 07:31 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 07:14 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
wow at barrier into normal games
holy shit

full health jungle clear np


they'd probably adjust numbers/increase cd?

I would say at least 180 sec CD.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
November 06 2012 22:40 GMT
#4475
Or make Barrier not work on minions and/or jungle creeps
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
November 06 2012 22:41 GMT
#4476
http://clgaming.net/live/7390-imaqtpie-playing-draven
Imaqtpie is streaming :o
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
November 06 2012 22:48 GMT
#4477
On November 07 2012 06:49 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 06:42 wei2coolman wrote:
The problem with Tiamat is that it offers no synergistic stats, other than damage + cleave. But the cleave area is such shit, that there's no synergy. (in case you don't know what i mean by synergy, look at items like BT, where lifesteal + damage is a great synergy item, more damage also means more life taken. Attack speed + crit chance (PD), more rolls (attacks), leads to more crits overall, or AS + onhit effect (more on hit due to more attack speed). Tiamat offers flat cost efficient stats, but none of these are synergistic, thus meaning the summation of stats are non-cost efficient stats. Changing splash on tiamat is only part of the problem, Riot needs to add stats that increases its synergy with a splash change.

It's lane sustain stats + farming power. It's synergistic in the sense that regen stats allow you to stay on lane, when your M.O. with Tiamat should be to stay on lane and farm until 2-3 further items.

The problem is the item isn't ACTUALLY good at farming because the cleave sucks.


my tiamat stacking poppy build was super pro. SUPER PRO.
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
November 06 2012 22:49 GMT
#4478
Holyballs Draven GO
Fuck. How am I supposed to reach gold if I slack watching streams? It's yesterday evening all over agaiiiiiiiiiiiiiin Shake be hated.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
TheHumanSensation
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1210 Posts
November 06 2012 22:51 GMT
#4479
Clearly barrier's strength needs to scale based on how much time you spend in a lane.
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
November 06 2012 22:51 GMT
#4480
Didn't watch whole game but that was some nice fighting on Draven there. Also how come so many LoL streamers always have companions on voip. If I start streaming LoL will I get a companion too
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