EPT[Patch 1.0.0.148: Kha'Zix] General Discussion - Page 73
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Nikon
Bulgaria5710 Posts
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
On October 02 2012 18:38 spinesheath wrote: Kat's first few levels are really weak. If she doesn't get bullied at level 1-3, then yes, she is a strong laner. But since she is melee, there are quite a bunch of champs who can abuse that weakness. Yeah, you really have to rune/master-ize to make up for some of this weekness (get some ad from masteries e.g.). Never be stingy on pots, don't get hit by skillsshot and just survive until 4, when you can start manhandle people. Then there are champs like Akali and Fiddles that will just always out trade you, no matter the level. I guess Ryze would be a terrible matchup at higher ELO than mine because the lane phase depends on Ryze using Q for harass and harass only. If that's the case, Kat can't trade or can't cs, your choice. So far, almost all Ryzes I meet are terrified and I can bully them into using Q to cs. vs. Diana I really think you can do well as Kat if you get good at anticipating her skillshot and wait for her to use the interrupt before you ult. If she doesn't use it, just QEW (avoiding her crescent) and get out. Repeat 8 secs later. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On October 02 2012 18:32 TheYango wrote: Then you think about it and realize that with Diana, you could slap together whatever for lanes, and still probably end up with 2-3 "game-breaking combos" anyway by virtue of her E. Most champs have a few specific pairs that form those kinds of insane interactions, but Diana does it with a ridiculous fraction of the champ pool. I think you are forgetting about orianna here, who is way better at doing this and does not have to jump into 5 ppl to set up for a strong AoE combo. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:18 clickrush wrote: I think you are forgetting about orianna here, who is way better at doing this and does not have to jump into 5 ppl to set up for a strong AoE combo. the whole point is diana can do this stuff as well as be a brutal assassin and scale excellently and be durable and be mobile and be uncounterable in lane | ||
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On October 02 2012 18:40 UniversalSnip wrote: I've been thinking about it and I'm really unhappy with the champions riot has been releasing lately. The power levels have just been so inconsistent and some of them are really painful to play against. Darius: Incredibly unfun to play against, blatantly broken on release. I feel like the number of yorick level "this fucking sucks" champs doubled when he came out. Jayce: Really...? Such a non-interactive kit. It's the same as the old designs where melees would deal damage and block counterplay with huge, free shields or heals, except this time it's tons of disengage that costs no mana instead. Here's another guy that's fucking lame to lane against, at least he's only teir 2 or 3 in obnoxiousness and he can't use Bore to Tears if you're in a different lane. They didn't really peg his power on release either, expecting another nerf. Zyra: No complaints about the champ... just they completely whiffed the release balance... again. Before this list you have to go back to graves to find a champ that was released ridiculously broken, or maybe naut if you're a huge wuss. Diana: Released pretty op. has some role confusion but I don't hate her like I do the next release, everyone can agree she's tolerable at worst. Rengar: lol. King of this list. This guy went straight up to number 1 on my toxicity charts, playing rengar's top target is probably the most unfun experience you can consistently have in this game. Why would a champion like this exist?! The difficulty finding the counterplay required to even survive vs this guy is insane! Shutting him down is another story entirely. If you've had the Rengar Experience you know exactly what i'm talking about, it's just indisputable that he never should have made it to release with this skill set. Syndra: Thank you riot! I'm so glad this hero breaks the pattern, you have no idea. I probably whine less about balance than 90% of the regular posters here, but this shit cannot stand. The more I think about it the more the last couple months have made the game substantially worse for me. I just do not want to play hoping an increasing number of champions don't show up so that I can have a good time. While I'd tend to agree with you, I remember close to the end of last year people were saying the same thing, around the time Talon-Graves-Xerath were released in quick succession. Riot did nerf all three into being at least not obnoxious, if not necessarily viable. I think there's a number of champions, like Xerath and Darius and Yorick, that simply need to be obnoxious to be viable. Xerath is all about being able to shred opponents from waaay far away. If he's strong enough (and when he was) to reliably do that, he's going to be incredibly painful to play against. When he isn't, like now, he's not a very good pick. (Nice thing about LoL is that describes maybe 10% of the champion pool. Gotta get my dig in, from what I've seen/played of DotA/DotA 2 that's more like 90%.) My disappointment is that riot is still trying to release close to two champions a month. It's simply too frequent, and needs to slow down. Maybe riot should consider somehow limiting the number of champions usable in ranked (maybe down to 50-60 out of the total pool), though that would come with its own host of problems. Plus they would never do it. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:18 clickrush wrote: I think you are forgetting about orianna here, who is way better at doing this and does not have to jump into 5 ppl to set up for a strong AoE combo. Orianna needs a melee with a strong gap closer to carry the ball in or an initiating stun to set her up. You can't throw the ball in blind and expect to get anyone. Diana does it by herself because if she jumps your AD carry, you are FORCED to engage and peel her. As a drafter, needing only 1 pick to make it work is VERY different from needing 2. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:18 clickrush wrote: I think you are forgetting about orianna here, who is way better at doing this and does not have to jump into 5 ppl to set up for a strong AoE combo. Problem with Diana is just that she sets up alone and insantly and you don't see her comming alot of times.As soon as she blinks in she can E and you have no time to react with a silence or something similar.Oriana is way more predictable because she can't just run around from the side without protection and try to ult people. Apart from that I don't think she is any more of a problem than teleport galio was and people managed.Press R to win comps are fine and well but you only have one chance to blow up and if it fails and you don't do enough damage you will loose in a longer fight. There is a time in the game where the powercurve of these comps is insanely strong and it appears broken,but if you manage to survive long enough and suddenly your carry has a GA on your team and the tanks and bruisers don't just die simply to AoE,the team with more sustained damage and peel will win. I think champions is anivia are very good against this,because she can create a stalemate under towers and either force a engage from the enemy team under it,or leave enough breathing room for when the power of these comps subsides and the carry manages to farm up a GA. Diana falls off later in the game as well,ad carrys with proper peel and proper peel become unbearable for her to even come near. There was a game not to long ago with,I'm not sure if it was M5 or that westdoor guy or what ever his name is,of a farmed diana that had like 600 cs and wrecked people,but the game suddenly became so long and with a full build she couldn't do enough damage compared to a farmed morde I think it was. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:27 TheKefka wrote: Problem with Diana is just that she sets up alone and insantly and you don't see her comming alot of times.As soon as she blinks in she can E and you have no time to react with a silence or something similar.Oriana is way more predictable because she can't just run around from the side without protection and try to ult people. Apart from that I don't think she is any more of a problem than teleport galio was and people managed.Press R to win comps are fine and well but you only have one chance to blow up and if it fails and you don't do enough damage you will loose in a longer fight. There is a time in the game where the powercurve of these comps is insanely strong and it appears broken,but if you manage to survive long enough and suddenly your carry has a GA on your team and the tanks and bruisers don't just die simply to AoE,the team with more sustained damage and peel will win. I think champions is anivia are very good against this,because she can create a stalemate under towers and either force a engage from the enemy team under it,or leave enough breathing room for when the power of these comps subsides and the carry manages to farm up a GA. Having 4 strong AoE teamfight heroes that can dictate the midgame tempo does not prohibit the last one being a 4-protects-1 capable carry that secures the lategame. If you have to run around defending towers at the pace of that team while their AD gets to freefarm wherever they want, you're not going to weather the storm and win lategame because you'll be facing a 6-item AD carry. TP Galio was more or less limited by his TP CD. Diana's E and R are on CDs where not only will they be up every fight--they will often be up multiple times in ONE fight. On October 02 2012 19:27 TheKefka wrote: There was a game not to long ago with,I'm not sure if it was M5 or that westdoor guy or what ever his name is,of a farmed diana that had like 600 cs and wrecked people,but the game suddenly became so long and with a full build she couldn't do enough damage compared to a farmed morde I think it was. If that was an arranged game, I would consider that a failure to allocate farm correctly. Why the fuck would you allocate 600 CS to a hero that you know isn't going to be more effective with that farm than your AD carry lategame? If it was a solo queue game then it means nothing. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:27 TheKefka wrote: There was a game not to long ago with,I'm not sure if it was M5 or that westdoor guy or what ever his name is,of a farmed diana that had like 600 cs and wrecked people,but the game suddenly became so long and with a full build she couldn't do enough damage compared to a farmed morde I think it was. If that was an arranged game, I would consider that a failure to allocate farm correctly. Why the fuck would you allocate 600 CS to a hero that you know isn't going to be more effective with that farm than your AD carry lategame? If it was a solo queue game then it means nothing. Na it was a team game,I think it was like an hour long game and everyone was almost full items. I would really like to find the game but I don't remmeber who was playing,if someone could remember the game please post it because I think it shows really well what I'm talking about. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:36 TheKefka wrote: No but I'm saying that in a long fight you're 6 item carry will win against theirs if their team is centered around hard engage and blowing up and you have really good peel and sustained damage.Ultimatelly it just comes down to positioning and how much damage the aoe comp can do. It won't be 6 items vs. 6 items because Diana's teamfight advantage midgame puts pressure on the enemy team's farming space. If you have to group up to defend towers due to not being able to win fights on open ground, you lose out on CS because of how much further the enemy gets to freely push their creep waves. CSing off of defending tower pushes inherently yields lower returns than being able to free-push lanes deep, then collecting the big waves when they push back to you. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
I was one of the few that advocated playing her mid in the first place since she came out,so I understand the terror which she is. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
obnoxious means annoying to play against i dont really get what you're saying | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Not only that, but I can't but feel that people don't REALLY want to balance OP with OP. Yorick is the ONLY champ with that "Overpowered" sustain, theoretically a perfect example what a champion should be like under this philosophy, yet he is constantly bitched about to no end. Or Alistar, with his "Overpowered" early camping, that everyone whines SO MUCH about, that Riot was forced to nerf his camp way too flipping hard. | ||
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Leonite7
Ireland921 Posts
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On October 02 2012 18:59 Nikon wrote: What's up with these Honour thingamajigs? What do they do? Nothing They are supposed to make you feel fuzzy and warm inside. | ||
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