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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:07 TheYango wrote: Vayne could AoE farm if any of the items that should be AoE farm items were actually good enough at it to be worth buying (Spark, Tiamat). Sunfire is aoe damage too. But hopefully the item overhaul will bring some good new stuff into the game. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
crabgot will return someday, and with a vengeance | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
if you use urgot you must shot rocketS! | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:11 gtrsrs wrote: robocrab only way to play urgot if you use urgot you must shot rocketS! I have every skin for Urgot and yet cannot use him worth a dick and so I never play him. Riot #1 business model. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
If you're proficient with Urgot, you should still be able to roll laning phase. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:07 TheYango wrote: Vayne could AoE farm if any of the items that should be AoE farm items were actually good enough at it to be worth buying (Spark, Tiamat). Those would be a waste of a item on Vayne unless they were OP for other champs ADCs because she is the most single-target-focused of the ADCs because of Silver Bolts. My point being is, all things equal, Vayne should be behind, and will have a hard time catching up because: 1. Cant farm as well as nearly any other ADC during a tower seige. 2. Can't quickly farm a top/bot to catchup the way others can. In fact, Vayne is probably the worst ADC at both of those. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:26 cLutZ wrote: Those would be a waste of a item on Vayne unless they were OP for other champs ADCs because she is the most single-target-focused of the ADCs because of Silver Bolts. My point being is, all things equal, Vayne should be behind, and will have a hard time catching up because: 1. Cant farm as well as nearly any other ADC during a tower seige. 2. Can't quickly farm a top/bot to catchup the way others can. In fact, Vayne is probably the worst ADC at both of those. Solution: Sunfire cape Vayne! Vayne is weak at farming minions but probably the best AD carry at farming champions if she can snowball. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:26 cLutZ wrote: Those would be a waste of a item on Vayne unless they were OP for other champs ADCs because she is the most single-target-focused of the ADCs because of Silver Bolts. That logic doesn't make any sense. If the item is balanced around its farming power, then the item is weaker for heroes that don't need its farming power, not stronger. As of right now, Spark and Tiamat aren't balanced around their farming power because their farming power isn't really notable. | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:33 Morfildur wrote: Solution: Sunfire cape Vayne! Vayne is weak at farming minions but probably the best AD carry at farming champions if she can snowball. Obviously the best way to let your ad carry farm better is AoE dmg. However, Tiamat > Sunfire cape, so therefore the solution | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On October 11 2012 05:33 Morfildur wrote: Solution: Sunfire cape Vayne! Vayne is weak at farming minions but probably the best AD carry at farming champions if she can snowball. When is this snowballing going to occur? Assuming everything being equal, of course. In other words, "skill" and "viable" are not answers. | ||
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little fancy
Germany2504 Posts
Starting from this, the next deciding factor is the metagame, read: how the game is played at the top level of play. Seeing how aggressively top teams fight each other these days, it's only natural that the ADs that have a strong laning presence + do not require 'too much gold' to be effective mid game (ofc ADs scale the best with gold, but some need only 1 big item to do their job midgame while others' damage is barely noticed) and don't scale too badly into the lategame are preferred and the most popular. If there was a team that can stall out aggressive playstyle and constantly make it into the lategame while not falling too far behind (CLG.eu's style comes to mind), we would see a lot more play for let's say Ashe or Trist who are the 'real' lategame carries (if Ashe gets her IE+PD+LW and you didn't lose your inhibs already, you have a very good shot at winning the game). Unfortunately, this would cause the meta to change again (passive farm fest like a year and a half ago when supports healed so much that missing cs for harass was a huge drawback and counterjungling was rarely an issue) and result in another holy trinity of ADs. I fucking LOVE Ashe (which is why I was such a big fan of ex-Fnatic Lamia before he announced to retire; he played a very nice Ashe penta killing oldschool style), but when not only my solo queue mates moan at me for picking her but my premade team, too (my support is like "meh Ashe so boring I want action bot lane pls change to *insertrandomstandardpickhere*"), I don't see a change coming in the near future. I think we will all be pretty tired tonight / this evening when just another Ezreal vs. Corki lane is played in the worlds' semi finals and that's why many people think the ADs are not balanced (ok, Ez is a little too strong so he gets nerfed next patch like Morello confirmend and I personally think that Caitlyn might need a small tweak to be on par with the rest), but the boring picks are a result of the metagame's needs and not because the ADs are unbalanced in general, so it doesn't make too much sense to try and categorize them. | ||
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swim224
Botswana368 Posts
Suprise Suprise Edit: how the hell do I embed videos lol. Edit2: SUCCESS | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:00 swim224 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsifOwVcvVY Suprise Suprise Edit: how the hell do I embed videos lol. You paste the link and TL will generally auto-embed it, I have no idea why it's not working Example: random link off of youtube | ||
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swim224
Botswana368 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:09 Lmui wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 11 2012 07:00 swim224 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsifOwVcvVY Suprise Suprise Edit: how the hell do I embed videos lol. You paste the link and TL will generally auto-embed it, I have no idea why it's not working Example: random link off of youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCtPJMP1NFI&feature=g-vrec Ok, got it! If the link already had an embedded feature, it didn't work. Just had to erase part of the link. Thanks though! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 11 2012 06:25 little fancy wrote: If there was a team that can stall out aggressive playstyle and constantly make it into the lategame while not falling too far behind (CLG.eu's style comes to mind), we would see a lot more play for let's say Ashe or Trist who are the 'real' lategame carries (if Ashe gets her IE+PD+LW and you didn't lose your inhibs already, you have a very good shot at winning the game). Unfortunately, this would cause the meta to change again (passive farm fest like a year and a half ago when supports healed so much that missing cs for harass was a huge drawback and counterjungling was rarely an issue) and result in another holy trinity of ADs. I don't know why people think in LoL having a lategame with slow midgame development means the other 4 team members have to farm passively. Typically in DotA it's the opposite--a strong lategame carry that is weak midgame requires midgame semicarries/gankers that are able to keep control of the tempo rather than just being passive. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
On October 11 2012 04:14 TheYango wrote: Tristana pairs well with aggressive supports. She just has a hole in her teamfighting ability midgame that picks up drastically after she starts completing major items. Trist is probably the weirdest one in that group. I put her in there because explosive shot naturally pushes the wave so you kinda need the right early game to not put yourself behind, even though she has good burst. Wasn't someone here talking about going Trist Q first, which gives her power in the mid game but sacrifices the early game burst? I think I tried it once but I failed, it might've been because we had a troll on our team making me 1v2 bot with her. Of course in Solo Queue you will see something like Ashe/Blitz beating Graves/Taric in lane but GENERALLY it's an unfavorable matchup for Ashe/Blitz. I'm not convinced that Vayne is super weak in lane. I think she's weak but she's probably also the most micro intensive AD carry so it's easy to make mistakes. On October 11 2012 07:15 TheYango wrote: Typically in DotA it's the opposite--a strong lategame carry that is weak midgame requires midgame semicarries/gankers that are able to keep control of the tempo rather than just being passive. I feel like DotA also has more dynamic tower pushing elements which makes the midgame more volatile. You can't play passive because then they can just run you over. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
That's so frustrating. :[ Damn you Janna, first time I see it playing such a huge role into a lane. I believe Viktor would destroy Vlad until at least level 6 because of their Qs otherwise. Between getting camped by a Maokai and my E seemingly not casting despite the click sometimes I didn't managed to kill him, but even with 2 kills ahead and his spellvamp, if those Es would have come out I believe I'd have killed him anyway during those dives, so when even or ahead it must be even more brutal. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
yesterday i vs froggen snoopeh now its wickd snoopeh -_- | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On October 11 2012 07:22 Alaric wrote: Raging so hard against Janna. Was playing as Viktor against a Vlad, both our Qs have 600 range but because his is instant and mine has a cast time, also he had barely more MS than me because of that Janna's passive. So I couldn't stop him from last hitting with Q and he survived with 20 HP once because of that passive. That's so frustrating. :[ Damn you Janna, first time I see it playing such a huge role into a lane. I believe Viktor would destroy Vlad until at least level 6 because of their Qs otherwise. Between getting camped by a Maokai and my E seemingly not casting despite the click sometimes I didn't managed to kill him, but even with 2 kills ahead and his spellvamp, if those Es would have come out I believe I'd have killed him anyway during those dives, so when even or ahead it must be even more brutal. Zilean's +experience passive has fucked me over before so many times... | ||
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