On October 08 2012 10:44 sob3k wrote: Why aren't there more cool skills that scale on interesting stats, like a skill that scales on AS or Crit chance or spellvamp or CDR or MP/HP5?
makes itemization so much more interesting.
There are already mechanics on champions that encourage building some of these stats, such as AS, crit and CDR. Of course, a spell that directly scaled on CDR would be a terrible idea, and crit and lifesteal/spellvamp are dominant enough that there's no need to encourage them further. I would be interested to see how a hp/5 scaling ability might work out though. Seems like a fairly unique idea.
I think a CDR scaling skill could be awesome, I would be thrilled to not have to build Dcap on someone.
On October 08 2012 10:54 TheYango wrote: On a CDR-scaling spell, the other thing about it is that because CDR is capped, it's inherently uninteresting. You get CDR cap, and then the spell's scaling effectively ends. The "scaling" component of that doesn't create gameplay.
You could have it scale off of CDR even over the cap, although that CDR wouldn't effect your actually cast reduction. Basically making it turn into AP at that point but with a more interesting and different build path.
On October 08 2012 10:44 sob3k wrote: Why aren't there more cool skills that scale on interesting stats, like a skill that scales on AS or Crit chance or spellvamp or CDR or MP/HP5?
makes itemization so much more interesting.
There are already mechanics on champions that encourage building some of these stats, such as AS, crit and CDR. Of course, a spell that directly scaled on CDR would be a terrible idea, and crit and lifesteal/spellvamp are dominant enough that there's no need to encourage them further. I would be interested to see how a hp/5 scaling ability might work out though. Seems like a fairly unique idea.
I think a CDR scaling skill could be awesome, I would be thrilled to not have to build Dcap on someone.
On October 08 2012 10:54 TheYango wrote: On a CDR-scaling spell, the other thing about it is that because CDR is capped, it's inherently uninteresting. You get CDR cap, and then the spell's scaling effectively ends. The "scaling" component of that doesn't create gameplay.
You could have it scale off of CDR even over the cap, although that CDR wouldn't effect your actually cast reduction. Basically making it turn into AP at that point but with a more interesting and different build path.
It still wouldn't encourage buying CDR past that point because of the drastic reduction on cost-effectiveness past that point. Even if it did numerically scale past 40% CDR, for all practical purposes it wouldn't be worth it unless you made the scaling ridiculous (at which point the cost-effectiveness of below-cap CDR could become too high).
On October 08 2012 10:44 sob3k wrote: Why aren't there more cool skills that scale on interesting stats, like a skill that scales on AS or Crit chance or spellvamp or CDR or MP/HP5?
makes itemization so much more interesting.
There are already mechanics on champions that encourage building some of these stats, such as AS, crit and CDR. Of course, a spell that directly scaled on CDR would be a terrible idea, and crit and lifesteal/spellvamp are dominant enough that there's no need to encourage them further. I would be interested to see how a hp/5 scaling ability might work out though. Seems like a fairly unique idea.
I think a CDR scaling skill could be awesome, I would be thrilled to not have to build Dcap on someone.
On October 08 2012 10:54 TheYango wrote: On a CDR-scaling spell, the other thing about it is that because CDR is capped, it's inherently uninteresting. You get CDR cap, and then the spell's scaling effectively ends. The "scaling" component of that doesn't create gameplay.
You could have it scale off of CDR even over the cap, although that CDR wouldn't effect your actually cast reduction. Basically making it turn into AP at that point but with a more interesting and different build path.
It still wouldn't encourage buying CDR past that point because of the drastic reduction on cost-effectiveness past that point. Even if it did numerically scale past 40% CDR, for all practical purposes it wouldn't be worth it unless you made the scaling ridiculous (at which point the cost-effectiveness of below-cap CDR could become too high).
Yea, CDR already gives you scaling for your DPS and your utility. It is an incredible statistic. The problem is that the cap is too low AND the blue buff gives half of the caps.
I *THINK* what should be done is that CDR bonuses should have diminishing return instead of linear, asymptotically approaching the cap of 40%.
On October 08 2012 10:44 sob3k wrote: Why aren't there more cool skills that scale on interesting stats, like a skill that scales on AS or Crit chance or spellvamp or CDR or MP/HP5?
makes itemization so much more interesting.
There are already mechanics on champions that encourage building some of these stats, such as AS, crit and CDR. Of course, a spell that directly scaled on CDR would be a terrible idea, and crit and lifesteal/spellvamp are dominant enough that there's no need to encourage them further. I would be interested to see how a hp/5 scaling ability might work out though. Seems like a fairly unique idea.
I think a CDR scaling skill could be awesome, I would be thrilled to not have to build Dcap on someone.
On October 08 2012 10:54 TheYango wrote: On a CDR-scaling spell, the other thing about it is that because CDR is capped, it's inherently uninteresting. You get CDR cap, and then the spell's scaling effectively ends. The "scaling" component of that doesn't create gameplay.
You could have it scale off of CDR even over the cap, although that CDR wouldn't effect your actually cast reduction. Basically making it turn into AP at that point but with a more interesting and different build path.
It still wouldn't encourage buying CDR past that point because of the drastic reduction on cost-effectiveness past that point. Even if it did numerically scale past 40% CDR, for all practical purposes it wouldn't be worth it unless you made the scaling ridiculous (at which point the cost-effectiveness of below-cap CDR could become too high).
Lots of AP's don't buy DFG alot, especially ones with mana issues/sustained damage.
Just have CDR over cap scale twice as hard (call it like escape velocity or power overflow or something, its not even that confusing).
the point is that it would be interesting and encourage building the champ with items that aren't used as much as standard. If you tweaked the kit one way or another you could have a really unique itemization. Who doesn't want to see a mid with like Morellos/Reverie/visage and CDR boots. With crappy enough (or infrequent enought) AP ratios you could make all sorts of shit attractive. Just play with the numbers enough and I think it could work. If ryze can do mana...
It doesn't even have to be a mid AP, it might work better as a top/ad or hybrid. Alot of CDR is on survivability items too, so you could have low range.
If you wanted to change CDR, the best way to do it is linearize it. Right now, the way the formula works is such that each point of CDR is worth more than the last up til 40. Better way is to just have it so that each point of CDR does just as much as the last(same as WoW haste), and then remove the cap. Buff all CDR items except blue buff , and then you're good. Then you could have stuff like CDR builds where you aim to use more small spells rather than a few stronger ones.
Or to make a champion unique, have a passive that gives them 20% CDR innately, that ignore's CDR cap. Max CDR effectively is double spell based damage.
On October 08 2012 12:09 GhostOwl wrote: How do you guys build Anivia? I've seen the Froggen's Warmogs build but wouldn't it better to do 2 RoA rather than RoA + Warmogs?
I also think DFG on Anivia is way too micro-intensive
RoA's passive is unique though, so you don't want 2. Huh. Nvm only the catalyst part of the item is unique. Still, not sure if you need the mana.
Froggen just doesn't care about the AP carry item meta. AP carries have fine items. They could stand to have abyssal rebalanced, or maybe give guise an upgrade but at least they're not bruiser builds that leave you stuck on longswords (I hate longswords T_T, such little combat strength for their cost) or you have to save up for a BF sword. Or it's not like an AD carry build where your best choice for a first item is either a Bloodthirster or IE with some random variations where people go Black Cleaver, or wriggles or PDancer.
AP carries probably have the most selection for their item pool of all the classes right now.
On October 08 2012 12:09 GhostOwl wrote: How do you guys build Anivia? I've seen the Froggen's Warmogs build but wouldn't it better to do 2 RoA rather than RoA + Warmogs?
I also think DFG on Anivia is way too micro-intensive
RoA's passive is unique though, so you don't want 2. Huh. Nvm only the catalyst part of the item is unique. Still, not sure if you need the mana.
Froggen just doesn't care about the AP carry item meta. AP carries have fine items. They could stand to have abyssal rebalanced, or maybe give guise an upgrade but at least they're not bruiser builds that leave you stuck on longswords (I hate longswords T_T, such little combat strength for their cost) or you have to save up for a BF sword. Or it's not like an AD carry build where your best choice for a first item is either a Bloodthirster or IE with some random variations where people go Black Cleaver, or wriggles or PDancer.
AP carries probably have the most selection for their item pool of all the classes right now.
I'd be brave enough to say supports have the most selection, based on how you want to set up for team fights.
On October 08 2012 12:09 Amui wrote: If you wanted to change CDR, the best way to do it is linearize it. Right now, the way the formula works is such that each point of CDR is worth more than the last up til 40. Better way is to just have it so that each point of CDR does just as much as the last(same as WoW haste), and then remove the cap. Buff all CDR items except blue buff , and then you're good. Then you could have stuff like CDR builds where you aim to use more small spells rather than a few stronger ones.
Or to make a champion unique, have a passive that gives them 20% CDR innately, that ignore's CDR cap. Max CDR effectively is double spell based damage.
And then you have a mass amount of idiots running around talking about "diminishing returns". It always happens with those formulas.
On October 08 2012 12:09 Amui wrote: If you wanted to change CDR, the best way to do it is linearize it. Right now, the way the formula works is such that each point of CDR is worth more than the last up til 40. Better way is to just have it so that each point of CDR does just as much as the last(same as WoW haste), and then remove the cap. Buff all CDR items except blue buff , and then you're good. Then you could have stuff like CDR builds where you aim to use more small spells rather than a few stronger ones.
Or to make a champion unique, have a passive that gives them 20% CDR innately, that ignore's CDR cap. Max CDR effectively is double spell based damage.
And then you have a mass amount of idiots running around talking about "diminishing returns". It always happens with those formulas.
Each point is worth exactly as much as the last point. It's only that each point is worth less relative to other stats.
On October 08 2012 12:09 GhostOwl wrote: How do you guys build Anivia? I've seen the Froggen's Warmogs build but wouldn't it better to do 2 RoA rather than RoA + Warmogs?
I also think DFG on Anivia is way too micro-intensive
RoA's passive is unique though, so you don't want 2. Huh. Nvm only the catalyst part of the item is unique. Still, not sure if you need the mana.
Froggen just doesn't care about the AP carry item meta. AP carries have fine items. They could stand to have abyssal rebalanced, or maybe give guise an upgrade but at least they're not bruiser builds that leave you stuck on longswords (I hate longswords T_T, such little combat strength for their cost) or you have to save up for a BF sword. Or it's not like an AD carry build where your best choice for a first item is either a Bloodthirster or IE with some random variations where people go Black Cleaver, or wriggles or PDancer.
AP carries probably have the most selection for their item pool of all the classes right now.
On October 08 2012 12:09 GhostOwl wrote: How do you guys build Anivia? I've seen the Froggen's Warmogs build but wouldn't it better to do 2 RoA rather than RoA + Warmogs?
I also think DFG on Anivia is way too micro-intensive
Pressing a single button is micro-intensive? DFG has longer range than her E...
EPT
