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Same here, only played against Nunu top once, and he didn't even use Smash and Neo's build. And it wasn't anywhere near as grating as playing against Yorrick. I only really rage (vocally and stuff) when my teammates are making utterly retarded plays (which arguably happened a lot more than my throat would have liked recently), but I made a exception for the first 2 times I played against Yorrick. And I was Irelia with a defensive setup, mind you.
It's like playing against Malphite, except he doesn't need his ult to kill you, he can kill you even when you kill him, and he doesn't go oom near as fast (and not at all as soon as he has one item). Plus you can actually beat Malphite, and even crush them if they're bad. Yorrick? I'd love if I could, but even big mistakes seem to be effortlessly compensated by his slow, sustain, and all the defensive bonuses he get just from spamming QWE when you hit him.
A badly played Nunu is a lot easier to beat, and isn't as obnoxious in sieges and teamfights.
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Bloodboil is a lot less retard-mode forgiveness than Omen of Death.
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On September 19 2012 09:12 TheYango wrote:
Nunu is cute and Yorick is ugly.
Why else do you think Teemo passes the "top lane asshole" test?
Does he, though?
And thanks Alaric and Craton for actually providing reasons that go beyond ''I LIKE LITTLE BOYS RIDING YETIS YO''
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Well a big drawback of Nunu is that as fun as it is to run up to somebody and ult under their tower when they have expanded their cc, it can only happen once every minute.
Pick Udyr or Pantheon, towerdive every 15s huehue.
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On September 19 2012 09:02 Roffles wrote:
He's got 4k more deaths than kills. Where this no feed comin from?
Gotta spend money to make money.
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On September 19 2012 09:16 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 09:12 TheYango wrote:
Nunu is cute and Yorick is ugly.
Why else do you think Teemo passes the "top lane asshole" test? Does he, though? And thanks Alaric and Craton for actually providing reasons that go beyond ''I LIKE LITTLE BOYS RIDING YETIS YO''
fine, other "valid" reasons
-Yorick does mixed damage types, so harder to spec against
-Yorick W doesn't need a target, which means hiding in the bush doesn't help against him -- also allows him to avoid ganks
-Yorick has more sustained DPS options (i.e. ghoul hits, following up with Q, etc) making temporary defenses less effective than nunu's predictable ice balls
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It's also easier to force a farm lane against Nunu because he's got less range to harass you under tower and can't both harass you and farm since his only ranged ability is iceball. And he can't push effectively without using his ult either.
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really don't know why there is so much hate against yorick/nunu when there are much more infuriating things out there such as jayce and rengar.
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nunu top is not a whole lot less annoying than yorick top. I think if nunu top were popular he'd be pretty thoroughly disliked. There are definitely factors that make yorick more miserable than anything else regardless of power level though... For example getting chased by ghouls is so unfun it makes me want to uninstall just thinking about it.
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On September 19 2012 09:39 tobi9999 wrote:
really don't know why there is so much hate against yorick/nunu when there are much more infuriating things out there such as jayce and rengar.
Or Rumble. I swear to God, he gets one kill at all in lane, and it's like a fucking unstoppable force from then on.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Why do people think that Maokai is a good champion is absolutely beyond me. I play like 50 games with him and I'd say I have a pretty good grip on how he plays but he is just so ridiculously bad how come pro players ever picked him up.
His ganks are really awful, he has a root+jump and a knock up, whoop de do, his root gets raped by anyone with a blink ability and he has absolutely no damage during ganks at all. He has absolutely no way to gank bottom except for from-lane ganks, which 99.99% is warded anyway because having a ward there helps so much ganks or no.
Unless you get Oracles, don't even get me started on those. They make you extremely weak should you want to get them early, any champion can 1v1 you (sometimes including supports). Yes, that holds true even when you don't waste 400 gold on that statless item, but this multiplies the problem to incredible levels. You are so weak that any even very delayed countergank will totally own you, even when the enemy jungler has Oracles (he isn't Maokai, he is Lee Sin or Skarner or whatever and does 300% more damage than you ever will). So ganking anywhere near bottom lane is super risky and won't likely net you anything more than a support kill, whoop de do.
(too bad you are probably too low to do dragon anyway, because you are Maokai and do no damage WHOOO)
Well, I guess you could gank middle.
Ok, but you face a problem that half the fucking middle lane roster is ungankable. Morgana, Gragas, Ahri (post6). It's not just that though, unless enemy midlaner is really really dumb they will buy them 75 gold items, so you will most likely need to buy Oracles to do this stuff too.
But junglers spend a lot of their time close to middle lane, so you might get counterganked and die and instantly lose game because Oracles gone HAHA. The middle lane is so short that they can walk+flash to their god damn turret and then CC you underneath it. boo hoo.
Ganking top lane is good, yeah it's nice it works. Well, guess what, any jungler excluding like 1 can gank top lane very well and top lane doesn't even matter much after level 7 or so. If you are making plays around top lane and enemy jungler is controling bottom lane + dragon you are in deeeeep trouble.
Maokai doesn't even scale that well! All the bruiser junglers have way better late midgame and lategame (Shyvana, Skarner, Mundo, hell even Nocturne and Lee Sin) because all the fights are so spread out with so much kiting that your ultimate doesn't do much, and your CC isn't really that spectacular either (it's mostly single target tbh).
The only thing that Maokai can do is place temporary wards at larger distance than the gold-costing wards. But guess what, Olaf can get some vision with his axes too.
Can someone please explain to me how come people play Maokai?
(This isn't in Shayuki's thread because it is just a passionate and heartfelt question about viability of Maokai as a jungler)
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universalsnip is correct
while there is little counterplay to snowball, at least snowball is just a quick burst of unpleasantness
yorick's ghouls make you miserable and block all skillshot and return-harass counterplay for a good 5 or 6 seconds it feels. he's just miserable to play against. if a nunu outplays you for a kill, you're like damn nunu top OP. but if yorick kills you, you're like oh wow so this guy has fingers, nice, good job guy
also i wish i spoke chinese or japanese or something, seems like a good skill to have
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I think this is where we can just close the discussion with a simple motto: Top lane is bullshit.
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idd.
I've completly stopped playing toplanes unless i'm forced into it by other guys picks.
Just too dumb what happens up there.
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On September 19 2012 09:49 gtrsrs wrote:
universalsnip is correct
while there is little counterplay to snowball, at least snowball is just a quick burst of unpleasantness
yorick's ghouls make you miserable and block all skillshot and return-harass counterplay for a good 5 or 6 seconds it feels. he's just miserable to play against. if a nunu outplays you for a kill, you're like damn nunu top OP. but if yorick kills you, you're like oh wow so this guy has fingers, nice, good job guy
also i wish i spoke chinese or japanese or something, seems like a good skill to have
But snowball DOES have counterplay by virtue of having travel time and being nunu's only non-ult offensive spell. Anyone with on-demand defenses (Rumble, Jarvan, Kennen, Lee Sin, Garen, Riven, Vlad, Kat, Shen etc etc) can see it coming and mitigate it. The same applies to nunu's ultimate, which offers plenty of counterplay through visual predictibility, interruptibility, and of course being able to jump or flash out of it.
Counterplay is a huge part of what makes champs fun or not fun to play against, and I'm glad they addressed that in the hotfix preview.
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I don't understand equating hard to gank champions to Maokai's badness. I literally thought he had some of the most terrifying ganks in the game. Doesn't pretty much every jungler have trouble ganking people like Gragas+Ahri? Thats mobile champs for you.
I'll agree with his scaling though. Dunno if its that bad considering you can just throw down his ult in the middle of a team fight. Along with locking down the adc for a while, but still relies on someone to take advantage of that.
Meh, he has great utility to me, not much more. Similar to cow, except cow has a much better engage and moar cc.
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im really bad at maokai but my mid keeps telling me a mid with a stun like tf + maokai root = autokill every time which makes sense.
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On September 19 2012 10:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
im really bad at maokai but my mid keeps telling me a mid with a stun like tf + maokai root = autokill every time which makes sense.
I looooooove having a mao on my team. Makes mid kills pretty easy, especially if I have cc
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On September 19 2012 09:47 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 09:39 tobi9999 wrote:
really don't know why there is so much hate against yorick/nunu when there are much more infuriating things out there such as jayce and rengar. Or Rumble. I swear to God, he gets one kill at all in lane, and it's like a fucking unstoppable force from then on.
Rumble vs Yorick, Unstoppable force vs Immovable object who will win????? Not even physics can tell us.
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On September 19 2012 09:39 tobi9999 wrote:
really don't know why there is so much hate against yorick/nunu when there are much more infuriating things out there such as jayce and rengar.
Didn't see any Rengar top. I regularly rage against Jayce because fucker has no bad match-ups, no mana costs, short CDs, mixed damage, burst and combos that allow him to do sustained damage too, excellent scaling, range, poke, harass, gap closer, disengage, mobility, steroids, AoE slow, defensive stats debuffs, pushing power. The only thing that he lacks is "true" sustained damage (attained via his builds) and sustain (same here).
Did I mention that he loses almost no lane at all?
Also Anivia. Fuck her, really. I don't like to see CLG.eu play, and she represents it all so well. Behind? 'k I'll turtle and waveclear and you can't do shit. Ahead? Well I'll push and camp your turret and you can't do shit. So much utility, so much fucking damage for close to no AP, and the ability to litteraly freeze the game unless your team's initiation potentiel far surpasses their disengage/counterinitiation potentiel. And God help you if they have another threat or you can't burst the goddamn fucking bird, because you can be sure she'll make your life hell as soon as the fight goes for more than 4 seconds (5 counting the initiation).
Not even counting all the champs her sheer presence counters, or that every champ who can't dash or tp around is fucked in every teamfight she'll play a part in.
Fucking dumb champ that makes the plays so passive and hard to come back against.
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EPT
