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Gabon6219 Posts
On September 24 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:13 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Usually when junglers do something bad in competitive play, there's a thought process behind it that most people don't understand because they've never been in a similar situation. People talk shit and give opinions when they have 0 idea how bad the level they play at is compared to tourney play. This is similar to people arguing about strategy or champion viability on TL, if for example you have no 5s experience and have never played a solo queue game with anyone above silver, it means you have never played a meaningful game in your life and thus have no understanding of 90% of the stuff that goes on in this game. This awareness of the value of opinions has always seemed self-evident to me but apparently not to the people who post here. I think(for me atleast), when calling a top player out on doing something bad, it's usually relative compared to other top players. Sure it may be better than me, but it's shit compared to x top player etc, which is a somewhat fair comparison. What people often forget though, is that when watching tourney games, players dont have the same information and vision we do, especially the vision part. It's real easy to say "why didn't team x do barno" when we know the enemy team is hiding @ dragon or whatever, when team x doesn't have vision of them at all. Ok but do you actually understand why a certain player did worse than his counterpart besides, omfg how does he die to that gank it was so obv? Remember when xhazzard lost all of his lanes as Malphite during MLG anaheim but people were calling him MVP because he pulled off fancy malphite ults and had decent score and cs in every game?
Most of the time it's pretty obvious why people lose a lane hard, but they still make silly mistakes etc.
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Well there aren't that much discussion when someone call reginald bad or mock him. So all that thing about ego is just people who likes Hotshot and don't bear a critics. You don't have to be good to criticise a play, most casters are way weaker than the pro and still have the knowledge to understand if one play is bad or not.
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Just got reminded why I hate playing ad carries that aren't Caitlyn. just went 0-7-0 with MF. Forever scrub.
xHazzard got his lane camped pretty hard throughout Anaheim though... This was a period while top lane camp was pretty popular, and HSGG just started jungle. Not to mention, that's sort of the whole point of malphite though, you don't always win lane, but you just need to barely keep up, and you just out scale later in the game in teamfights.
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On September 24 2012 04:25 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:On September 24 2012 04:13 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Usually when junglers do something bad in competitive play, there's a thought process behind it that most people don't understand because they've never been in a similar situation. People talk shit and give opinions when they have 0 idea how bad the level they play at is compared to tourney play. This is similar to people arguing about strategy or champion viability on TL, if for example you have no 5s experience and have never played a solo queue game with anyone above silver, it means you have never played a meaningful game in your life and thus have no understanding of 90% of the stuff that goes on in this game. This awareness of the value of opinions has always seemed self-evident to me but apparently not to the people who post here. I think(for me atleast), when calling a top player out on doing something bad, it's usually relative compared to other top players. Sure it may be better than me, but it's shit compared to x top player etc, which is a somewhat fair comparison. What people often forget though, is that when watching tourney games, players dont have the same information and vision we do, especially the vision part. It's real easy to say "why didn't team x do barno" when we know the enemy team is hiding @ dragon or whatever, when team x doesn't have vision of them at all. Ok but do you actually understand why a certain player did worse than his counterpart besides, omfg how does he die to that gank it was so obv? Remember when xhazzard lost all of his lanes as Malphite during MLG anaheim but people were calling him MVP because he pulled off fancy malphite ults and had decent score and cs in every game? Most of the time it's pretty obvious why people lose a lane hard, but they still make silly mistakes etc.
It's not obvious at all 90% of the time cuz the camera doesn't focus on the lane. Most of the silly mistakes you think you see aren't really silly.
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Gabon6219 Posts
On September 24 2012 04:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:25 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:On September 24 2012 04:13 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Usually when junglers do something bad in competitive play, there's a thought process behind it that most people don't understand because they've never been in a similar situation. People talk shit and give opinions when they have 0 idea how bad the level they play at is compared to tourney play. This is similar to people arguing about strategy or champion viability on TL, if for example you have no 5s experience and have never played a solo queue game with anyone above silver, it means you have never played a meaningful game in your life and thus have no understanding of 90% of the stuff that goes on in this game. This awareness of the value of opinions has always seemed self-evident to me but apparently not to the people who post here. I think(for me atleast), when calling a top player out on doing something bad, it's usually relative compared to other top players. Sure it may be better than me, but it's shit compared to x top player etc, which is a somewhat fair comparison. What people often forget though, is that when watching tourney games, players dont have the same information and vision we do, especially the vision part. It's real easy to say "why didn't team x do barno" when we know the enemy team is hiding @ dragon or whatever, when team x doesn't have vision of them at all. Ok but do you actually understand why a certain player did worse than his counterpart besides, omfg how does he die to that gank it was so obv? Remember when xhazzard lost all of his lanes as Malphite during MLG anaheim but people were calling him MVP because he pulled off fancy malphite ults and had decent score and cs in every game? Most of the time it's pretty obvious why people lose a lane hard, but they still make silly mistakes etc. It's not obvious at all 90% of the time cuz the camera doesn't focus on the lane. Most of the silly mistakes you think you see aren't really silly.
I'm talking about things like, when the jungler camps top for the first 5minutes it's pretty easy to lose the lane. I haven't really watched that much league lately so I can't recall any lanes that were lost pretty hard, the example here is just one of the things I remember. Silly mistakes are when you know you are behind, your lane is warded and you still choose to trade anyways.
Or Elementz losing botlane because he didn't know enemy leona started boots. All it takes is a tab the second you get to lane.
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On September 24 2012 04:30 WhiteDog wrote:
Well there aren't that much people discussion when someone call reginald bad or mock him. So all that thing about ego is just people who likes Hotshot and don't bear a critic. You don't have to be good to criticise a play, most casters are way weaker than the pro and still have the knowledge to understand if one play is bad or not.
ive voiced my opinion on this several times in the past, about a number of players, i think including regi. I don't see how motivation is relevant to correctness, but for me at least it's not really a factor. As for the caster comment, lol, yeah, that's why everyone appreciates rivington's insight.
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On September 24 2012 04:34 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:31 zulu_nation8 wrote:On September 24 2012 04:25 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:18 zulu_nation8 wrote:On September 24 2012 04:13 JackDino wrote:On September 24 2012 04:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Usually when junglers do something bad in competitive play, there's a thought process behind it that most people don't understand because they've never been in a similar situation. People talk shit and give opinions when they have 0 idea how bad the level they play at is compared to tourney play. This is similar to people arguing about strategy or champion viability on TL, if for example you have no 5s experience and have never played a solo queue game with anyone above silver, it means you have never played a meaningful game in your life and thus have no understanding of 90% of the stuff that goes on in this game. This awareness of the value of opinions has always seemed self-evident to me but apparently not to the people who post here. I think(for me atleast), when calling a top player out on doing something bad, it's usually relative compared to other top players. Sure it may be better than me, but it's shit compared to x top player etc, which is a somewhat fair comparison. What people often forget though, is that when watching tourney games, players dont have the same information and vision we do, especially the vision part. It's real easy to say "why didn't team x do barno" when we know the enemy team is hiding @ dragon or whatever, when team x doesn't have vision of them at all. Ok but do you actually understand why a certain player did worse than his counterpart besides, omfg how does he die to that gank it was so obv? Remember when xhazzard lost all of his lanes as Malphite during MLG anaheim but people were calling him MVP because he pulled off fancy malphite ults and had decent score and cs in every game? Most of the time it's pretty obvious why people lose a lane hard, but they still make silly mistakes etc. It's not obvious at all 90% of the time cuz the camera doesn't focus on the lane. Most of the silly mistakes you think you see aren't really silly. I'm talking about things like, when the jungler camps top for the first 5minutes it's pretty easy to lose the lane. I haven't really watched that much league lately so I can't recall any lanes that were lost pretty hard, the example here is just one of the things I remember. Silly mistakes are when you know you are behind, your lane is warded and you still choose to trade anyways. Or Elementz losing botlane because he didn't know enemy leona started boots. All it takes is a tab the second you get to lane.
So for your 2nd example, you think it's always better to never trade in lane when behind and let them walk all over you? There's a difference in tier of thought process here. If for example, the top laner is behind, he knows his lane is warded and he knows approximately where the other jungler is but chooses to trade anyway because he wants to wear the other laner down for a gank in the near future, or that he doesn't wanna get completely zoned from creeps or he doesn't want a huge wave pushing to his tower and then getting dove, can you really critique that decision even if it turns out bad? If yes, he trades and dies to a gank, do you really think he had no idea that that was a risk when he decided to trade? If you are aware of his thought process, the right critique would be to focus on his logic, and the fact he did take that risk, instead of simply blaming him for dying because he traded while behind.
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On September 24 2012 04:38 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:30 WhiteDog wrote:
Well there aren't that much people discussion when someone call reginald bad or mock him. So all that thing about ego is just people who likes Hotshot and don't bear a critic. You don't have to be good to criticise a play, most casters are way weaker than the pro and still have the knowledge to understand if one play is bad or not. ive voiced my opinion on this several times in the past, about a number of players, i think including regi. I don't see how motivation is relevant to correctness, but for me at least it's not really a factor. As for the caster comment, lol, yeah, that's why everyone appreciates rivington's insight.
you do have to be good to criticize plays, that's my point.
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Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man.
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I don't think you need 2k+ elo to be able to accurately judge that someone should know how Darius's ult works or should have an idea on who opened with what item when all you need do is hit tab and look. That's just strait up mistakes. Pro's make them. Everyone makes mistakes, but seriously saying you can't judge them unless you are as good as they are is as flawed as saying they should know everything and be flawless.
Mistakes happen and yes if you are on a top level, people are going to call you out on it and it's really not that much of a big deal.
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Last time I'm stating this to anyone in general (already talked to bly on LP, we're buds) as I'm done with this particular topic:
I'm making it very clear here that I am NOT criticizing high elo decision making; I do not know enough about that to be able to comment on it without sounding like an asshole.
I am just commenting on the fact that someone who plays the game at a professional level should have an inside and out knowledge of all the skills in the game. That is all.
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On September 24 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man.
every pro ever getting HoG on everything and occasionally going positive, what now.
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On September 24 2012 04:51 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man. every pro ever getting HoG on everything and occasionally going positive, what now.
I'm still convinced HoG is a decent item, but that subject been talked to death.
And then DFG on the teemo! Zekent my new fav player, doing ap teemos proud!
And he got shurelya's, holy fuck zekent, you read my posts?!
man I feel so validated, it's ridic.
Wait, Ahri, Zyra isn't try hard? O.o, dem winrates.
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On September 24 2012 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:51 Shiv. wrote:On September 24 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man. every pro ever getting HoG on everything and occasionally going positive, what now. I'm still convinced HoG is a decent item, but that subject been talked to death.
Sounds about right.
So guys, I decided come S3, I stop the occasional tryharding and just play Ziggs, Zyra and Ahri, cause most fun champs EU. What's your solution for S3?
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On September 24 2012 04:41 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:38 UniversalSnip wrote:On September 24 2012 04:30 WhiteDog wrote:
Well there aren't that much people discussion when someone call reginald bad or mock him. So all that thing about ego is just people who likes Hotshot and don't bear a critic. You don't have to be good to criticise a play, most casters are way weaker than the pro and still have the knowledge to understand if one play is bad or not. ive voiced my opinion on this several times in the past, about a number of players, i think including regi. I don't see how motivation is relevant to correctness, but for me at least it's not really a factor. As for the caster comment, lol, yeah, that's why everyone appreciates rivington's insight. you do have to be good to criticize plays, that's my point.
real reading comprehension, go look at my posts.
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On September 24 2012 04:56 Shiv. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:On September 24 2012 04:51 Shiv. wrote:On September 24 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man. every pro ever getting HoG on everything and occasionally going positive, what now. I'm still convinced HoG is a decent item, but that subject been talked to death. Sounds about right. So guys, I decided come S3, I stop the occasional tryharding and just play Ziggs, Zyra and Ahri, cause most fun champs EU. What's your solution for S3?
Play 1000 Hecarim games.
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On September 24 2012 04:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 04:51 Shiv. wrote:On September 24 2012 04:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Zekant getting philo on teemo, and 3-0-1, who said philo on top teemo was bad? Yeah, I feel justified now.
and Kage's now. welp shit zekent, good man. every pro ever getting HoG on everything and occasionally going positive, what now. Wait, Ahri, Zyra isn't try hard? O.o, dem winrates.
Look at MY winrates and tell me they're tryhard again, lol. I suck at mid in general and I just feel like playing FUN champs, and Zyra/Ziggs/Ahri are probably the most fun to me.
Also, what is it with people pulling winrates? Says next to nothing about the champ itself.
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Well Zyra has been pretty fucking good since release. Been op'd for a while.
And Ahri's just fucking stupid champ, she has no bad lanes, and can carry solo queue pretty easy.
Winrate at high elo solo queue is pretty good representation of how good it is in current solo queue meta imo. With exception of those who are perma-banned status.
Also, I'm so sad  , AL threw so hard by letting Baron stolen. SPELLSY, Wai you guys keep going for dat baron?
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Is it just me, or do most jungle alistar players now suck. Or maybe people are able to deal with lvl 2 and constant ganks better.
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That is the worst teem build I've ever seen. He was ahead but instead of capitalizing his advantage, he went for philo and dorans blade? He could've owned vlad so much harder.. And then he proceed to build CDR boots + shurelya, combine with DFG gave he way above 40% CDR. thus delaying Death cap and render himself un-threatful.
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EPT
