EPT[Patch 1.0.0.146: Late August] General Discussion - Page 37
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:25 UniversalSnip wrote: so people will just pick weaker supports/carries, what's the problem? Because when there are fewer elite-level champs for a role than one team has bans, then there is a problem. You basically give blue team a guaranteed teamcomp advantage if we have 4/5 tourney-level ADCs or Supports (which is not far from happening). | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Game with Teemo/Poppy bot, Teemo build IE/IE/PD, Singed being a troll with MS build, and literally 0 words said through the entire game whatsoever? OVERWHELMING VICTORY, COMPLETELY ONE SIDED STOMP. Solo queue. I don't even fucking know. But I'll take wins anyway. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:38 Requizen wrote: Game with normal picks, pings and wards all around the map, and taking dragon and buffs on timers? Loss. Game with Teemo/Poppy bot, Teemo build IE/IE/PD, Singed being a troll with MS build, and literally 0 words said through the entire game whatsoever? OVERWHELMING VICTORY, COMPLETELY ONE SIDED STOMP. Solo queue. I don't even fucking know. But I'll take wins anyway. This so much. No matter how polished my teamcomposition is and how much I outfarm the opponent, its gonna be a loss. But when you have a jungle Yi, top Nunu and mid Poppy, its on! | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:42 h3r1n6 wrote: Is that concern for solo queue or for tournament play? For solo queue any ad is playable of course. At the same time for tournaments, if you spend that many bans and first pick for ad carry or support, enemy team just gets to pick whatever they want everywhere else. Well, the SoloQ problem has more to do with a person who is new getting all his champs for the role banned out (say you are last pick and have to jungle, but all your junglers are banned). The SoloQ situation is unlikely to be a problem (I see mostly uncoordinated and lame bans most of the time). In tournaments though there is not a way to ban all of a player's champs with only 3 bans. Its mostly just targeted bans against some favorite champs like Dyrus/Vlad, Voy/Olaf, Froggen/Anivia. Basically it is a "convenience" thing outside of Alistar who might have finally been nerfed enough. I am not saying that this strategy is a good one, but I'm saying with a small amount of changes to the game it could be a real problem if more supports and AD Carries become strong in competitive play. I'm just thinking about stuff right now, but it seems like even pro ADC players don't have that deep of champ pools because they don't get banned very often right now. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Doesn't matter for solo queue. On September 03 2012 15:16 cLutZ wrote: I've seen a lot of talk about expanding the number of bans in LoL. Thats fine and dandy, I like it in theory. But there are not that many supports or AD Carries as it is (and like half the ADCs aren't viable/are highly teamcomp dependent). This seems like trouble to me. This is a non-issue if you implement the additional bans as a second ban phase. It just puts pressure to handle those roles in the first picking phase. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:57 TheYango wrote: Competitive play needs 2nd ban phase. It's not an issue of just raw power. It's an issue that you can't pick heroes with obvious lane counter because of the lack of a second ban phase to help you smooth out those weaknesses. Doesn't matter for solo queue. This is a non-issue if you implement the additional bans as a second ban phase. It just puts pressure to handle those roles in the first picking phase. I don't know about the DOTA meta to comment on that. I've actually wondered for a while why people don't ban ADCs out right now. It seems like banning Graves + Picking Corki would cripple like half the pros as it is. In the meantime, every top/jungle/mid seems to be competent on like 10 champs so banning Mao/Nunu isn't exactly effective. All you can do is ban comps like Karthus+Kayle or Vlad+Kennen/Morg. | ||
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czylu
477 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:15 cLutZ wrote: I don't know about the DOTA meta to comment on that. I've actually wondered for a while why people don't ban ADCs out right now. It seems like banning Graves + Picking Corki would cripple like half the pros as it is. In the meantime, every top/jungle/mid seems to be competent on like 10 champs so banning Mao/Nunu isn't exactly effective. All you can do is ban comps like Karthus+Kayle or Vlad+Kennen/Morg. Ad Carries generally play the same + are only a threat when farmed. Banning a crucial support is way more influential to an ad carry, as it's the support who gets the carry fed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:20 czylu wrote: Ad Carries generally play the same + are only a threat when farmed. Banning a crucial support is way more influential to an ad carry, as it's the support who gets the carry fed. We are almost as close to having a support scarcity crisis as an ADC scarcity crisis, especially since people are banning Ali and Nunu for their jungles now. Luckily, most of the supports are viable in the current meta (although that is mainly because the other ones were hit with the nerfbat pretty hard. I like the idea of more bans, I just think that Riot needs to balance their two thinnest champ pools better if they are going to add more bans. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:15 cLutZ wrote: I don't know about the DOTA meta to comment on that. I've actually wondered for a while why people don't ban ADCs out right now. It seems like banning Graves + Picking Corki would cripple like half the pros as it is. In the meantime, every top/jungle/mid seems to be competent on like 10 champs so banning Mao/Nunu isn't exactly effective. All you can do is ban comps like Karthus+Kayle or Vlad+Kennen/Morg. Then you counterban Corki and both sides have to pick another AD. Problem solved. I find ADs to be the least significant ban target since they are mostly replaceable but in top and mid there are now so many matchups that it's hard to ban all you don't want to see. Especially in low ELO soloQ it's annoying... but then again, there are never enough bans for soloQ. What has to be considered is also that for ranked games you have to have at least (10+number of total bans) champions, so if they add another ban for each side, it means that newer players need 18 instead of 16 champs unlocked to start playing ranked, delaying their ranked games (which might or might not be actually a good thing...). | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:54 Kenpachi wrote: i dont have a sense of who are good first pick anymore.. Who should i first pick when my teammates dont claim a champ? I always end up picking some jungler when i dont even want to jungle. Just pick nunu,Can cover 3 positions and you can adapt to what they pick accordingly.If they pick something like a jax or xin top you just go shit on them,if they pick riven,darius,irelia top go support or jungle. Or a jayce I guess,that thing doesn't loose to anything anyway. | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:54 Kenpachi wrote: i dont have a sense of who are good first pick anymore.. Who should i first pick when my teammates dont claim a champ? I always end up picking some jungler when i dont even want to jungle. Basically if you aren't comfortable going against just about anything as the champ, it's not a safe pick for you. Most AD, jungle, or support picks are safe. Irelia and Yorick are generally safe top picks. I dunno that there's really a safe mid pick since any normal mage pick is countered by most assassins (LB, Talon, Kass, etc) or Panth. Ahri and Ryze work pretty well against most picks. You can always ban out champs that give you a hard time in the lane you're planning to go. I like to ban Blitz/Taric 'cause that's all people play if they're open since you can just roll your face on the keyboard and win the lane. Taric is a reallllly good ban at lower Elos because of how bad people are at laning against him. Blitz is even more unforgiving, but people are realllllly bad at Blitz at low elo (but so are people at playing against him, so ban both). | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On September 03 2012 16:54 Kenpachi wrote: i dont have a sense of who are good first pick anymore.. Who should i first pick when my teammates dont claim a champ? I always end up picking some jungler when i dont even want to jungle. In soloQ it's so dangerous to firstpick for someone else, it just ends up in chaos. I've lost a dozen games because my teammates forgot to trade champs and then 2 of them ended up with completely wrong runes and summoners. Even when watching higher ELO streams it seems people just pick whatever they want themselves since the enemy will most likely just counterpick himself due to an overinflated view on his skill with a particular champion. In my opinion the safest picks should either be strong multi-role champions, especially when you don't want the opponent to have them, like alistar/malphite/shen, or AD carry/support since a duo-lane can't really be hardcountered. Sure, a bot lane might still have a bad matchup but you won't instantly lose the lane if the enemy picks one particular composition. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On September 03 2012 14:07 JackDino wrote: Anyone who can clear fast early shits on nunu if your jungler is incompetent. They often are. no wtf | ||
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Craton
United States17294 Posts
The only time you actually ban one is as a targeted ban at a certain player. | ||
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