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On August 18 2012 04:32 Slayer91 wrote:
Why?
Playing when your teammates are doing badly is the ultmiate test of carrying a game. Anyone can get good scores when your team is ahead on gold.
If you want to show that you're better than a given elo, carrying a game like that is the best way to do it.
The same reason I didn't wear trunks to swim when I did it competitively. Could I do it? Sure, I could have. But I'd be pissed if I was forced to handicap myself and it was outside of my control. Same goes for LoL. Sure, I carry some games despite my team being full of less-than-capable people, but I'd really rather not have to do so in the first place.
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So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp?
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On August 18 2012 04:36 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:32 Slayer91 wrote:
Why?
Playing when your teammates are doing badly is the ultmiate test of carrying a game. Anyone can get good scores when your team is ahead on gold.
If you want to show that you're better than a given elo, carrying a game like that is the best way to do it. The same reason I didn't wear trunks to swim when I did it competitively. Could I do it? Sure, I could have. But I'd be pissed if I was forced to handicap myself and it was outside of my control. Same goes for LoL. Sure, I carry some games despite my team being full of less-than-capable people, but I'd really rather not have to do so in the first place.
Yea but if you can't distinguish yourself somehow from the people in the elo you are currently in than how do you think people should rise in elo?
If everyone plays decent and doesn't need to "carry" everyone would be stuck in the same place.
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because normals have no meaning to them. it's like winning a practice game, everybody knows nobody tried their hardest because they don't care about the result.
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You will not be able to find equal skill games either high elo or low elo where everyone is consisently not dying and no lanes carrys another.
Even in competitive play lanes get shut down and people feed and other lanes can carry them. It's part of the game.
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On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp?
should we be playing to lose then?
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/shrug. I've always played and competed under the assumption that victory is the goal. I'd rather get to 1500 and never have a really hard challenge than tell people "I know I'm only 1k, but it's fine because I'm slightly improving".
I also find playing against tougher opponents is a better way to gain skill anyway, rather than playing against a mediocre Akali who just laned against someone bad and goes 12-0 because, well, fed Akali. I don't learn anything from that, other than the fact that Akali snowballs like hell when you let someone bad play against her.
There's plenty to say about challenge, there's plenty to say about tempering skill. But at the end of the day I'd rather have only increased my map awareness by 1% and have 5 wins than have 5 losses but be 4% better at watching the minimap.
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On August 18 2012 04:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Can we perhaps close some of the old, outdated [Champion] threads so new ones can be created? I was looking over some of them (e.g. Janna) and it was horribly outdated (ArPen WTF?)..
If you're willing to make a new one to the required standards, feel free to PM Neo and he'll close the old one for you since I can't do that.
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On August 18 2012 04:42 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:35 Sufficiency wrote:
Can we perhaps close some of the old, outdated [Champion] threads so new ones can be created? I was looking over some of them (e.g. Janna) and it was horribly outdated (ArPen WTF?).. If you're willing to make a new one to the required standards, feel free to PM Neo and he'll close the old one for you since I can't do that.
Oh wow I wasn't aware of this. Thanks.
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On August 18 2012 03:33 quillian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 03:29 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 03:22 quillian wrote:
Hi!
I am a longtime sc2 player and newish LoL player. I am curious if anyone can explain how ELO rankings work in terms of SC2 leagues. For instance, is 1400 the equivalent of diamond, 1500 masters, 1200 Gold, etc...
Just trying to get a handle on how hard it is to rank up in LoL vs SC2.
Thanks! After ranking matches, most people are around 1200 to 1300 ELO. I think Plat is around 2k. Basically, Bronze is top 25%, Silver 10%, Gold 3%, Plat .2%. Sorry let me restate: How do SC2 Leagues relate to LoL Leauges? Based on the numbers you give, it sounds like LOL > SC2 Bronze > Plat Silver > Diamond Gold > Masters Plat > GM Does this sound about right?
no
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On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then?
It's about priorities. If you play to win but don't learn anything you'll eventually get stuck. If you play to learn winning is a natural consequence of self-improvement.
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On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then?
What? The greatest glory to be had in a game is to carry an entire feeding team. You can give up and lose if you want to when your team feeds but I'm just going to continue playing my best. What does playing to win got to do with your team? Nothing. If your team is doing badly and they are fed you have to adjust your play accordingly but it doesn't mean you're going to lose.
At what point does "you should try to challenge yourself" got to do with "playing to lose"? I'm just applying that logic by saying "play against baddies and stomp them = playing to win huehuehue"
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On August 18 2012 04:44 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then? It's about priorities. If you play to win but don't learn anything you'll eventually get stuck. If you play to learn winning is a natural consequence of self-improvement.
That's a chicken/egg argument. If you're playing to win, you're going to be playing at your best, which leads to improvement. So is it better to focus on winning (which leads to harder-to-win games and therefore improvement), or focus on improving (which increases the chance of victory)?
On August 18 2012 04:45 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then? What? The greatest glory to be had in a game is to carry an entire feeding team. You can give up and lose if you want to when your team feeds but I'm just going to continue playing my best. What does playing to win got to do with your team? Nothing. If your team is doing badly and they are fed you have to adjust your play accordingly but it doesn't mean you're going to lose. At what point does "you should try to challenge yourself" got to do with "playing to lose"? I'm just applying that logic by saying "play against baddies and stomp them = playing to win huehuehue"
Yes, carrying a team to victory single-handedly is a great feeling, but that doesn't mean you should look at a game that's 2-10 in the enemy favor and go "Oh boy, this is a good game for me!" Getting upset at allies for dropping the ball and calling them out is a perfectly rational and normal human response.
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What? How is calling them out going to help you win? I've fed more than enough games to realize what my teammates are going through and the last thing they need is somebody flaming them. You don't have to be happy about it, but complaining is not going to help and more likely to make them play even worse.
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On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp?
Please teach me how to play 6v x. I'm guessing about 80% of the playerbase plays to win. In lower elos atleast they only care about winning.
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I really never flame in game unless it's really bad, I just meant here on the forums.
Yes, I'm going to say that some of my losses were due to my team throwing the game. You seem to be saying (and I'm sorry if I'm just misunderstanding) that I should never say that about my teammates because I should just carry harder. I'm not saying I'm just in ELO hell because my teammates suck, but I can list it as a large contributing factor, and I don't feel bad about that.
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On August 18 2012 04:42 Requizen wrote:
/shrug. I've always played and competed under the assumption that victory is the goal. I'd rather get to 1500 and never have a really hard challenge than tell people "I know I'm only 1k, but it's fine because I'm slightly improving".
I also find playing against tougher opponents is a better way to gain skill anyway, rather than playing against a mediocre Akali who just laned against someone bad and goes 12-0 because, well, fed Akali. I don't learn anything from that, other than the fact that Akali snowballs like hell when you let someone bad play against her.
There's plenty to say about challenge, there's plenty to say about tempering skill. But at the end of the day I'd rather have only increased my map awareness by 1% and have 5 wins than have 5 losses but be 4% better at watching the minimap.
I think you are completely misinterpreting what he said. If you play ONLY to win, you should play normals with 5 good guys. Of course you play to win, but you don't play ONLY to win, you play to win a meaningful game. The better you are, and the more you improve, the more you can win games against good people.
The point was that you should not complain about your teammates, and instead consider them to be part of the game which YOU have to solve to lead to a win. Your teammates are not actors, they are pieces of the game you play, in which you want to improve. Thus, you should not complain that your teammates do bad, and instead concentrate on what you can do about it.
Also, the rating comparison is kind of accurate. It just depends on what you compare. Of course having one ranking at one game does not say a lot about which ranking you should have at another game. But, for example, masters is the top 2% of the SC2 ladder population. Bronze in LoL is apparently the top 25%. Sadly, i don't know more of those numbers, but this is the best way to compare the ladders, and a working one.
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Unless you keep duoing with the same bad person, your teammates aren't going to suck more on average than your opponents. Some games you can't salvage at all due to your teammates badness but other games your opponents are so bad you completely dominate, but we tend to attribute those games to our skill rather than the opponents being bad
Also it's perfectly fine to find it easier to carry as ADC than jungle/support, regardless of how many people on the forums say carrying as jungle is ez pz. People have different skillsets.
Also, don't only think about mechanics as the only skill. If you have 1500 elo mechanics and 1500 elo game knowledge but 500 elo leadership then 1100 might be an accurate overall elo for you
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On August 18 2012 04:44 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 03:33 quillian wrote:On August 18 2012 03:29 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 03:22 quillian wrote:
Hi!
I am a longtime sc2 player and newish LoL player. I am curious if anyone can explain how ELO rankings work in terms of SC2 leagues. For instance, is 1400 the equivalent of diamond, 1500 masters, 1200 Gold, etc...
Just trying to get a handle on how hard it is to rank up in LoL vs SC2.
Thanks! After ranking matches, most people are around 1200 to 1300 ELO. I think Plat is around 2k. Basically, Bronze is top 25%, Silver 10%, Gold 3%, Plat .2%. Sorry let me restate: How do SC2 Leagues relate to LoL Leauges? Based on the numbers you give, it sounds like LOL > SC2 Bronze > Plat Silver > Diamond Gold > Masters Plat > GM Does this sound about right? no
It's pretty close. There aren't actually all that many Plat players - anyone who watches streams will know they see the same players show up pretty often.
Remember there's many more LoL players than SC2 players
Bronze is already the top 25% or so of the player population - and by Elo definition, it's guaranteed to be the top 50% of the ranked population, so likening it to plat is, by definition, not too far off.
Plat being GM doesn't entirely work - remember GM is exactly 200 players, and it's only chosen at the beginning of the season, so it's kind of a special case. It's certainly a top tiny fraction of players.
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EPT
