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How strong is Jax? I played him, and it felt like I didn't even have to put much effort into just becoming a monster. I was facing an Ezreal top, so it was kind of annoying early, and their Lee Sin was pretty annoying as well, but I found that it didn't even matter. I could easily outtrade after a few levels, could safely farm, and could not really die past a certain point.
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On August 18 2012 06:13 Dark_Chill wrote:
How strong is Jax? I played him, and it felt like I didn't even have to put much effort into just becoming a monster. I was facing an Ezreal top, so it was kind of annoying early, and their Lee Sin was pretty annoying as well, but I found that it didn't even matter. I could easily outtrade after a few levels, could safely farm, and could not really die past a certain point.
Well, Auzubu Frost used him in both games against CLG.NA and he completely destroyed everything both times, dived into the whole enemy team under tower and somehow never died, so i would say he is competitively very feasable 
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On August 18 2012 06:13 Dark_Chill wrote:
How strong is Jax? I played him, and it felt like I didn't even have to put much effort into just becoming a monster. I was facing an Ezreal top, so it was kind of annoying early, and their Lee Sin was pretty annoying as well, but I found that it didn't even matter. I could easily outtrade after a few levels, could safely farm, and could not really die past a certain point.
Jax is pretty strong but a well played nunu or malphite do very well against him.
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On August 18 2012 06:13 Dark_Chill wrote:
How strong is Jax? I played him, and it felt like I didn't even have to put much effort into just becoming a monster. I was facing an Ezreal top, so it was kind of annoying early, and their Lee Sin was pretty annoying as well, but I found that it didn't even matter. I could easily outtrade after a few levels, could safely farm, and could not really die past a certain point.
Jax is the strongest. Dude doesn't even need a weapon. He has a couple of very hard counters top lane, but does very well against many popular picks. Also viable from the jangle.
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Jax with just TF and a couple DBlades is pretty nightmarish. Good defensive steroid, high burst and sustained damage, mobility, E is just strong in general. He just gets stronger as the game goes on, really snowballs with more items. Plus, he is one of the best bruisers late game at dealing with ADs, thanks to his mobility and counter-strike.
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Preliminary testing gives regen garen advantage against jax top lane.
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garen has always been weirdly good vs jax. other strange counterpicks to jax include:
nasu
pantheon
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jax destroys nasus early levels in lane though.
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Does counterstrike dodge the silence from Garen's Q as well, or just the damage? I'd think he'd have a decent chance if you just bait out spin, get away, then jump in after it's over, but I haven't played it at all. Usually do Jax out of the jungle, anyway, level 3 ganks are super scary, esp with red.
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Counterstrike doesn't block Q in any way.
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I thought it was just a general next hit? Man, counterstrike is wonky. Negates Mystic Shot and Parrley, but not Siphoning and Decisive Strike.
In that case, yeah I can see him doing well v Jax.
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On August 18 2012 06:07 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 05:42 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 05:13 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 05:05 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 04:47 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 04:44 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then? It's about priorities. If you play to win but don't learn anything you'll eventually get stuck. If you play to learn winning is a natural consequence of self-improvement. That's a chicken/egg argument. If you're playing to win, you're going to be playing at your best, which leads to improvement. So is it better to focus on winning (which leads to harder-to-win games and therefore improvement), or focus on improving (which increases the chance of victory)? It's not. There's nothing about playing your best which inherently leads to improvement. You can improve when playing your best, but that has nothing to do with how well you played and everything to do with ability to analyze the game objectively. Playing to win can, in fact, stymie growth by causing a chilling effect on your play. For example, many junglers aren't confident in their ability to directly counter-jungle. As a result the best way to win in the short term is to avoid that risk altogether. Long term the player is stuck until they can put winning aside and learn the skill that they've been avoiding because of the risk. Again, it's not a chicken and egg problem. It's about priorities. That's not entirely true. If I'm playing to win, I'm focusing as hard as I can on things that matter. I'm forcing myself to look at the minimap, to last hit correctly, to position myself in the right place - not because I'm actively attempting to improve myself in those aspects, but because doing them well actively leads to my victory. Eventually, they become habits that I don't have to focus on as much. I don't go into each game thinking "I have to get better at last hitting", I go in with the idea of "last hit as best as possible to win my lane", which eventually leads to becoming better at it in the long run naturally. But in that train of thought, improving and winning are naturally tied hand in hand, hence the chicken/egg argument. It's entirely true. Your skills improve when you focus on them, but when you play to win you focus on winning. Any improvement you experience with that mindset has nothing to do with you playing your best and everything to do with the fact that you focused on last-hitting/awareness/whatever for a few seconds or thought about what went right/wrong after the game was over. Whether you're playing your best or relaxing you get better at what you focus on. On August 18 2012 05:22 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 05:16 ZeromuS wrote:
Not really. you can focus on last hitting and if its good then good you win the lane. But missing something on the minimap isnt the end of the game, its the next on the get better list. But you cant get better by doing everything at once. Right, and then I win that game, which raises my ELO, putting me against harder opponents. Then against those opponents, missing something on the minimap is the difference between Dragon and the enemy team getting it, so I force myself to focus on it, getting better because victory requires it. The next higher level, missing a tiny thing on the minimap is the difference between Baron and a loss, so I have to force myself to focus, etc. We're really saying the same thing, except I'm saying "I'm improving with the intention of getting better to win more", while you're saying "I'm improving with the intention of getting better just to be better". Same difference. Edit: onus isn't the right word. You're not saying the same thing. You're saying, "I focus on winning in order to win and by winning improve." We're saying, "We focus on improving in order to improve and by improving win." Our argument is that the latter mindset is, in the long run, more effectual. Perhaps, but I'd argue that the former mindset is more rewarding. If, in the long run, both mindsets lead to both winning and improving (which you postulated), then the road to that point is either filled with more wins but less effective learning, or more effective learning but possibly less wins. At that point it stops being objective which is better.
The hole in your argument is that focusing on winning only leads to more wins in the short term. Because you're only improving marginally, if at all, you very quickly hit a wall. You may be playing with better people than before, but because of your mindset and the fact that none of those people are particularly inclined (or necessarily informed enough) to critique your play in a constructive fashion you aren't actually getting all that much out of it. It's this mindset that leads to people getting stuck at an Elo wall, wondering why they can't climb any further.
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This argument is completely pointless focusing on winning and improving are both fine expecting your allies to do well and "calling them out" when they feed doesn't help either of those.
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On August 18 2012 06:46 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 06:07 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 05:42 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 05:13 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 05:05 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 04:47 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 04:44 Seuss wrote:On August 18 2012 04:41 arb wrote:On August 18 2012 04:37 Slayer91 wrote:
So you play to win games rather than prove and improve your skill? Why not just play normals with 5 high elo guys and stomp? should we be playing to lose then? It's about priorities. If you play to win but don't learn anything you'll eventually get stuck. If you play to learn winning is a natural consequence of self-improvement. That's a chicken/egg argument. If you're playing to win, you're going to be playing at your best, which leads to improvement. So is it better to focus on winning (which leads to harder-to-win games and therefore improvement), or focus on improving (which increases the chance of victory)? It's not. There's nothing about playing your best which inherently leads to improvement. You can improve when playing your best, but that has nothing to do with how well you played and everything to do with ability to analyze the game objectively. Playing to win can, in fact, stymie growth by causing a chilling effect on your play. For example, many junglers aren't confident in their ability to directly counter-jungle. As a result the best way to win in the short term is to avoid that risk altogether. Long term the player is stuck until they can put winning aside and learn the skill that they've been avoiding because of the risk. Again, it's not a chicken and egg problem. It's about priorities. That's not entirely true. If I'm playing to win, I'm focusing as hard as I can on things that matter. I'm forcing myself to look at the minimap, to last hit correctly, to position myself in the right place - not because I'm actively attempting to improve myself in those aspects, but because doing them well actively leads to my victory. Eventually, they become habits that I don't have to focus on as much. I don't go into each game thinking "I have to get better at last hitting", I go in with the idea of "last hit as best as possible to win my lane", which eventually leads to becoming better at it in the long run naturally. But in that train of thought, improving and winning are naturally tied hand in hand, hence the chicken/egg argument. It's entirely true. Your skills improve when you focus on them, but when you play to win you focus on winning. Any improvement you experience with that mindset has nothing to do with you playing your best and everything to do with the fact that you focused on last-hitting/awareness/whatever for a few seconds or thought about what went right/wrong after the game was over. Whether you're playing your best or relaxing you get better at what you focus on. On August 18 2012 05:22 Requizen wrote:On August 18 2012 05:16 ZeromuS wrote:
Not really. you can focus on last hitting and if its good then good you win the lane. But missing something on the minimap isnt the end of the game, its the next on the get better list. But you cant get better by doing everything at once. Right, and then I win that game, which raises my ELO, putting me against harder opponents. Then against those opponents, missing something on the minimap is the difference between Dragon and the enemy team getting it, so I force myself to focus on it, getting better because victory requires it. The next higher level, missing a tiny thing on the minimap is the difference between Baron and a loss, so I have to force myself to focus, etc. We're really saying the same thing, except I'm saying "I'm improving with the intention of getting better to win more", while you're saying "I'm improving with the intention of getting better just to be better". Same difference. Edit: onus isn't the right word. You're not saying the same thing. You're saying, "I focus on winning in order to win and by winning improve." We're saying, "We focus on improving in order to improve and by improving win." Our argument is that the latter mindset is, in the long run, more effectual. Perhaps, but I'd argue that the former mindset is more rewarding. If, in the long run, both mindsets lead to both winning and improving (which you postulated), then the road to that point is either filled with more wins but less effective learning, or more effective learning but possibly less wins. At that point it stops being objective which is better. The hole in your argument is that focusing on winning only leads to more wins in the short term. Because you're only improving marginally, if at all, you very quickly hit a wall. You may be playing with better people than before, but because of your mindset and the fact that none of those people are particularly inclined (or necessarily informed enough) to critique your play in a constructive fashion you aren't actually getting all that much out of it. It's this mindset that leads to people getting stuck at an Elo wall, wondering why they can't climb any further.
I'm only talking about solo queue here, not inhouses or playing normals with friends. When was the last time you finished a solo queue game and people stuck around in the after-game lobby to chit-chat about plays and improvements? Maybe it's just my ELow, but when I finish a game people either leave immediately or shit-talk/brag.
If we're talking inhouses or other stuff, then that's another story. I'm obviously trying to improve if I'm playing a game that's not going to affect my ELO in any way (unless it's a bot game for silliness or whatever), but I don't view solo-queue ranked as my opportunity to focus on mechanics, I view it as a time to buckle down and win.
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so req, are you saying you view normals as practice and solo queue as a setting where results are what matter? I think it's really interesting how people set up teirs of seriousness and how there's always one layer where it "gets real", the one below that is for practice, and the one below *that* involves a lot of fucking around. I think for most people it's arranged like: dominion, blind pick normals, draft pick normals, ranked, scrims, tournaments, and people pick the highest one they're comfortable with as the start of "serious" play.
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Hey what's the fastest jungle clear time out of all junglers? I found a video for a Mundo clear to level 4 for 3:08 game time, but someone is claiming 3:03 is possible with Shyvana, which I don't think is possible. I figured I'd ask here for some verification.
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I guess so. Ranked is the only mode which keeps track of stats, and even though I'm not competing for money, I feel like that makes it the most competitive. Even if it's not for anything, I'd like my results to show my level of skill when I'm actually trying. I'll be the first to admit that I'm horrible, but that's just how I think about it..
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On August 18 2012 07:35 NEOtheONE wrote:
Hey what's the fastest jungle clear time out of all junglers? I found a video for a Mundo clear to level 4 for 3:08 game time, but someone is claiming 3:03 is possible with Shyvana, which I don't think is possible. I figured I'd ask here for some verification.
Fastest clear time... Well I think I'm fastest with mundo in terms of getting to 4. Of the champions I've played I think mundo is fastest at reaching level 4.
On August 18 2012 06:13 Dark_Chill wrote:
How strong is Jax? I played him, and it felt like I didn't even have to put much effort into just becoming a monster. I was facing an Ezreal top, so it was kind of annoying early, and their Lee Sin was pretty annoying as well, but I found that it didn't even matter. I could easily outtrade after a few levels, could safely farm, and could not really die past a certain point.
I like him and a lot of people like him. I find him really easy to snowball with if I get ahead.
For a trick to jax, try to double tap a minion then go in once you reach level 6. This will allow you to get your first ult proc off faster and will charge up your passive. I think the same can be done with voli, diana, and anyone who uses rageblade.
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I found a google document with jungle clear times, but seeing as there are videos on youtube with faster times, I am a bit conflicted on how accurate the chart is. If we assume the chart allows for a practical gank after hitting 4 then it makes more sense. Jungle Clear Times Spreadsheet
Edit: Diana has a 3:28 which I verified myself by achieving the same result with a slightly different setup of runes. The downside is that the route ends with blue leaving her oom for a few seconds.
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does elo buff have all the stats lolking has?
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EPT
