EPTOn August 25 2012 16:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
eve mid is legit
eve mid is legit
How insightful, thanks bly.
[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 138
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
How insightful, thanks bly. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 25 2012 16:13 WaveofShadow wrote: YES I posted and had a nerdgasm a few pages ago on this. For the record, while I'm happy with these changes because I love Eve, I'm almost in agreement with Yango here. I think the issue Riot is having is that for whatever reason they REALLY don't want to revert her original base stats nerf so they're overbuffing her in other ways, which has now led to the AP mid style of play. She will be absolutely MASSIVE as AP with these buffs. I think Riot really needs to decide what kind of champion they want her to be; either a gimmicky stealth jungler, or a burst nuker/laner. She's not like Diana; she does not have the kit to accomplish both jungling and laning effectively. Diana has the choice to build straight burst damage out of the jungle if she really wants to due to innate survivability from her kit and base stats. Evelynn can't do this because she has nothing in her kit that allows her to survive killing camps and coming out with some actual health left. Diana can afford to build tanky out of the jungle and still bring utility and a decent amount of damage to her ganks since she can gap-close extremely effectively and has a displacement/stun ability. Evelynn can build sustain/tankiness out of the jungle, but then she does no damage and since she has terrible ganking utility (including her ult, tbh) and a weak gapcloser, she needs to snowball EXTREMELY hard to be effective in this case. Ultimately the AP mid variety of Eve is going to be way more effective because: a) of her skills scaling more/better off AP, b) the fact that her low base armor doesn't affect her in mid lane as much as it does in the jungle or top lane, c) and because it allows her to play to her strengths. She can roam from midlane pretty quickly and unseen to wherever she wishes, and she brings actual burst damage to a gank to make up for her lack of utility. My biggest problem with mid Eve these days is I can't figure out THE build on her. I've seen so many variations and tried them all and I can't seem to figure out which one suits her the most. Would appreciate some theorycraft on this one at some point....I've tried in the Eve thread but people tend to ignore it. Let's be fair, Diana basically won the superpower lottery. She has high base stats, high base damage, innate tankiness, the ability to snowball hard or be safe when behind, a pinch of utility, burst damage, sustained damage, and last but not least great scaling. The only thing she lacks is an escape mechanism, but most of the time she doesn't need one because she can just murder everything. Eve, on the other hand, is all over the place. Low base stats, low wave clearing ability, no health sustain, weird ratios all over the place, minimal CC, etc. It's really hard to make sense of it all, which has a lot to do with why no one's sure what to build on her. | ||
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
On August 25 2012 16:31 Craton wrote: 'cept every champ doesn't have the same powercurve. Late game Vayne / Kog / Trist do much more damage than e.g. Sivir or Graves. Early game Urgot / Draven / MF damage crushes. Midgame Graves is stronger than Trist. Same goes for every lane. Late game Irelia is better, Renekton midgame is better. LeBlanc early / mid is better while Ryze is better late. Of course, but that's not what I said :D People whine when riot makes balance patches that normalize a champions powercurve because that character is no longer "unique" or whatever. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:08 MooMooMugi wrote: zulu_nation builds him dorans dorans sorcs sunfire abyssal its legit mang I am witness Yeah I'm talking with him about that right now. It seems so weird to me. Like...if I was gonna go doran's in lane I'd rather go Dring for the safe Q farming. The extra sustain on Dblade i dont think will make enough difference and I'm more likely to pay with my hp/life for having to melee last hit in mid. Bly is talking about Brees build apparently...he says Triforce usually and can go sunfire/abyssal/rageblade/hexdrinker...this is definitely leaning toward a bruiser build rather than AP burst though, and while I can't doubt the success he must have had, that just doesn't feel right to me. I've never liked bruiser Eve, and while I can't disagree that it works sometimes, it essentially forces you to facetank the enemy team to get your damage off, which is arguably less than the quick burst you get with AP. I'd rather have the burst with DFG (which I believe is non-negotiable after Kage's/sorcs) and grab some hybrid AP/tank item like Zhonya's or Abyssal than try to farm up enough for a Triforce on top of that. Her ratios are somuch better for AP I just thjink it's a waste to not make use of them. On a related but separate topic, what about leveling her skills? I figured always R>Q>E>W, but today I've seen two other complete variations. Vman apparently goes Lichbane Dcap and maxes E first (how the shit he pulls that off in lane I have no idea, but his frontloaded burst must be hella scary), and I watched that WaffleGasm guy max W after Q (this was after starting Amp Tome in lane so he could rush Kage faster....ugh). Thoughts? | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=na&league=ranked&type=champion-winrate&range=weekly Most of these look wrong. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:19 zulu_nation8 wrote: you dont get all those items after triforce, it depends on game, usually dblade + tri is core. But I honestly don't see how that's any better. For the same price as Triforce you can get DFG and a Chain vest/Negatron/Sheen/Blasting Wand or whatever towads your next item and you can at least be super useful in roaming ganks with your crazy ass burst at that point. Dblade Triforce Evelynn will be a little less squishy maybe but ultimately do less damage which is all she's good at. I dunno as good as Sheen items are on her theoretically, they force you to be balls deep in a fight autoattacking like crazy to be maximally effective, somewhere Eve doesn't want to be for very long. The quick and effective burst from DFG + Ult + E a couple Q's will asplode any squishy you want and then she can punch it the hell out of there at best (before tanking up a little) or at worst she eliminated a high threat target and it's now a 4v4. I dunno I'm sure I have some misconceptions about how this works and/or how it should be working, but I've played it quite a bit and some variation on this has always worked most effectively for me. I think what I may do is just become one of those guys who just plays Eve mid only or something until I find out what works and why. It just sucks because so many other fucking players have done this before me so I won't be a unique snowflake. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:34 zulu_nation8 wrote: I haven't played her that much but from what I understand, it feels better to build her as sustain damage rather than burst since shes a melee that has no escape. For most champions that relies some kind of sustain/auto attack damage like eve's Q, it's better to build tanky and utility rather than straight up glass cannon. You really don't sacrifice that much damage and you'll be more useful all around. I'll ask inept though but his build feels right. Also her ratios are pretty low and her kit is based around autoattacks. See that's it; I partially agree with you. I don't like building Eve full-on glass cannon since even with her crazy shield form her ultimate, without some mitigation she'll just be blown up anyway. Her ultimate though (and to some extent the slow removal on W) is what allows her to be different. Early on she can afford to burst and get out; she can catch people in 1v1 situations fairly often thanks to her stealth which gives her that advantage where burst is king. Eventually though she has to tank up to prepare for teamfights and once she has done that she can last a little longer, especially with her ultimate +mitigation, and do that autoattacking that her kit draws you towards. Problem I find is, Triforce is extremely expensive early and even the parts of Triforce (aside form Sheen, maybe) don't offer you much damage-wise and they force you to hard-commit in melee range before she can get REAL tanky. I just find the pure AP early is really nice for roaming ganks, and by the time bursting down champions is not nearly as reliable, she can actually survive in a teamfigtht for more than 2 seconds. I don't know, I can objectively see the merit in running her as a bruiser to some extent but I don't like the feel? Maybe it's just a personal thing. She has way too many damn options to try and come up with an optimal build and as was said earlier, her wacky kit and playstyle options compound that issue even further. I think I gotta ask Smash how exactly he arrived at his Nunu build and what he did to develop it.... | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:51 Chexx wrote: how do you train/learn new champions ? normal blind pick? This is what I do, but some people seem to also use ranked to learn champions. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
On August 25 2012 17:41 Node wrote: Man, is it just me or has Graves been nerfed at least every other patch since he was released? Really makes you realize how ludicrously OP he was when he came out. Still not enought plz keep nerfing this guy or even better, remove from game tkx | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
On August 25 2012 19:09 SagaZ wrote: Still not enought plz keep nerfing this guy or even better, remove from game tkx I agree with him getting removed. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:51 Zhiroo wrote: Does Riot even have a clue? Oh Corki does too much burst dmg so we're nerfing that and they don't even look at Graves (Yes I know they're nerfing his AS). They didn't nerf corki's burst nor graves' burst at all. Corki just accumulates missiles slower so he can't burst quite as often. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On August 25 2012 18:51 Chexx wrote: how do you train/learn new champions ? normal blind pick? I usually go normal 5s with guys from LP, if you can do that it's perfect, because you can actually play in a team that makes sense as a whole. After 3-5 games I go to ranked though, normals are really only to get hang of abilities and stuff. | ||
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