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[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 91

Forum Index > LoL General
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Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:02:02
August 08 2012 17:01 GMT
#1801
Iunno...for me I've never had a problem doing wolves->Blue on any viable jungler after the remake... even without a leash.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:02:19
August 08 2012 17:02 GMT
#1802
Wait and see if someone confirms they will leash before buying and leaving fountain? If they agree to, buy boots. No reason not to at that point.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
August 08 2012 17:02 GMT
#1803
On August 09 2012 01:59 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:57 Ryuu314 wrote:
wait wait wait. Is NeotheOne seriously trying to argue that Wolves->Blue is a bad starting path? O_O I thought Wolves->Blue was standard for every jungler that wants to start blue or have I been junglin incorrectly since the jungle remake?

What I'm getting is that he's afraid of bad leashes. Which just don't happen after level 20.


I dunno. I've watched/suffered some REALLY bad leashes at 30 (note: low ELO), to the tune of stolen mobs to nothing at all.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
August 08 2012 17:02 GMT
#1804
On August 09 2012 01:59 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:57 Ryuu314 wrote:
wait wait wait. Is NeotheOne seriously trying to argue that Wolves->Blue is a bad starting path? O_O I thought Wolves->Blue was standard for every jungler that wants to start blue or have I been junglin incorrectly since the jungle remake?

What I'm getting is that he's afraid of bad leashes. Which just don't happen after level 20.


Lol, no they still happen all the darn time. I keep getting people who end up resetting the buffs on me, so this route let me avoid all that drama.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 08 2012 17:02 GMT
#1805
On a random note, I'm considering just not runing for MR anymore on some champs. Like Skarner, for instance, Masteries + Merc's + Wit's is enough MR and comes out fast enough in the mid game to just not worry about it. Nunu goes Merc's + Grail fast, Naut gets Merc's + maybe Wit's + sometimes Aegis + later FoN.

I mean, there are some occasions where MR is better (double AP lanes + AP jungler, or someone like LeBlanc/Ahri being scary early game AP), but as a jungler, a lot of time I feel like the MR is just sort of wasted unless I'm camping mid hardcore. And as I generally spend most of my time clearing, top, or bot and less mid, I'm more inclined to fill my Blues with Armor or something else useful like AP on Diana, maybe CDR on Xin, or more AS or something.

I don't know, probably not efficient, but I never really feel scared vs AP early game, especially early Merc's is so standard on nearly everyone and Wit's/Chalice/Aegis has plenty of early game MR as options.
It's your boy Guzma!
ViZe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1513 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:13:24
August 08 2012 17:03 GMT
#1806
Why are we arguing so much about something that could easily be clarified by testing it in game?

EDIT:

^^ I always thought the reason people have been taking MR or Scaling MR (and generally get MR items) on junglers is because often the most influential characters in the mid-game are short-lane mages and junglers, who, nowadays, clear primarily with skills that give them magic damage. When I'm Level 9 and the enemy mid is Level 11 and has level 2 ult I don't want to get caught with low MR and a low health pool

Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 08 2012 17:06 GMT
#1807
On August 09 2012 02:02 NEOtheONE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:59 obesechicken13 wrote:
On August 09 2012 01:57 Ryuu314 wrote:
wait wait wait. Is NeotheOne seriously trying to argue that Wolves->Blue is a bad starting path? O_O I thought Wolves->Blue was standard for every jungler that wants to start blue or have I been junglin incorrectly since the jungle remake?

What I'm getting is that he's afraid of bad leashes. Which just don't happen after level 20.


Lol, no they still happen all the darn time. I keep getting people who end up resetting the buffs on me, so this route let me avoid all that drama.

buffs resetting is also partially the jungler's fault. If you position yourself properly and are constantly hitting the buff it shouldn't reset if mid lane is the one leashing blue.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
August 08 2012 17:07 GMT
#1808
On August 09 2012 01:59 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:57 Ryuu314 wrote:
wait wait wait. Is NeotheOne seriously trying to argue that Wolves->Blue is a bad starting path? O_O I thought Wolves->Blue was standard for every jungler that wants to start blue or have I been junglin incorrectly since the jungle remake?

What I'm getting is that he's afraid of bad leashes. Which just don't happen after level 20.

Lol, I've gotten better pulls at lvl25(like smiteless pulls when asked etc) compared to 1700elo, where I occasionally get like 1autoattack that's 3seconds late.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
August 08 2012 17:08 GMT
#1809
On August 09 2012 02:03 ViZe wrote:
Why are we arguing so much about something that could easily be clarified by testing it in game?



Because we like to argue?
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
August 08 2012 17:10 GMT
#1810
I mean, yea you get the occasion no leash or bad leash, but they don't happen very often. Even then, with flat armor runes you should be able to do wolves->Blue very safely with boots 3 pot on Diana without a leash. I'm running 21 in defense tho.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 08 2012 17:11 GMT
#1811
On August 08 2012 19:53 Shiv. wrote:
I like how every new strategy instantly becomes THE NEW META. After Kiev, we had everyone and their mums crying about snowball meta, now Azubu pulled out something unexpected and there we go, THE PUSHING META HAS ARRIVED.

Also, saying protect the Kog doesn't work any more because of Soraka ULT nerf and because Lulu got toned down a tad is just hilarious. Protect the Kog existed back when people were building shit like Manamune and MBR on him, and it will keep existing.


How does saying something is viable relate to whether it is optimal (which is what matters for tourney play). The heyday of Protect the Kog was ~ April at IPL4(?). That comp was Kog, Lulu, Soraka, Mundo, Janna/Taric. There are some other champs that could be subbed into that comp and work: Ali and Naut for example.

Since April:

Kog: Void Ooze slow reduced to 20/28/36/44/52% from 28/36/44/52/60%, Living Artillery damage bonus to Champions reduced to 125% from 150%, Living Artillery: additional cost stack maximum increased to 10 from 5 (max mana cost increased to 400 from 200).
Lulu: Glitterlance Ability power ratio reduced to 0.6 from 0.7 Mana cost increased at later ranks to 40/50/60/70/80 from 40/45/50/55/60, Damage adjusted to 80/125/170/215/260 from 80/130/180/230/280. Ability power ratio reduced to 0.5 from 0.6.
Soraka: Starcall: Duration of magic resist reduction decreased to 5 seconds from 8 seconds. Mana cost increased at later ranks to 20/35/50/65/80 from 20/30/40/50/60. Astral Blessing: armor bonus reduced at later ranks to 25/45/65/85/105 from 25/50/75/100/125. Astral Blessing: armor buff duration reduced to 3 seconds from 5. Wish: cooldown increased to 160/145/130 seconds from 120/110/100.
Mundo: Burning Agony: Now has a short cooldown upon activation to avoid accidental disabling. Base damage reduced to 35/50/65/80/95 from 40/55/70/85/100. Crowd control reduction decreased to 10/15/20/25/30% from 15/20/25/30/35%. Fixed a bug where it was reducing the duration of blinds and silences by more than intended. Sadism: cooldown increased to 75 seconds from 65. Sadism: health gained reduced to 40/50/60% of maximum health from 40/55/70%.
Janna:Howling Gale: Now knocks the target further into the air the longer it is channeled (now 80 + 10 per second channeled, from a constant 100). Monsoon: Mana cost reduced to 150/225/300 from 200/275/350. Knock back distance reduced to 875 from 1000. Zephyr: Passive movement speed reduced at earlier ranks to 4/7/10/13/16% from 8/10/12/14/16%. Slow duration reduced to 3 seconds from 4. Monsoon: cooldown increased at earlier ranks to 150/135/120 from 120 seconds at all ranks. Zephyr: Ability Power ratio reduced to 0.6 from 0.8. Janna will no longer sometimes retain the passive bonuses while Zephyr is on cooldown.
Taric: Buffed: Now gains 1.25 magic resist per level.

Other champs that have synergy with the comp:
Naultilus: Titan's Wrath: damage reduced at later ranks to 30/55/80/105/130 from 30/60/90/120/150. Dredge Line: Damage reduced at earlier ranks to 60/105/150/195/240 from 80/120/160/200/240. Cooldown increased at earlier ranks to 18/16/14/12/10 seconds from 14/13/12/11/10. Depth Charge Primary target damage reduced at earlier ranks to 200/325/450 from 250/350/450. Cooldown increased at earlier ranks to 140/110/80 seconds from 120/100/80.
Alistar: Now gains 1.25 magic resist per level. Headbutt: damage adjusted to 55/110/165/220/275 from 85/130/175/220/265. Trample: damage reduced to 7-24 from 10-27. Triumphant Roar: mana cost increased at earlier ranks to 40/50/60/70/80 from 28/41/54/67/80.

Protect the Kog was nerfed because popular supports have consistently been getting nerfed aside from the MR/Lvl buff that was very strong for some of them.
Freeeeeeedom
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
August 08 2012 17:17 GMT
#1812
On August 09 2012 01:47 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 01:45 koreasilver wrote:
I don't know why you're jungling with the assumption that you're not getting a leash. I don't get it at all.

Because solo queue is solo queue.

Either way, Boots is probably my preferred start, seeing as her ganks need all the help they can get. Still not sure as to MS or AP quints, though.

Edit: Ergh, Rune Pages so expensive for IP, almost considering RP buying them just so I don't have to wait and keep switching them.

I get a leash every single game in solo queue and my elo is pretty low (1300~1400). Pretty much the only junglers that has a rough time with shitty pulls (one auto attack) that I play often is Nautilus and Alistar.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
August 08 2012 17:17 GMT
#1813
On August 09 2012 02:03 ViZe wrote:
Why are we arguing so much about something that could easily be clarified by testing it in game?

EDIT:

^^ I always thought the reason people have been taking MR or Scaling MR (and generally get MR items) on junglers is because often the most influential characters in the mid-game are short-lane mages and junglers, who, nowadays, clear primarily with skills that give them magic damage. When I'm Level 9 and the enemy mid is Level 11 and has level 2 ult I don't want to get caught with low MR and a low health pool



Some of the people here may be at work or otherwise in a position where firing up the game is not possible.

You're correct regarding the reason for taking MR on junglers, but what Requizen is suggesting is that you don't necessarily have to rune for it. Most of the popular junglers are going to (or should) build Merc's and Aegis anyway, so if you need MR to safely gank mid lane all you need is 400g and you're set.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
August 08 2012 17:23 GMT
#1814
I even get decent leashes in normal game >.< I haven't had a reset happen to me in like 200 games~
liftlift > tsm
Parametric
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1261 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:25:20
August 08 2012 17:23 GMT
#1815
Any zyra players have opinions on her after the nerfs?

Edit:

On August 09 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I even get decent leashes in normal game >.< I haven't had a reset happen to me in like 200 games~


I get the odd reset when i start red and ask for a big leash. People don't understand that I don't start recurve bow on my junglers =P
Crispy Bacon craving overload.
ViZe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1513 Posts
August 08 2012 17:24 GMT
#1816
That specific comp (3 supports + tank + Kog) was nerfed but I think the only thing that would stop the idea of protect the Kog is nerfing Kog's W damage and range. I mean there are plenty of champions that have come into the meta that still allow it to happen - Nunu was buffed and is viable for jungle, top lane, and support; Sona was buffed (ult is really good for peeling), Janna is just as good outside of lane, just slightly worse in lane; Morgana is still played mid, Heavy CC/peeling jungler is now the norm; Kayle is now played at high level etc.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
August 08 2012 17:24 GMT
#1817
On August 09 2012 02:23 wei2coolman wrote:
I even get decent leashes in normal game >.< I haven't had a reset happen to me in like 200 games~


So jelly.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
StateAlchemist
Profile Joined January 2011
France1946 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 17:26:01
August 08 2012 17:25 GMT
#1818
Got a reset on blue buff a few games ago, support blitz came to help me out (nice guy) and took the blue for himself with a nice AA.
Note to self : dont save smite for a fast red buff in solo queue.

arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
August 08 2012 17:25 GMT
#1819
On August 09 2012 02:02 mordek wrote:
Wait and see if someone confirms they will leash before buying and leaving fountain? If they agree to, buy boots. No reason not to at that point.

Actually what you do when they refuse to leash for you is, you dont touch their lane. And when they proceed to feed and be like, JUNGLE WHY YOU NO GANK. You say what i always say "you remember when i needed help on blue? yeah so do i" then ignore them the rest of the game.

usually some big luls happen
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 08 2012 17:27 GMT
#1820
On August 09 2012 02:17 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 09 2012 02:03 ViZe wrote:
Why are we arguing so much about something that could easily be clarified by testing it in game?

EDIT:

^^ I always thought the reason people have been taking MR or Scaling MR (and generally get MR items) on junglers is because often the most influential characters in the mid-game are short-lane mages and junglers, who, nowadays, clear primarily with skills that give them magic damage. When I'm Level 9 and the enemy mid is Level 11 and has level 2 ult I don't want to get caught with low MR and a low health pool



Some of the people here may be at work or otherwise in a position where firing up the game is not possible.

You're correct regarding the reason for taking MR on junglers, but what Requizen is suggesting is that you don't necessarily have to rune for it. Most of the popular junglers are going to (or should) build Merc's and Aegis anyway, so if you need MR to safely gank mid lane all you need is 400g and you're set.

Yeah, that was kind of what my train of thought was. Flat blues are 12 MR, scaling are less MR early game. If I'm really pressured by AP, I'm going to get NMM (24 MR) early anyway, probably 2 for Merc's + Aegis/Chalice/Wit's (whichever I'm going for on a given champ). Suddenly 12 MR (or .15 per level, only 24, the amount of a NMM, at 18) doesn't feel as useful as stocking it with Armor for safer/healthier clears or another stat for more damage.

I don't know, was just musing.
It's your boy Guzma!
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