On August 08 2012 17:28 Tooplark wrote: YES I love Diana. Finally, a chance to actually bust out the GUINSOO'S RAGEBLADE. That's all you need for damage. Rest is cdr/tank goodies.
Rageblade seems like an odd choice, she's more of a nuker than an autoattacker from what I've seen.
Boots+3 -> dring- > kages -> sorcs -> DFG -> Lich Bane, Zhonyas, Abyssals is what I've heard is a good build for jungle
Love that she's actually a AP jungler that builds AP and not tanky
I think it's better to say that Diana allows a chance to build Nashor's Tooth.
I dunno I'm feeling the tankiness feels better than the AP. You don't get a ton of utility from Zhonya because you'd rather be autoattacking between spells rather than stalling out, so extra tankiness so you can just survive diving in like that feels better than the zhonya active. Also your build is like...14k gold. How exactly does a jungle get that much without the game being a such roflstomp that you can build literally any items you want and win?
I would say an AP bruiser kind of build on Diana is a best fit. Since her kit allow her to jump on someone and/or stand in the middle of the teamfight with your aoe skills. So probably abyssal, rylia's or RoA, FH, lich bane and nashors?
The way people are describing Diana, it really sounds like she should be played top or mid, where she can get the farm she needs to be big and AP-y. Is she good enough in the jungle to keep her out of those lanes, or could she just be played in any solo lane PLUS jungle, whichever you feel like?
She does seem to handle solo lanes well too, and if you're playing from one of those, taking a more farm-reliant AP nuking build might work better. But she does do well in jungle, her only weakness is that her pre-6 ganks are more of "walk in lane and poke them a bit" but her post-6 ganks are very scary - jump on them from a mile away, pull them towards you and your laner + apply a slow, and do a pile of damage. She's a lot like WW in this respect, or an Akali that can actually clear jungle camps fast. She clears quite fast, having 2 AOE abilities + passive, and can pull some lee sin maneuvers to hop around to new camps faster when she has her ult.
Both her base and her scaling damage are respectable (but they really don't seem absurdly high to me), so while you get a lot out of building AP, you still have good damage with lower AP levels from the jungle, and the disruption from E and mobility/durability are still great utility to bring even if you're not exploding people.
High AP builds seem to focus on her burst combo out of WQRR (+ 3 autos), where bruiser builds get more out of her passive and use the QR as a sticking method more than the crux of their damage, and just keep wailing on you with that passive and staying alive with W, using QR to stick to you forever.
On August 08 2012 22:12 AsmodeusXI wrote: The way people are describing Diana, it really sounds like she should be played top or mid, where she can get the farm she needs to be big and AP-y. Is she good enough in the jungle to keep her out of those lanes, or could she just be played in any solo lane PLUS jungle, whichever you feel like?
She's hella fun mid. She trades very well, but once people learn to dodge her Q I don't think she'll cause as many issues. She is susceptible to ganks because her kit is pure dive and no escape, and this can get capitalized on with the many gank paths to mid.
On August 08 2012 22:18 sylverfyre wrote: She does seem to handle solo lanes well too, and if you're playing from one of those, taking a more farm-reliant AP nuking build might work better. But she does do well in jungle, her only weakness is that her pre-6 ganks are more of "walk in lane and poke them a bit" but her post-6 ganks are very scary - jump on them from a mile away, pull them towards you and your laner + apply a slow, and do a pile of damage. She's a lot like WW in this respect, or an Akali that can actually clear jungle camps fast. She clears quite fast, having 2 AOE abilities + passive, and can pull some lee sin maneuvers to hop around to new camps faster when she has her ult.
Both her base and her scaling damage are respectable (but they really don't seem absurdly high to me), so while you get a lot out of building AP, you still have good damage with lower AP levels from the jungle, and the disruption from E and mobility/durability are still great utility to bring even if you're not exploding people.
High AP builds seem to focus on her burst combo out of WQRR (+ 3 autos), where bruiser builds get more out of her passive and use the QR as a sticking method more than the crux of their damage, and just keep wailing on you with that passive and staying alive with W, using QR to stick to you forever.
Hmmm... Okay. I'm way better in top than in jungle, so maybe I'll give her a try there next. I'd love to have her as another top champ rather than try and learn how to jungle better to use her. I guess I'll just have to be good about making sure the AOE doesn't push the lane too much.
On August 08 2012 22:12 AsmodeusXI wrote: The way people are describing Diana, it really sounds like she should be played top or mid, where she can get the farm she needs to be big and AP-y. Is she good enough in the jungle to keep her out of those lanes, or could she just be played in any solo lane PLUS jungle, whichever you feel like?
She's hella fun mid. She trades very well, but once people learn to dodge her Q I don't think she'll cause as many issues. She is susceptible to ganks because her kit is pure dive and no escape, and this can get capitalized on with the many gank paths to mid.
With the gank weakness, does that also make her a more natural top choice? Or would her natural AOE be out of place in that lane?
Guys, guys, what I need to know about Diana please. How does she play in late game teamfights? Can she stand up to other bruisers? Does she get demolished by AD carries as much as most other tanky champions? Does the lack of CC beside her E make her less useful in these late game teamfights? And stuff like that please.
No escape is really dangerous top. You can control your passive AOE when CSing. (the passive "stacks" fade in 3 seconds of no autoattacking.) It might cause problems forcing you to push when trading, but that's something you can deal with. The gank weakness makes her a better mid than top, but then you lose some nifty combo potential Diana has with most AOE AP carries.
In late game teamfights she can stick to a target real well, and whether you play bruiserish or AP bursty, you're going to be able to potentially dive an AD carry and try to blow them up, but nobody's going to NOT get shredded down by an AD carry with several big items if they have the freedom to shoot you. She certainly performs well, her E is long on CD but amazing in teamfights, her aoe is good, her sticking power is good, and her damage is good.
On August 08 2012 22:18 sylverfyre wrote: She does seem to handle solo lanes well too, and if you're playing from one of those, taking a more farm-reliant AP nuking build might work better. But she does do well in jungle, her only weakness is that her pre-6 ganks are more of "walk in lane and poke them a bit" but her post-6 ganks are very scary - jump on them from a mile away, pull them towards you and your laner + apply a slow, and do a pile of damage. She's a lot like WW in this respect, or an Akali that can actually clear jungle camps fast. She clears quite fast, having 2 AOE abilities + passive, and can pull some lee sin maneuvers to hop around to new camps faster when she has her ult.
Both her base and her scaling damage are respectable (but they really don't seem absurdly high to me), so while you get a lot out of building AP, you still have good damage with lower AP levels from the jungle, and the disruption from E and mobility/durability are still great utility to bring even if you're not exploding people.
High AP builds seem to focus on her burst combo out of WQRR (+ 3 autos), where bruiser builds get more out of her passive and use the QR as a sticking method more than the crux of their damage, and just keep wailing on you with that passive and staying alive with W, using QR to stick to you forever.
Hmmm... Okay. I'm way better in top than in jungle, so maybe I'll give her a try there next. I'd love to have her as another top champ rather than try and learn how to jungle better to use her. I guess I'll just have to be good about making sure the AOE doesn't push the lane too much.
On August 08 2012 22:12 AsmodeusXI wrote: The way people are describing Diana, it really sounds like she should be played top or mid, where she can get the farm she needs to be big and AP-y. Is she good enough in the jungle to keep her out of those lanes, or could she just be played in any solo lane PLUS jungle, whichever you feel like?
She's hella fun mid. She trades very well, but once people learn to dodge her Q I don't think she'll cause as many issues. She is susceptible to ganks because her kit is pure dive and no escape, and this can get capitalized on with the many gank paths to mid.
With the gank weakness, does that also make her a more natural top choice? Or would her natural AOE be out of place in that lane?
I played her once top and won lane vs. Riven. I did notice that she pushed lane very easily and unintentionally. That's either just a negative side effect or me not paying enough attention/not being used to top lane.
On August 08 2012 17:28 Tooplark wrote: YES I love Diana. Finally, a chance to actually bust out the GUINSOO'S RAGEBLADE. That's all you need for damage. Rest is cdr/tank goodies.
Rageblade seems like an odd choice, she's more of a nuker than an autoattacker from what I've seen.
Boots+3 -> dring- > kages -> sorcs -> DFG -> Lich Bane, Zhonyas, Abyssals is what I've heard is a good build for jungle
Love that she's actually a AP jungler that builds AP and not tanky
I think it's better to say that Diana allows a chance to build Nashor's Tooth.
Nashor's is still too expensive so even on a champ it should be a perfect fit, it's still a poor choice.
On August 08 2012 21:59 sylverfyre wrote: I dunno I'm feeling the tankiness feels better than the AP. You don't get a ton of utility from Zhonya because you'd rather be autoattacking between spells rather than stalling out, so extra tankiness so you can just survive diving in like that feels better than the zhonya active. Also your build is like...14k gold. How exactly does a jungle get that much without the game being a such roflstomp that you can build literally any items you want and win?
No don't get me wrong, it's not 14k gold, I was just listing solid choices. DFG and abyssals I think are key, though it's possible that an early sheen into lich bane later is also strong.
On August 08 2012 22:08 TheSamuraj wrote: I would say an AP bruiser kind of build on Diana is a best fit. Since her kit allow her to jump on someone and/or stand in the middle of the teamfight with your aoe skills. So probably abyssal, rylia's or RoA, FH, lich bane and nashors?
Possibly, but Diana's kit is basically Jungle Akali through and through. She's a great ganker so why not play to those strengths and build for burst? Rylai's is a solid choice though.
On August 08 2012 22:50 Scip wrote: Guys, guys, what I need to know about Diana please. How does she play in late game teamfights? Can she stand up to other bruisers? Does she get demolished by AD carries as much as most other tanky champions? Does the lack of CC beside her E make her less useful in these late game teamfights? And stuff like that please.
She's a great enabler in teamfights. Diving in and pulling people to her with E sets up for a lot of AOE shenanigans, similar to the Shyvana+Orianna/Lulu synergy we saw at MLG. She can very easily itemize Abyssal and FH and pulls of the very mean Riven-style shield, meaning she gets tankier by building offensive.
Hi, I'd really like to start maining mid lane. Right now I basically only play Ryze mid with a 68% winrate over like 60 games, but I'm looking to expand my arsenal. Safe picks would be preferable to risky ones. What are some strong safe-ish midlane picks besides Ryze (that aren't permabanned haha).
EDIT: Also how viable are MS quints on AD carries?
It's easy to not push lane with your passive if you pay attention. Her passive resets after 3.5 seconds and the aoe on it is pretty small. If you poke/trade with abilities you will push the lane though. Diana's gank weakness means she pretty much cannot be played solo top against a competent team. She has absolutely no escape outside of summoners, the enemy can bait you into pushing the lane, and her only cc draws them closer to you which is counter-productive for escaping ganks.
Hm... now that you mention riven, what if you bult like an AP equivalent to Riven - Deathcap + GA core? Flat AP feels better than the mpen stuff - Abyssal is a better first/second big item on AP mid than you (unless you ARE AP mid) and you can just be a beneficiary of its aura. Zhonya isn't much more armor than a plain chain vest, and the active doesn't exactly synergize with her kit.
Edit: yeah, I meant for a laning Diana. just getting an NLR from the jungle is obnoxious, you don't get to wait that long between recalls, and you often can't be hog blue as jungle Diana.
On August 08 2012 23:10 sylverfyre wrote: Hm... now that you mention riven, what if you bult like an AP equivalent to Riven - Deathcap + GA core? Flat AP feels better than the mpen stuff - Abyssal is a better first/second big item on AP mid than you (unless you ARE AP mid) and you can just be a beneficiary of its aura.
good luck gettin Dcap+GA in the jungle. we just had a discussion about getting dcap from the jungle -.-
if you're taking a solo lane you could probably go 2dring/kage into dcap ga. honestly, if you can get the farm, AP is amazing on her. She has a 0.8 ratio on her Q, 0.6 ratio on her R which can easily be a 1.2 ratio if you double cast it. Her passive has a 0.6 ratio as does her W damage portion. From the jungle though, you probably can't afford AP items as they tend to be pretty expensive. I still gotta experiment more but I feel like if you're jungling her building aspd/tanky/cdr would probably be your best bet.
Also, she's nothing like Riven tbh. Riven can build pure offense and do well because she has insane survivability from the massive heals she gets from lifesteal since her AD amplification steroid is insane + a relatively low cd shield with a 1.0 AD ratio. On the other hand, Diana doesn't get the benefit of self-heal via vamp nearly as well since practically all her abilities are aoe so they scale relatively badly with spellvamp. Her shield is also only 0.4 AP ratio; even with the refresh it'll usually only be about a 0.6~0.7 ratio. It's also on a 10 second cooldown, while Riven's shield is 6 second cd.
On Diana: As far as laning v jungling: She can do both, but they play very differently. I feel like lane Diana is an assassin and should be built as such, but jungle Diana needs at least some fighter items. Haunting Guise was great in the jungle for the extra health and damage at such a cheap cost.
Sheen is a pretty damn good choice. She has some mana issues if she doesn't have blue, and the extra burst is pretty damned good on her. The AP and MR on Lichbane don't hurt either.
I really prefer AS reds on her. MPen are good, but I'm usually either going to get Guise, Abyssal, or both, and I feel better with more passive procs than extra magic damage.
Chalice is funky. If you really need an ass-ton of MR it's nice to pile on top of other stuff, and the mana regen is nice in the jungle, but it offers very little compared to other items you can get. Grail might be nice, but I doubt it'd be my first choice.
DFG is nice on her, but I also felt like Morello's was a solid choice for her to build Kage's into if you don't need the extra burst. 5% higher CDR, 5 less AP, and a bit of mana regen for ~300 less gold wasn't a bad choice if they aren't building health.
I just ended up selling Philo after it paid itself off. Reverie didn't feel necessary on her, and I started getting some mana and mana regen from other places.
Randuin's feels like a bad choice on her. Zhonya (if fed) and FH are much better armor options. Sure, the active is nice, but CDR/mana/passive and AP/active are much much better for her.
On August 08 2012 23:10 sylverfyre wrote: Hm... now that you mention riven, what if you bult like an AP equivalent to Riven - Deathcap + GA core? Flat AP feels better than the mpen stuff - Abyssal is a better first/second big item on AP mid than you (unless you ARE AP mid) and you can just be a beneficiary of its aura.
Riven goes BT GA because when she came out the bruiser resistance items(Wit's/Atmas) were/are bad on her and the GA passive gives you the ability to save your stacks. If you're laning Diana I suppose rushing Dcap could works, but farming up NLR from the jungle can be a pain unless you get a strong start. I know I stopped jungling with Riven because trying to wait for BF was a major hassle and I had to settle for piecing together hexdrinker.
As far as Abyssal vs Deathcap, by cost its more like Abyssal + Blasting Wand vs Deathcap. For more on this specific issue, this video can explain it better than I. There is an article about it, but I'm unable to find it at the moment.
EPT
