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On August 01 2012 03:24 QuakerOats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:16 TheYango wrote:On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level. You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again? 1v1s oversimplify laning though. I remember a while back Hotshot and Chauster got in an argument cuz they were doing a 1v1, and when Chauster went back to base early on (lvl 3 or so) Hotshot started farming past the turret. Chauster told him he would never be able to do that in a real game because the jungler/mid would come up and kill him; Hotshot disagreed, and from what I remember they never came to a consensus. You can get away with a lot more stuff when you know there is no jungler or other lanes to worry about, so I think solo queue is actually probably better practice (although you can definitely learn stuff from 1v1s).
The junglers should practice at the same time... but then you could say "but the jungler would be ganking top now instead".
If you follow some rules, 1v1 can be good early game practice but it never really can replace 5v5 practice.
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On August 01 2012 03:24 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:On August 01 2012 03:14 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2012 03:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time. /shrug At least you saw some variance in builds. It gets a bit grating seeing bruiser top, caster mid, AD bot with 0 farm support, and tanky/CC jungler every game. The only variation is like, occasionally you see an assassin mid or a high-damage jungler, and sometimes bot and top switch lanes to counter something. Not to mention the builds being nearly exactly the same for every single person for a given role every time. I'll admit that it got stale for stretches, but at least the play was always exciting. For every cool composition we see in LoL, there are 10 more games playing "farm until late game and then protect the Kog/Vayne" for the umpteenth time. I disagree, There seems to be shift in meta right now, in high tourney play. 1v2 seems to be a popular lane choice now, sending someone like gangplank bot, to 1v2, while 2v1ing top, and trying to abuse that as hard as possible. I think by season 3 we'll see a huge evolution in the meta, and more well thought out team comps. It's not really a difference, though. I see the same thing a lot with Shen, Kayle, or Yorick switching lanes, but it's the exact same team comp, just abusing the fact that some solo laners can 1v2 safely and others can't. Actually, I'm sure that if WotA Nunu picks up steam, we'll see him do the lane switch as well. The only awkward thing this does to the meta is that it moves a player away from dragon, but as long as your support/AD top wins lane (which they should against most non-godly tops), the support at least is free to roam for control. Now a big meta shift would be like, bringing back actual roam supports as an actual thing, and not "oh my lane is winning, may as well roam". The days of picking Taric to just more or less never be in lane and constantly roam and stun was hilariously fun.
How is going back to old meta, a big change to the meta? :O
Imo I want to see supports that have strong damaging spells, that have high base damage, but poor scaling, similar to some of the "supports" in dota.
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On August 01 2012 03:37 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:24 QuakerOats wrote:On August 01 2012 03:16 TheYango wrote:On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level. You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again? 1v1s oversimplify laning though. I remember a while back Hotshot and Chauster got in an argument cuz they were doing a 1v1, and when Chauster went back to base early on (lvl 3 or so) Hotshot started farming past the turret. Chauster told him he would never be able to do that in a real game because the jungler/mid would come up and kill him; Hotshot disagreed, and from what I remember they never came to a consensus. You can get away with a lot more stuff when you know there is no jungler or other lanes to worry about, so I think solo queue is actually probably better practice (although you can definitely learn stuff from 1v1s). The junglers should practice at the same time... but then you could say "but the jungler would be ganking top now instead". If you follow some rules, 1v1 can be good early game practice but it never really can replace 5v5 practice.
I've done 1v1's for practice in top lane. The #1 thing 1v1 toplanes can teach you, is how to play certain matchups when it comes to learning how to exchange in early game, and when to harass/get cs. etc etc.
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On August 01 2012 03:37 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:24 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2012 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:On August 01 2012 03:14 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2012 03:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time. /shrug At least you saw some variance in builds. It gets a bit grating seeing bruiser top, caster mid, AD bot with 0 farm support, and tanky/CC jungler every game. The only variation is like, occasionally you see an assassin mid or a high-damage jungler, and sometimes bot and top switch lanes to counter something. Not to mention the builds being nearly exactly the same for every single person for a given role every time. I'll admit that it got stale for stretches, but at least the play was always exciting. For every cool composition we see in LoL, there are 10 more games playing "farm until late game and then protect the Kog/Vayne" for the umpteenth time. I disagree, There seems to be shift in meta right now, in high tourney play. 1v2 seems to be a popular lane choice now, sending someone like gangplank bot, to 1v2, while 2v1ing top, and trying to abuse that as hard as possible. I think by season 3 we'll see a huge evolution in the meta, and more well thought out team comps. It's not really a difference, though. I see the same thing a lot with Shen, Kayle, or Yorick switching lanes, but it's the exact same team comp, just abusing the fact that some solo laners can 1v2 safely and others can't. Actually, I'm sure that if WotA Nunu picks up steam, we'll see him do the lane switch as well. The only awkward thing this does to the meta is that it moves a player away from dragon, but as long as your support/AD top wins lane (which they should against most non-godly tops), the support at least is free to roam for control. Now a big meta shift would be like, bringing back actual roam supports as an actual thing, and not "oh my lane is winning, may as well roam". The days of picking Taric to just more or less never be in lane and constantly roam and stun was hilariously fun. How is going back to old meta, a big change to the meta? :O Imo I want to see supports that have strong damaging spells, that have high base damage, but poor scaling, similar to some of the "supports" in dota.
Well, not a shift, but at least variety. It would be interesting to see some games with 0 CS babysitting supports and some games with roaming gank supports, but instead we have all from column A and none from column B.
My wording needs work.
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hatperson and red baron so knowledgeable I feel like watching IPL stream is unlocking the secrets of lol for me.
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I just had a guy that banned nunu rofl,smash broke solo que already.
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On August 01 2012 04:31 TheKefka wrote:
I just had a guy that banned nunu rofl,smash broke solo que already.
The second the rumble nerf hits, nunu is going to be the next major target~.
Freaking smash...
Has any notable top pro player adapted the nunu top lane w/ smash's build?
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On August 01 2012 04:36 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 04:31 TheKefka wrote:
I just had a guy that banned nunu rofl,smash broke solo que already. The second the rumble nerf hits, nunu is going to be the next major target~. Freaking smash... Has any notable top pro player adapted the nunu top lane w/ smash's build?
Voyboy ran it on stream yesterday
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On August 01 2012 04:39 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 04:36 wei2coolman wrote:On August 01 2012 04:31 TheKefka wrote:
I just had a guy that banned nunu rofl,smash broke solo que already. The second the rumble nerf hits, nunu is going to be the next major target~. Freaking smash... Has any notable top pro player adapted the nunu top lane w/ smash's build? Voyboy ran it on stream yesterday
What did he have to say about it?
Also, does anyone have link to vod of shake's nunu game w/ SV?
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im getting the feeling irelia crushes everyone top and there's no champion in the game that can guarantee lane advantage. Everyone gets wrecked if they fall behind.
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On August 01 2012 04:49 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 04:39 Perplex wrote:On August 01 2012 04:36 wei2coolman wrote:On August 01 2012 04:31 TheKefka wrote:
I just had a guy that banned nunu rofl,smash broke solo que already. The second the rumble nerf hits, nunu is going to be the next major target~. Freaking smash... Has any notable top pro player adapted the nunu top lane w/ smash's build? Voyboy ran it on stream yesterday What did he have to say about it? Also, does anyone have link to vod of shake's nunu game w/ SV?
He didn't talk about it much because the caitlyn on the enemy team started intentionally feeding and his team just 5 man pushed mid and won in ~25 minutes. He got 5 kills though and started buying the correct items (chalice, part of glacial, mercs). All I know is that he (and clg) are aware of the build.
Zulu you don't even think tiger udyr?
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for the first 3 levels maybe, too easy to make up disadvantage with rune/masteries, when W is level'd up a few levels no top in the game wins trades vs her if she's slightly ahead. Because so, I don't even think you need to ever run defensive quints vs her and can probably skimp on defensive seals/glyphs in favor of AS in respect to the matchup.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On August 01 2012 05:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
im getting the feeling irelia crushes everyone top and there's no champion in the game that can guarantee lane advantage. Everyone gets wrecked if they fall behind.
Irelia is one of the maybe 3 easiest top lanes to gank in the lane. First of all, her only escape is Q to a creep or her E, which is 1 second stun (shouldn't be a big deal as long as both top lane and jungler has any form of CC). Second, her damage (apart from ultimate, unimportant) is melee only, which makes her very vulnarable very often, if she wants to push any advantage she might have.
I obviously have no idea about how laning goes against her, but she is almost as easy to gank as Darius is. I dunno if it actually does anything, but try to ask your jungler to gank early (in champ select or before 1:20, preferably)
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On August 01 2012 05:33 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 05:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
im getting the feeling irelia crushes everyone top and there's no champion in the game that can guarantee lane advantage. Everyone gets wrecked if they fall behind. Irelia is one of the maybe 3 easiest top lanes to gank in the lane
LOL
She has 2 abilities which help her escape.
Any from behind ganks can be Q-->E'd run away, and any straight up ganks she can still juke around. She's no ungankable but "top 3 easiest to gank" is hilariously stupid.
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On August 01 2012 05:35 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 05:33 Scip wrote:On August 01 2012 05:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
im getting the feeling irelia crushes everyone top and there's no champion in the game that can guarantee lane advantage. Everyone gets wrecked if they fall behind. Irelia is one of the maybe 3 easiest top lanes to gank in the lane LOL She has 2 abilities which help her escape. Any from behind ganks can be Q-->E'd run away, and any straight up ganks she can still juke around. She's no ungankable but "top 3 easiest to gank" is hilariously stupid.
E is probably the only real escape. Q is only viable if you're being beyond aggressive, and get caught doing so.
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Ganks from behind? Jukes from bush to creep wave? Escapes down river?
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On August 01 2012 05:35 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 05:33 Scip wrote:On August 01 2012 05:22 zulu_nation8 wrote:
im getting the feeling irelia crushes everyone top and there's no champion in the game that can guarantee lane advantage. Everyone gets wrecked if they fall behind. Irelia is one of the maybe 3 easiest top lanes to gank in the lane LOL She has 2 abilities which help her escape. Any from behind ganks can be Q-->E'd run away, and any straight up ganks she can still juke around. She's no ungankable but "top 3 easiest to gank" is hilariously stupid.
Please, make me a gift of a list of champions that are easier to gank than irelia, your Brilliance.
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Isn't the whole 'limits of solo queue' the whole reason CLG picked up a second NA team? They wanted somebody they could consistently practice with cooperatively. then they moved to korea
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i feel like irelia is top 3 hardest lane to gank...
if lv2 ganked from behind when you're lv1, hide in brush, Q to ganker, flash to tower if you have to. Otherwise if you max E it's like a 2 sec stun, it's impossible to die with flash up, without flash it's still hard. I don't think any other top laner has a dash and a stun to escape from ganks.
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EPT
