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On August 01 2012 02:20 kainzero wrote:
i don't understand what people are talking about when they say mechanics in LoL, can someone explain?
i can understand it in BW because i always assumed mechanics were doing what you want to do, doing it quickly, and doing it efficiently without wasting time. getting to a high mechanical level meant that you were able to organize and move your troops well and macro properly.
i dunno what it means in LoL though.
There obviously isn't macro in LoL, but it's more micro oriented. Things like last hitting, proper positioning (especially for AD carries and mages), harassing, mana management, etc. Then game mechanics like ward placement/timing, timing buffs, and just general minimap awareness.
There are many pro players who excel at all of these, yet at the same time, there are plenty that get caught without wards, overextend when they clearly can't see the mid laner/jungler, and will stand in front as the AD.
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I ( 1700 elo player) have been smurfing in the 1200 with my friend who was 1100 until i carried him to almost 1500 now.
we play exclusively xin Zhao ( him) and Blitzcrank ( me) botlane and are 12 wins 0 losses so far.
Op shit! nuff said
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 01 2012 02:32 AsnSensation wrote:
I ( 1700 elo player) have been smurfing in the 1200 with my friend who was 1100 until i carried him to almost 1500 now.
we play exclusively xin Zhao ( him) and Blitzcrank ( me) botlane and are 12 wins 0 losses so far.
Op shit! nuff said
If you want to have even more fun, do Ali+blitz. that lane is fucking AMAZING to play.
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Xin Zhao has more damage though!
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I used to do something similar with my friend (we ran Leona/Jarvan). It stopped working at ~1600 though. We were only able to get 1 maybe 2 kills in lane phase, and then in team fights we just suffered from not having a real AD carry 
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yeah getting galio or amumu in the enemy team is a real pain in the ass, i saw xpecial and dyrus going j4 leona once and wanted to try it with my friend but he never wanted to but after going blitz xin in a normal game he agreed to let me carry him ( he was one of those guys with elo/ladder anxiety)
I also heard of alistar/blitz but does that lane have enough dmg to kill?^^ bltz xin is like insta gib when grabbed and if they know how to avoid grab walk up to them powerfist force flash and scream NOOOPE grab ^^ so funny
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On August 01 2012 02:14 Gorsameth wrote:
For me the fact that soloQ is still an acceptable form of practice for tournaments shows the immaturity of the LoL scene.
The longer competitive LoL is around the less useless soloQ will become. Especialy now that asia who have actual training practices come on board.
There are over 100 champs, it is not possible to test every combination to see what works and doesn't. Soloque is a space where pro players can catch on to other people's innovations, see what works and what doesn't, and in the end, steal from those itterations.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2012 02:19 Requizen wrote:
I really doubt LoL will ever get to the point of BW, where every single top player has near-perfect mechanics and practicing them in solo queue is a waste of time.
Why not?
On August 01 2012 02:24 wei2coolman wrote:
btw, i think it's safe to say, doublelift is the best ad carry in the world right now, especially w chau support.
Weixiao, Bebe, Tabe if he were still actually playing AD.
Not all that clear cut, especially when Doublelift himself admits to these players being as good as or better than him.
On August 01 2012 02:51 hacpee wrote:
There are over 100 champs, it is not possible to test every combination to see what works and doesn't. Soloque is a space where pro players can catch on to other people's innovations, see what works and what doesn't, and in the end, steal from those itterations.
Obviously pub play is still useful. But the point is that they shouldn't treat it as equivalent to practice.
Professional DotA just treats pub DotA as a separate game that most of the players enjoy playing in their free time--but it counts as their free time, and not as practice.
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On August 01 2012 02:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:19 Requizen wrote:
I really doubt LoL will ever get to the point of BW, where every single top player has near-perfect mechanics and practicing them in solo queue is a waste of time. Why not? Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:24 wei2coolman wrote:
btw, i think it's safe to say, doublelift is the best ad carry in the world right now, especially w chau support. Weixiao, Bebe, Tabe if he were still actually playing AD. Not all that clear cut, especially when Doublelift himself admits to the strength of these players. Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:51 hacpee wrote:
There are over 100 champs, it is not possible to test every combination to see what works and doesn't. Soloque is a space where pro players can catch on to other people's innovations, see what works and what doesn't, and in the end, steal from those itterations. Obviously pub play is still useful. But the point is that they shouldn't treat it as equivalent to practice. Professional DotA just treats pub DotA as a separate game that most of the players enjoy playing in their free time--but it counts as their free time, and not as practice.
I don't know if you can really compare 5's dota to 5's league. as of now anyways. there's pretty limited mobility in terms of roaming/ganking in comparison of Dota to League~, so coordination plays a bigger part in Dota in early game, than in early game of League.
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On August 01 2012 02:55 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:19 Requizen wrote:
I really doubt LoL will ever get to the point of BW, where every single top player has near-perfect mechanics and practicing them in solo queue is a waste of time. Why not? Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 02:24 wei2coolman wrote:
btw, i think it's safe to say, doublelift is the best ad carry in the world right now, especially w chau support. CaptainJack, Weixiao, Bebe, Tabe if he were still actually playing AD.
Eh, I dunno. I really, really like LoL, both watching and playing, but I just don't think it has the sticking power that BW had for a handful of reasons. Team and player structure is so iffy (especially with the drama that crops up every bloody week), for one. And I've just never got the feeling of "oh man, I'm going to be watching this for the next 5 years and see how it evolves" that I got from BW or even get from SC2. Maybe that's a byproduct of the very stale meta right now, but /shrug.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:02 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't know if you can really compare 5's dota to 5's league. as of now anyways. there's pretty limited mobility in terms of roaming/ganking in comparison of Dota to League~, so coordination plays a bigger part in Dota in early game, than in early game of League.
The thing is, any skill that can be isolated as an "individual" skill can also be isolated and drilled in a controlled environment (such as 1v1 lane matchups). Which, all in all, is probably a more efficient way to practice those things than playing solo queue games where the probability of getting the role you want, the matchup you want, AND an opponent that's skilled enough to actually be worthwhile practice is insanely low.
On August 01 2012 03:02 Requizen wrote:
Eh, I dunno. I really, really like LoL, both watching and playing, but I just don't think it has the sticking power that BW had for a handful of reasons. Team and player structure is so iffy (especially with the drama that crops up every bloody week), for one. And I've just never got the feeling of "oh man, I'm going to be watching this for the next 5 years and see how it evolves" that I got from BW or even get from SC2. Maybe that's a byproduct of the very stale meta right now, but /shrug.
lol
Chinese DotA actually has WAY more drama than League ever has, with regard to teams buying and trading players around, and the scene is alive and kicking.
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On August 01 2012 03:04 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:02 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't know if you can really compare 5's dota to 5's league. as of now anyways. there's pretty limited mobility in terms of roaming/ganking in comparison of Dota to League~, so coordination plays a bigger part in Dota in early game, than in early game of League. The thing is, any skill that can be isolated as an "individual" skill can also be isolated and drilled in a controlled environment (such as 1v1 lane matchups). Which, all in all, is probably a more efficient way to practice those things than playing solo queue games where the probability of getting the role you want, the matchup you want, AND an opponent that's skilled enough to actually be worthwhile practice is insanely low.
As far as getting the roles you want, at the highest elo, most players know which players get what position, it's pretty rare to see TOO not get jungle, just like it's pretty rare for me to see Scarra not get mid~
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level.
Not to mention pro's can learn a lot in solo queue imo.
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Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time.
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On August 01 2012 03:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time.
/shrug
At least you saw some variance in builds. It gets a bit grating seeing bruiser top, caster mid, AD bot with 0 farm support, and tanky/CC jungler every game. The only variation is like, occasionally you see an assassin mid or a high-damage jungler, and sometimes bot and top switch lanes to counter something. Not to mention the builds being nearly exactly the same for every single person for a given role every time.
I'll admit that it got stale for stretches, but at least the play was always exciting. For every cool composition we see in LoL, there are 10 more games playing "farm until late game and then protect the Kog/Vayne" for the umpteenth time.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level.
You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again?
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On August 01 2012 03:16 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level. You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again?
I think it'd be great if we saw more of this, random top end players calling one another and asking for a 1v1 practice lane.
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On August 01 2012 03:14 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time. /shrug At least you saw some variance in builds. It gets a bit grating seeing bruiser top, caster mid, AD bot with 0 farm support, and tanky/CC jungler every game. The only variation is like, occasionally you see an assassin mid or a high-damage jungler, and sometimes bot and top switch lanes to counter something. Not to mention the builds being nearly exactly the same for every single person for a given role every time. I'll admit that it got stale for stretches, but at least the play was always exciting. For every cool composition we see in LoL, there are 10 more games playing "farm until late game and then protect the Kog/Vayne" for the umpteenth time.
I disagree, There seems to be shift in meta right now, in high tourney play. 1v2 seems to be a popular lane choice now, sending someone like gangplank bot, to 1v2, while 2v1ing top, and trying to abuse that as hard as possible. I think by season 3 we'll see a huge evolution in the meta, and more well thought out team comps.
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On August 01 2012 03:18 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:16 TheYango wrote:On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level. You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again? I think it'd be great if we saw more of this, random top end players calling one another and asking for a 1v1 practice lane.
I think jiji playing 1v1 againstt only froggen will make him play sloppy in some aspect (dont' get me wrong I think he'll learn a lot doing so), but then he'll try and take advantage of froggen habits, or what not, and he'll end up stuck playing anti-froggen style, against other types of mids, and that might not work against other types of mids.
solo queue is good for rounding out your play, just like SC2 players use the ladder to make their builds cheese proof, after initial prototyping.
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On August 01 2012 03:19 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:14 Requizen wrote:On August 01 2012 03:11 Bladeorade wrote:
Yeah because the brood war Meta was never stale for long periods of time. /shrug At least you saw some variance in builds. It gets a bit grating seeing bruiser top, caster mid, AD bot with 0 farm support, and tanky/CC jungler every game. The only variation is like, occasionally you see an assassin mid or a high-damage jungler, and sometimes bot and top switch lanes to counter something. Not to mention the builds being nearly exactly the same for every single person for a given role every time. I'll admit that it got stale for stretches, but at least the play was always exciting. For every cool composition we see in LoL, there are 10 more games playing "farm until late game and then protect the Kog/Vayne" for the umpteenth time. I disagree, There seems to be shift in meta right now, in high tourney play. 1v2 seems to be a popular lane choice now, sending someone like gangplank bot, to 1v2, while 2v1ing top, and trying to abuse that as hard as possible. I think by season 3 we'll see a huge evolution in the meta, and more well thought out team comps.
It's not really a difference, though. I see the same thing a lot with Shen, Kayle, or Yorick switching lanes, but it's the exact same team comp, just abusing the fact that some solo laners can 1v2 safely and others can't. Actually, I'm sure that if WotA Nunu picks up steam, we'll see him do the lane switch as well.
The only awkward thing this does to the meta is that it moves a player away from dragon, but as long as your support/AD top wins lane (which they should against most non-godly tops), the support at least is free to roam for control.
Now a big meta shift would be like, bringing back actual roam supports as an actual thing, and not "oh my lane is winning, may as well roam". The days of picking Taric to just more or less never be in lane and constantly roam and stun was hilariously fun.
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On August 01 2012 03:16 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2012 03:10 wei2coolman wrote:
Also, the whole ELO system is there so you will play with opponents that are around your skill level. You really think that Jiji playing random solo queue opponents would be remotely comparable to him 1v1ing Froggen over and over again?
1v1s oversimplify laning though. I remember a while back Hotshot and Chauster got in an argument cuz they were doing a 1v1, and when Chauster went back to base early on (lvl 3 or so) Hotshot started farming past the turret. Chauster told him he would never be able to do that in a real game because the jungler/mid would come up and kill him; Hotshot disagreed, and from what I remember they never came to a consensus. You can get away with a lot more stuff when you know there is no jungler or other lanes to worry about, so I think solo queue is actually probably better practice (although you can definitely learn stuff from 1v1s).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9gG2G.jpg)
