EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page…
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 31 2012 23:20 wei2coolman wrote: As far as lack of sustain, I agree, I've definitely found myself constantly wishing I could regen up my hp bars up, but usually lack of mana forces me back to base really often, so usually I have mana problems, a lot more than I have with lifesteal problems~ (btw blue buff op'd on laning jayce). I like wit's, mostly because it allows for better overall pushing, it just feels so versatile, not to mention it synergies with his ranged version of W, get that mr procs up really fast. Triforce just feels so damn bursty, I feel like jayces strength is his burst damage, and that though BT is strong, it sort of limits him, and like you said, you can probably only afford to get one or the other. I generally don't find mana to be an issue, but that might just be at my ELO. I usually harass out/out-trade most top laners and then get to go in with Hammer W passive and fill my mana bar up, might be harder as opponents get better. As to BT and TF, you have to look at how crazy his AD scaling is. Hammer Q is 1.0 AD AoE around your target, Cannon Q is 1.2/1.6 AD depending if you Gate it or not, and Hammer E is 1.0 AD on top of the % health. Something that was also brought to my attention while discussing him is the fact that you chain your abilities together really fast (Cannon W/shift to hammer/Hammer Q), so you often don't get as many procs as you think you would. I don't know. I generally feel stronger with a BT under my belt for fighting, but I also have quite a few won games with Trinity as well. Phage and Sheen might provide a bit nicer transition as well, rather than sitting on DBlades until you can afford BT. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 31 2012 23:21 obesechicken13 wrote: In addition to using replays to improve more quickly, I think playing in a more controlled setting like arranged 5v5 scrims is another way to get better faster at a certain champ and setting. Solo Queue too variable. If you want to get better at solo queue though, solo queue all the way. Personally, my improvement is largely attributed to the fact that I started playing with a consistent group of people. Season 1, I barely made gold. I wouldn't be nearly the mid player I am without the consistent backing of a team to call out my mistakes and offer criticism, as well as the critique from people like Navi. It's important to go in with a goal in mind. Every once in a while, I'll go a few games with the mind set of "I'm going to farm as hard as I can this game", and I notice an increase in my overall cs. Enough games of this, and it starts to be more second nature, and I can be more useful to the team with more moneys. Solo queue is certainly more variable than team games, but if you go in with a goal, regardless of what happens or where your elo goes, you can evaluate yourself. Did you achieve your goal? If yes, awesome, do it again and again until it becomes consistent. If not, what can you do to reach your goal? | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On July 31 2012 23:26 r.Evo wrote: Imo just treat them as seperate games. Sure, lots of skills transition between solo q and arranged play but some are completely irrelevant for the other. I'd disagree with that. First of all, the mechanics are exactly the same - last hitting, laning, jungle paths, trying to predict enemy jungle - all exactly the same. The biggest differences are 1. actually having a plan and 2. less derp, if you have voice chat you can shout at people who farm bottom instead of guarding baron more effectively. But soloQ is in my opinion a very good way of practicing for 5man team (though obviously not as good as just playing ranked 5s or scrims). | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 01 2012 00:00 Scip wrote: I'd disagree with that. First of all, the mechanics are exactly the same - last hitting, laning, jungle paths, trying to predict enemy jungle - all exactly the same. The biggest differences are 1. actually having a plan and 2. less derp, if you have voice chat you can shout at people who farm bottom instead of guarding baron more effectively. But soloQ is in my opinion a very good way of practicing for 5man team (though obviously not as good as just playing ranked 5s or scrims). No, Solo q and arranged 5s are totally different things. This is why the more established teams like TSM and CLG regularly dominate newer teams even if the individual players may not have skill differentials that wide. It's also why teams have kicked players (lookin at you SV) who are definitely very talented players, but simply don't mesh well with the team and have seen noticeable improvement in their play overall. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On August 01 2012 00:13 Ryuu314 wrote: No, Solo q and arranged 5s are totally different things. This is why the more established teams like TSM and CLG regularly dominate newer teams even if the individual players may not have skill differentials that wide. It's also why teams have kicked players (lookin at you SV) who are definitely very talented players, but simply don't mesh well with the team and have seen noticeable improvement in their play overall. Implying CLG and TSM actually play arranged 5s outside of tourneys. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 01 2012 00:22 JackDino wrote: Implying CLG and TSM actually play arranged 5s outside of tourneys. They scrim from time to time. I'm not sure what you're trying to say? | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On July 31 2012 23:20 r.Evo wrote: The advice "play more" to improve something specific is in almost all cases horrible, scip and Teut are 100% on the spot for this. If you somehow feel/think that there is a specific part of your play that lacks behind or would benefit your overall game the most by improving it, find ways to focus on that one task entirely for a couple of games even if it means that you play overall worse. This goes back to "if you're bad at CSing, focus on CSing and ignore harass, if you're bad at harassing ignore CS and focus on harass." - something like this will always net better results more quickly than "Try to harass as much as possible while taking as many CS as possible" for a similar amount of games. Once you're done with those exercises you can throw it all out of the window and just play "normal" again, if you practiced properly the improvements will show. I think what Scip picked up on that you did not was that ultimately Scip and I were making the same point with different language and our disagreement was basically one of semantics and emphasis. We both are of the same mind that improvement requires a certain mentality, focus, or goal while one plays. The difference in emphasis is likely because most people Scip knows who are trying to improve lack the proper mentality, whereas most of my friends have the right mentality but tend to shy away from actually playing the game. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14079 Posts
On August 01 2012 00:00 Scip wrote: I'd disagree with that. First of all, the mechanics are exactly the same - last hitting, laning, jungle paths, trying to predict enemy jungle - all exactly the same. The biggest differences are 1. actually having a plan and 2. less derp, if you have voice chat you can shout at people who farm bottom instead of guarding baron more effectively. But soloQ is in my opinion a very good way of practicing for 5man team (though obviously not as good as just playing ranked 5s or scrims). Erhm. Just no. Part of the skills you need in solo q but not in arranged play: Selfishness ("I trust myself more than random people"), higher situational awareness (can't rely on all available information being conveyed properly), psychology (keeping morale up in solo q is utterly different from arranged play), adjusting to which calls your team is going to make despite disagreeing big time (e.g. some people ping baron some inhib, even if you'd be 100% sure that inhib is the better target trying to do it with 2 guys instead of going to baron with the 3 others can be a crucial mistake). Sure, mechanical skills are the same but mechanics are arguable one of the smallest skillsets needed for a game like League. Morale, communication and tactics/strategy are way more important and hardly easy to train with random people. Hell, even decisionmaking might vary greatly. Questions of e.g. whether to peel or to pressure can vary greatly depending on "how much can I trust this guy to make use of what I'm going to do to get him into a better/safer position?" One is going to the local basketball court and playing with the random guys, the other is joining an actual team and practicing together. While both involve throwing the ball around they still reward completely different subskills. There's a reason no one in e.g. DotA considers pub games good practice for 5n5 at all. It's simply a different game. Edit: @Seuss, all cool <3 ... just wanted to emphasize myself that "just play more" isn't a glorious answer if you let it stand isolated. Practice without focus might be fun, but it isn't practice. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Most of the other positions are more dynamic, in terms of coordination in arranged 5's. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 01 2012 01:11 r.Evo wrote: Erhm. Just no. Part of the skills you need in solo q but not in arranged play: Selfishness ("I trust myself more than random people"), higher situational awareness (can't rely on all available information being conveyed properly), psychology (keeping morale up in solo q is utterly different from arranged play), adjusting to which calls your team is going to make despite disagreeing big time (e.g. some people ping baron some inhib, even if you'd be 100% sure that inhib is the better target trying to do it with 2 guys instead of going to baron with the 3 others can be a crucial mistake). Sure, mechanical skills are the same but mechanics are arguable one of the smallest skillsets needed for a game like League. Morale, communication and tactics/strategy are way more important and hardly easy to train with random people. Hell, even decisionmaking might vary greatly. Questions of e.g. whether to peel or to pressure can vary greatly depending on "how much can I trust this guy to make use of what I'm going to do to get him into a better/safer position?" One is going to the local basketball court and playing with the random guys, the other is joining an actual team and practicing together. While both involve throwing the ball around they still reward completely different subskills. There's a reason no one in e.g. DotA considers pub games good practice for 5n5 at all. It's simply a different game. Edit: @Seuss, all cool <3 ... just wanted to emphasize myself that "just play more" isn't a glorious answer if you let it stand isolated. Practice without focus might be fun, but it isn't practice. I disagree, especially at the current level of play in pro levels. If you said this like 5 years from now, I'd probably agree. But, with the rise of teams like TD (formerly known as monomaniac), they had great success in IPL and MLG, despite being one of the younger teams, with a fairly solo queue mentality, they were able to get pretty far into tournaments. Mechanics is the most important for now, but the difference between teams like CLGeu/m5/TSM/ etc etc, and other top teams, is the teamwork aspect. Mechanics+teamwork > mechanics, but Mechanics > teamwork. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21362 Posts
The longer competitive LoL is around the less useless soloQ will become. Especialy now that asia who have actual training practices come on board. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I really doubt LoL will ever get to the point of BW, where every single top player has near-perfect mechanics and practicing them in solo queue is a waste of time. Arranged is, of course, better, since you can practice mechanics as well as communication/strategy/taking objectives as a team, but that's just the way it is. | ||
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kainzero
United States5211 Posts
i can understand it in BW because i always assumed mechanics were doing what you want to do, doing it quickly, and doing it efficiently without wasting time. getting to a high mechanical level meant that you were able to organize and move your troops well and macro properly. i dunno what it means in LoL though. | ||
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bobbob
United States368 Posts
EDIT: On August 01 2012 02:20 kainzero wrote: i don't understand what people are talking about when they say mechanics in LoL, can someone explain? i can understand it in BW because i always assumed mechanics were doing what you want to do, doing it quickly, and doing it efficiently without wasting time. getting to a high mechanical level meant that you were able to organize and move your troops well and macro properly. i dunno what it means in LoL though. In LoL it's things like keeping your lane warded, last hitting, landing simple skillshots, etc. So perfect mechanics would mean that you have next to no impact on the pushing of the lane, you aren't affected by the tower for last hits, you keep your lane warded all the time, you don't screw up simple skillshots, you know how to position your lane, etc. For champion specific mechanics, you know how to combo with your champion, and can fit it with a team. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 01 2012 02:20 kainzero wrote: i don't understand what people are talking about when they say mechanics in LoL, can someone explain? i can understand it in BW because i always assumed mechanics were doing what you want to do, doing it quickly, and doing it efficiently without wasting time. getting to a high mechanical level meant that you were able to organize and move your troops well and macro properly. i dunno what it means in LoL though. definition of mechanics. btw, i think it's safe to say, doublelift is the best ad carry in the world right now, especially w chau support. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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