EPTWhy is it so bad? Plenty of other AP casters have similar CC skillshots that do more damage, are a million times easier to hit and have stronger effects. You could make the entire Grenade AoE be a stun and it wouldn't be overpowered, but it might just make Heimerdinger less worthless.
[Patch 1.0.0.142: Jayce] General Discussion - Page 64
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
Why is it so bad? Plenty of other AP casters have similar CC skillshots that do more damage, are a million times easier to hit and have stronger effects. You could make the entire Grenade AoE be a stun and it wouldn't be overpowered, but it might just make Heimerdinger less worthless. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:15 Alzadar wrote: What's the deal with Heimerdinger's Grenade? It's god awful for no apparent reason. The projectile speed is like the worst in the whole game and on top of that the stun radius is the size of Teemo's little toe, and then if you ever do actually land it you get a mediocre 1.5s stun. Why is it so bad? Plenty of other AP casters have similar CC skillshots that do more damage, are a million times easier to hit and have stronger effects. You could make the entire Grenade AoE be a stun and it wouldn't be overpowered, but it might just make Heimerdinger less worthless. Soniv will likely be here in a moment, and he knows more about Heimer than everyone, But the grenade is a useful poke tool and is very very good at zoning people. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:15 Alzadar wrote: What's the deal with Heimerdinger's Grenade? It's god awful for no apparent reason. The projectile speed is like the worst in the whole game and on top of that the stun radius is the size of Teemo's little toe, and then if you ever do actually land it you get a mediocre 1.5s stun. Why is it so bad? Plenty of other AP casters have similar CC skillshots that do more damage, are a million times easier to hit and have stronger effects. You could make the entire Grenade AoE be a stun and it wouldn't be overpowered, but it might just make Heimerdinger less worthless. I agree, heimer's nade needs a lot more speed. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:14 NeoIllusions wrote: It's not stackable. Simply refreshes. Stacking MS would get out of hand. Edit: also, the shield from ulti felt more effective than any instance of heal on kill with the current Eve. If you were referring to my post, Neo, then I was referring to her ult's presence pre-nerf. The current heal on kill is barely even noticeable. Now I've been thinking about her jungling... WARNING! BASELESS THEORYCRAFTING AHEAD + Show Spoiler + It seems likely that it'll be one point in Hate Spike to start at level 1, and then either Ravage or Dark Frenzy next, depending on mana costs. If Ravage still rapes Eve's mana then maybe Dark Frenzy at level 2 to improve travelling speed? Most self MS or AS buffs don't eat up that much mana. Maybe if you're going to go for aggressive level 2 gank start Ravage and Frenzy instead....though Frenzy's synergy is with Hate Spike so I'm honestly not sure. That will all be really numbers dependant. She will in all likelihood need at leat a point in all 3 spells for her ganking to be really good unless the numbers on Ravage are HUGE or something. Another interesting thing to note is that counterjungling on Evelynn will NOT be safe, as it just as dangerous for her to enter an enemy brush without warding it first than any other champion. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:20 gtrsrs wrote: holy shit why do people want shit champs like evelynn and heimer to be viable? you might not have played back when heimer was first-ban status, but it was soooo stupid. there was nothing you could do to stop his slow, grindy push down mid as he chipped away at your towers with his turrets and grenades. too hard to approach, too static of gameplay. champions like eve, twitch, and heimer, that have had serious gameplay issues that can't be balanced by numbers, were nerfed for a reason. i hate that people want them back. So mad... They were nerfed into oblivion when they were abusive (Heimer with Missles that targeted champs only + # of turrets, Jungle Eve from last year, etc). But why shouldn't Riot try to redesign them so they're more viable? Point is that they aren't retarded perma-ban status because of broken kits but champions that have a place in competitive level, even if it is a small niche role. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:24 WaveofShadow wrote: If you were referring to my post, Neo, then I was referring to her ult's presence pre-nerf. The current heal on kill is barely even noticeable. Now I've been thinking about her jungling... WARNING! BASELESS THEORYCRAFTING AHEAD + Show Spoiler + It seems likely that it'll be one point in Hate Spike to start at level 1, and then either Ravage or Dark Frenzy next, depending on mana costs. If Ravage still rapes Eve's mana then maybe Dark Frenzy at level 2 to improve travelling speed? Most self MS or AS buffs don't eat up that much mana. Maybe if you're going to go for aggressive level 2 gank start Ravage and Frenzy instead....though Frenzy's synergy is with Hate Spike so I'm honestly not sure. That will all be really numbers dependant. She will in all likelihood need at leat a point in all 3 spells for her ganking to be really good unless the numbers on Ravage are HUGE or something. Another interesting thing to note is that counterjungling on Evelynn will NOT be safe, as it just as dangerous for her to enter an enemy brush without warding it first than any other champion. If you're talking about old Eve heal, then yeah. That was her "best" ulti iteration but that's way too snowball. No surprise Riot didn't like it at all after Jungle Eve became mainstream. + Show Spoiler + In response to your jungle theorycraft, Hate Spike was maxxed often, esp if you ran AP Jungle Eve. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:20 gtrsrs wrote: holy shit why do people want shit champs like evelynn and heimer to be viable? you might not have played back when heimer was first-ban status, but it was soooo stupid. there was nothing you could do to stop his slow, grindy push down mid as he chipped away at your towers with his turrets and grenades. too hard to approach, too static of gameplay. champions like eve, twitch, and heimer, that have had serious gameplay issues that can't be balanced by numbers, were nerfed for a reason. i hate that people want them back. heimer being viable or a character similar to heimer lets push strats exist and be viable also. which is way better for the game than the current nonsense meta. Re: heimers grenade without his ulti his grenade functions like a fireball does in street fighter, controlling all this space. with his ulti, it actually gets easy as hell to hit. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:15 Alzadar wrote: What's the deal with Heimerdinger's Grenade? It's god awful for no apparent reason. The projectile speed is like the worst in the whole game and on top of that the stun radius is the size of Teemo's little toe, and then if you ever do actually land it you get a mediocre 1.5s stun. Why is it so bad? Plenty of other AP casters have similar CC skillshots that do more damage, are a million times easier to hit and have stronger effects. You could make the entire Grenade AoE be a stun and it wouldn't be overpowered, but it might just make Heimerdinger less worthless. Well, if it hits it's pretty darn powerful. A 3 second blind that can potentially also be a 1.5 second stun is pretty darn strong. The projectile is too damn slow tho I'll give you that. @Neo: I'm pretty sure rework Eve's movespeed buff stacks when you casts spells. | ||
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Fuzzmosis
Canada752 Posts
When it was remarked before that the fear with Eve was "passive" gameplay, and with her new descriptions and passive stealth, she still is kinda a ganking machine. I don't see the "Fear of Invis" disappearing unless the visible to hero range is tower vision length or something. I do like that she appears to be a threatening, highly mobile and melee caster. Kassadin has an invisible friend now. And a possibility of being AD isn't too terrible either with both steroids being available. | ||
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Jaso
United States2147 Posts
On July 12 2012 10:01 Sufficiency wrote: Buyable power ftw. *cough* Frostfire Annie, Pulsefire Ezreal, Monarch Kog'Maw, Mad Scientist Ziggs, *cough* wait, what benefits do those have? I only know of Frostfire Annie's stun being hard to see. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:34 Jaso wrote: wait, what benefits do those have? I only know of Frostfire Annie's stun being hard to see. Pulsefire's Ult is so fucking big and bright that it blinds half the screen when you fire it off. I think it also has snappier animations, but that's just me. MS Ziggs' bomb field is rather hard to see compared to the other skins. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:30 PrinceXizor wrote: heimer being viable or a character similar to heimer lets push strats exist and be viable also. which is way better for the game than the current nonsense meta. Re: heimers grenade without his ulti his grenade functions like a fireball does in street fighter, controlling all this space. with his ulti, it actually gets easy as hell to hit. shut up. On July 12 2012 09:24 warscythes wrote: AFK detection finally implemented well on PBE at least http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=26806012#post26806012 That's a really big improvement... it's nice when the client improves, it happens so rarely compared to improvements to the game itself. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:34 Jaso wrote: wait, what benefits do those have? I only know of Frostfire Annie's stun being hard to see. PFE and Monarch Kog have "flying" animations that lift them off the ground, displacing their visual positions from their hitbox. It's kind of like trying to land a skillshot on someone who is knocked up. PFE is especially guilty of this. Furthermore, PFE's AA and Q are too hard to tell apart due to similar missile art and casting/attacking animation. Mad Scientist Ziggs' bombs are green; Summoner's Rift's background is primarily green, giving poor contrast to his core skillshot that is otherwise easy to dodge (comparably, the classic skin has RED bomb, giving off very sharp contrast). | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
*these are the opinions of a noob and should not really taken seriously still, her ulti is her only form of cc. while i think it would okay in the above circumstance... yeah. im just not a big fan of champs with low cc. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 12 2012 11:43 UniversalSnip wrote: shut up. agreed, just shut up xizor malzahar is a good push champ. morgana offers a good push. heimer creates static gameplay which is bad for the game. buffing heimer entrenches the game into turret defense, which stifles aggressive and innovative play | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 12 2012 12:05 gtrsrs wrote: agreed, just shut up xizor malzahar is a good push champ. morgana offers a good push. heimer creates static gameplay which is bad for the game. buffing heimer entrenches the game into turret defense, which stifles aggressive and innovative play never said to buff heimer, just to have him be viable. buffing promote to make a siege minion have tower range is enough to make heimer viable. glad people like discussions "shut up" lol you guys are pretty sad. and mass clearing waves =/= a push character when that character has no way to extend the push or speed up tower sieges. in fact mass clearing leads the exact problem. towers are too strong for mass clearing to be the push strategy of choice, so teams can get into situations where both teams just clear waves constantly and NOTHING happens and the game becomes an entrenched passive game. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
never said to buff heimer, just to have him be viable. buffing promote to make a siege minion have tower range is enough to make heimer viable. What is this shit? I can't imagine how hard you'd get your anus pushed in if you posted the equivalent of this in the SC portion. I don't have ANY reason to respect thinking on this level. I'll restrain myself from here on out since I'm aware it does no good to berate you or try to reason with you, but it makes reading this thread substantially less enjoyable to see your drivel on every page. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On July 12 2012 12:05 gtrsrs wrote: buffing heimer entrenches the game into turret defense, which stifles aggressive and innovative play But Morgana gets to have the retarded kit that she has? Can't gank her, built in sustain, blue buff, and w make her the most boring champion to lane against unless you actively go out out of your way to harass her. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
 Entire thread derails over his stupidity. | ||
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