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I still need to see the actual numbers, but it seems that she will be an awesome mid/top laner. I would probably play her as mid though. Between the mana sustain, the anti-slow/MS-steroid, damage + shield ult, and the stealth, I think she will be a very good laner. Her range is short so she will probably have a terrible time against some AP mids, but honestly this kit seems really OP.
EDIT: Ugh. Her E is changed. Now I am not too sure. If her E no longer have 1 ap ratio it might be a problem.
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On July 12 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote:I still need to see the actual numbers, but it seems that she will be an awesome mid/top laner. I would probably play her as mid though. Between the mana sustain, the anti-slow/MS-steroid, damage + shield ult, and the stealth, I think she will be a very good laner. Her range is short so she will probably have a terrible time against some AP mids, but honestly this kit seems really OP. EDIT: Ugh. Her E is changed. Now I am not too sure. If her E no longer have 1 ap ratio it might be a problem.
Aren't most whole tool kits on champions OP looking in general? My issue is if she still keeps her stat nerfs from so long ago.
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On July 12 2012 10:13 Celestial wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote:I still need to see the actual numbers, but it seems that she will be an awesome mid/top laner. I would probably play her as mid though. Between the mana sustain, the anti-slow/MS-steroid, damage + shield ult, and the stealth, I think she will be a very good laner. Her range is short so she will probably have a terrible time against some AP mids, but honestly this kit seems really OP. EDIT: Ugh. Her E is changed. Now I am not too sure. If her E no longer have 1 ap ratio it might be a problem. Aren't most whole tool kits on champions OP looking in general? My issue is if she still keeps her stat nerfs from so long ago.
I am pretty sure her base stats and growth are not that bad. For instance, Evelyn has 414 (+86 per lvl) HP; comparably,
Shen: 428 (+85) (yep, at lvl 18, Evenlyn has more HP than Shen)
Akali: 445 (+85)
Fizz: 414 (+86)
Fiora: 450 (+85)
Evelyn's AS and AS per lvl is also absolutely crazy, at 0.658 (+3.84%). Most AD carries only have +3% per lvl.
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On July 12 2012 10:20 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:13 Celestial wrote:On July 12 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote:I still need to see the actual numbers, but it seems that she will be an awesome mid/top laner. I would probably play her as mid though. Between the mana sustain, the anti-slow/MS-steroid, damage + shield ult, and the stealth, I think she will be a very good laner. Her range is short so she will probably have a terrible time against some AP mids, but honestly this kit seems really OP. EDIT: Ugh. Her E is changed. Now I am not too sure. If her E no longer have 1 ap ratio it might be a problem. Aren't most whole tool kits on champions OP looking in general? My issue is if she still keeps her stat nerfs from so long ago. I am pretty sure her base stats and growth are not that bad. For instance, Evelyn has 414 (+86 per lvl) HP; comparably, Shen: 428 (+85) (yep, at lvl 18, Evenlyn has more HP than Shen) Akali: 445 (+85) Fizz: 414 (+86) Fiora: 450 (+85) Evelyn's AS and AS per lvl is also absolutely crazy, at 0.658 (+3.84%). Most AD carries only have +3% per lvl.
It's not just her hp. Her base armor is absolute crap too, especially for a melee. Eve's stat growth is actually pretty good, but she just starts very crappy. The only other champ I can think of that has equally bad base stats is Fizz and he also has a pretty bad laning phase, but he compensates for that by being really hard to kill with his E and being able to 1-shot basically any non-bruiser in the game. His laning is also better than Eve's in that in some matchups he can absolutely wreck due to his massive burst+sustained damage with W.
Eve's other problem is that not only do her base numbers suck, she also requires a hefty amount of farm to not suck. That's compounded by her shitty base numbers making it near impossible for her to get exp and gold properly.
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On July 12 2012 09:55 Xevious wrote:
at the moment it's a free loss if you get captain america on your team, i don't know why he's tanking his elo on purpose as trundle but he's lost every trundle game so far and if he doesn't get trundle he trollpicks
(i'm not raging or insulting him he's literally tanking his elo on purpose, like he plays trundle top and buys random ad items and pushes top the whole game)
this happened to me with takashit zzzzz
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On July 12 2012 10:22 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:20 Sufficiency wrote:On July 12 2012 10:13 Celestial wrote:On July 12 2012 10:08 Sufficiency wrote:I still need to see the actual numbers, but it seems that she will be an awesome mid/top laner. I would probably play her as mid though. Between the mana sustain, the anti-slow/MS-steroid, damage + shield ult, and the stealth, I think she will be a very good laner. Her range is short so she will probably have a terrible time against some AP mids, but honestly this kit seems really OP. EDIT: Ugh. Her E is changed. Now I am not too sure. If her E no longer have 1 ap ratio it might be a problem. Aren't most whole tool kits on champions OP looking in general? My issue is if she still keeps her stat nerfs from so long ago. I am pretty sure her base stats and growth are not that bad. For instance, Evelyn has 414 (+86 per lvl) HP; comparably, Shen: 428 (+85) (yep, at lvl 18, Evenlyn has more HP than Shen) Akali: 445 (+85) Fizz: 414 (+86) Fiora: 450 (+85) Evelyn's AS and AS per lvl is also absolutely crazy, at 0.658 (+3.84%). Most AD carries only have +3% per lvl. It's not just her hp. Her base armor is absolute crap too, especially for a melee. Eve's stat growth is actually pretty good, but she just starts very crappy. The only other champ I can think of that has equally bad base stats is Fizz and he also has a pretty bad laning phase, but he compensates for that by being really hard to kill with his E and being able to 1-shot basically any non-bruiser in the game. His laning is also better than Eve's in that in some matchups he can absolutely wreck due to his massive burst+sustained damage with W. Eve's other problem is that not only do her base numbers suck, she also requires a hefty amount of farm to not suck. That's compounded by her shitty base numbers making it near impossible for her to get exp and gold properly.
Shen: 15 (+4) armor
Evelynn: 12.5 (+4) armor
Fizz: 13 (+3.4) armor
Fiora: 15.5 (+3.5) armor
Akali: 16.5 (+3.5) armor
Evelynn has MR per lvl, Shen does not. Evelynn's armor beats Fizz's by level 2, beats Fiora by level 6, beats Akali by level 8.
So yea, her base stats are better than Shen's, while comparable to other melee champions of similar/different roles. Her damage is fine, too. It's just that she is melee ranged and she needs a gapcloser...
I do find her 315 base speed kind of sad though. Comparably Akali and Katarina are at 325...
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United States37500 Posts
Eve is still an assassin. She fits her role much better now after the remake.
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you can't compare certain elements of peoples' kits while ignoring others and call that a fair comparison
YES, it appears eve has more hp and armor than shen at level 18 or w/e
NO, eve is not comparable to shen. shen is not constricted by mana (eve goes out in 2 ravages), shen is not constricted to pure melee, shen has a dash and a shield, yada yada yada
it's dumb to be like LOL GUYS EVE IS VIABLE SHE HAS GOOD BASE STATS AND OP PASSIVE, in fact, didn't i just put this to rest this past weekend? stop bringing up eve. no more eve stats, no more eve theorycraft. when her new release comes out, we can discuss her then. i'm so fucking sick of eve talk
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On July 12 2012 10:32 gtrsrs wrote:
you can't compare certain elements of peoples' kits while ignoring others and call that a fair comparison
YES, it appears eve has more hp and armor than shen at level 18 or w/e
NO, eve is not comparable to shen. shen is not constricted by mana (eve goes out in 2 ravages), shen is not constricted to pure melee, shen has a dash and a shield, yada yada yada
it's dumb to be like LOL GUYS EVE IS VIABLE SHE HAS GOOD BASE STATS AND OP PASSIVE, in fact, didn't i just put this to rest this past weekend? stop bringing up eve. no more eve stats, no more eve theorycraft. when her new release comes out, we can discuss her then. i'm so fucking sick of eve talk
Ryuu314 baited me into it. Blame him.
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On July 12 2012 10:33 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:32 gtrsrs wrote:
you can't compare certain elements of peoples' kits while ignoring others and call that a fair comparison
YES, it appears eve has more hp and armor than shen at level 18 or w/e
NO, eve is not comparable to shen. shen is not constricted by mana (eve goes out in 2 ravages), shen is not constricted to pure melee, shen has a dash and a shield, yada yada yada
it's dumb to be like LOL GUYS EVE IS VIABLE SHE HAS GOOD BASE STATS AND OP PASSIVE, in fact, didn't i just put this to rest this past weekend? stop bringing up eve. no more eve stats, no more eve theorycraft. when her new release comes out, we can discuss her then. i'm so fucking sick of eve talk Ryuu314 baited me into it. Blame him.
wtf are you talking about? u started with telling everyone how Eve's base hp is pretty good. I corrected you.
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United States47024 Posts
No CC except ult, which is only a weak CC. She's going to need REALLY good numbers to be anything but trash at teamfighting.
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United States37500 Posts
Would be more interesting if you guys theorycrafted about her role and how she'll fit into the current meta, instead of unreleased stats. ;_;
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On July 12 2012 10:39 TheYango wrote:No CC except ult, which is only a weak CC. She's going to need REALLY good numbers to be anything but trash at teamfighting.
well we don't know how much it slows yet. It could be a shitty 20-30% slow or it could be some massive lvl 5 sejuani frost slow. Although it's probably going to be a shitty 20-30% slow tho. If it was a strong enough slow it could be really useful for initiating depending on its aoe.
tbh, I think it'll boil down to whether or not she can jungle. Laning her doesn't take advantage of her stealth mechanic and it doesn't seem like her laning will be all that great anyways unless her numbers are really really high. other big problem I have with her is that she has absolutely 0 cc until she hits 6, so her ganks aren't going to be all that great either without a strong gank assist lane and/or really really high dps from eve.
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On July 12 2012 10:39 TheYango wrote:No CC except ult, which is only a weak CC. She's going to need REALLY good numbers to be anything but trash at teamfighting.
Yea, how viable she will be will depend on her range and her AP ratio. I think her W will be pretty broken though, since a Rioter said it actually refreshes on kill/assist and STACKABLE.
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Wow thanks for all the replies! I think I am going with kass even though karma looks more fun, since they did say they are going to remake her it worries me
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What's the consensus on the Orianna updates? I don't feel like all too much is different concerning buffs and nerfs, but the fluidity and damage decrease balance out okay. I'm not all that great though, so want to hear from people with a bit more Ori experience.
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On July 12 2012 10:55 Dark_Chill wrote:
What's the consensus on the Orianna updates? I don't feel like all too much is different concerning buffs and nerfs, but the fluidity and damage decrease balance out okay. I'm not all that great though, so want to hear from people with a bit more Ori experience.
i think there is little change for mediocre oriannas, a nerf to bad oriannas and a decent sized buff to good oriannas
RE: Evelynn slow, it seems like with what they want to do with her, it'll probably be like lulu slow, massive start slow, and then it decreases over time. probably 60-70% slow for 1 second then decrease to 0% over the next couple seconds.
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On July 12 2012 10:55 Dark_Chill wrote:
What's the consensus on the Orianna updates? I don't feel like all too much is different concerning buffs and nerfs, but the fluidity and damage decrease balance out okay. I'm not all that great though, so want to hear from people with a bit more Ori experience.
Overall, definitely a buff. Hitting the Q is a little bit harder but hitting the W is easier now. Also, orianna punishes grouping far far harder now than she did before with even more damage on her W. A R>W>Q will wreck teams if it hits three people. The range increase when attached to a teammate is also noticeable, especially on amumu/malphite.
I think her laning is stronger at levels 7+ where you start having enough mana to do Q>W without running oom constantly. Q max was stronger in lane from levels 1-5 when you didn't have the mana pool but later in the game, after you have a bit of AP and mana, her laning is stronger than before.
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On July 12 2012 10:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:39 TheYango wrote:No CC except ult, which is only a weak CC. She's going to need REALLY good numbers to be anything but trash at teamfighting. Yea, how viable she will be will depend on her range and her AP ratio. I think her W will be pretty broken though, since a Rioter said it actually refreshes on kill/assist and STACKABLE.
Nothing wrong with that....we have other squishy champions that can snowball in teamfights like that (Yi, Katarina) that are not overpowered.
Honestly from the way her ult sounds it seems as though she will be MORE threatening in a teamfight than either of those two specifically because she will be harder to kill with a well-landed ult.
To compare teamfight prowess:
Yi uses Highlander, Alpha Strikes the shit out of whoever he can and either Autoattacks to victory until someone dies for the reset+repeat, or AP Yi uses Highlander Alpha Strikes, kills somebody and Alpha Strikes over and over again. He can attempt to tank enemy attempts to focus him by using meditate as long as he doesn't get cced or can save Alpha strike to escape/become untargetable.
Katarina waits for all cc to be blown, W-Shunpos in, maybe fires off a Q and then ults, hoping someone dies. If so, rinse and repeat. If she needs to escape she can hope for a Shunpo reset or cd to be up.
Evelynn it appears, ults an entire team (or as many as she can get) giving herself extra durability, pops Dark Frenzy and attempts to blow up the squishiest enemy there so she can get a reset. With her skill synergy it seems she'll be able to do this better than Katarina since she can actually autoattack, unlike Kat. (Obviously numbers pending, but Ravage + Hate Spike nuke+ crazy increased attack speed probably means dead squishy.) If she succeeds or the fight goes bad, she can pop Dark Frenzy to run the hell out of range of enemy sight and to safety or to continue to nuke the fuck out of the enemy team.
Her teamfight presence overall seems better than Kat's (and plenty of people use her above 2k, though obviously not tourney viable) and similar to Yi's, and aside from the single (maybe dual-)target stun she used to have, her teamfighting looks to be mostly the same as it was pre-nerf. She will be harder to kill off the bat than she was due to ult, though easier to kill during the teamfight itself due to no healing on kill/assist, though in all likelihood will do more damage in a teamfight (numbers pending, but it seems likely). Her escape may or may not be weaker, depending on how fast she can move out of sight range. Her utility is down, no doubt about that, and unless someone comes up with some completely novel shift to the metagame using Eve and ward/counterward play, I doubt she'll get much tourney use.
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United States37500 Posts
On July 12 2012 10:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 10:39 TheYango wrote:No CC except ult, which is only a weak CC. She's going to need REALLY good numbers to be anything but trash at teamfighting. Yea, how viable she will be will depend on her range and her AP ratio. I think her W will be pretty broken though, since a Rioter said it actually refreshes on kill/assist and STACKABLE.
It's not stackable. Simply refreshes. Stacking MS would get out of hand.
Edit: also, the shield from ulti felt more effective than any instance of heal on kill with the current Eve.
Edit2: Base/passive MS has a max stack, so I guess "stackable" is ok. ;_;
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EPT
