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Yeah, I've won Pantheon vs Riven every time, but I'm right below 1300 Elo so most people can't handle Pantheon, whoever their champ is (I still think the initial gap between Malph and Cho regarding him would be too great for me to win unless I all-in or something). And if I want to win the game and not just my lane, I can't go Panth because either they do kinda well and we faceroll into 20 minutes surrender, or they don't and when I have to carry, well, let's rephrase it with "they have to carry me by accepting to listen to my heeds for pushes, so I can carry them". Which usually doesn't really work.
As Olaf I haven't been able to trade efficiently because she'll just force you to E on her shield (its downtime his absurd assuming it doesn't get destroyed) and with all her cc she can unload everything, or just Q minions twice and keep the third for me, and she'll hit me with far more than I can retaliate before she gets away while I recover from the cc. He played better than me but still, that mobility+cc+damage is so frustrating. Kinda like when I laned Swain top against AD Nidalee, once she was 6 pounce would ignore my Q and her 6s cd burst wouldn't let me outsustain her.
Also, I love Jax top. But I fear he may lose to the same champs my other tops (Olaf, Irelia, WW mainly) lose to.
On May 16 2012 04:54 Shiv. wrote:
On another note: is it just me or has Nautilus actually the potential to win his lane against Kennen?
Mid or top? And AP Kennen I guess.
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On May 16 2012 04:52 Two_DoWn wrote:
How long do you guys think it would take me to get banned if I played nothing but Eve in ranked? Provided I actually tried every game.
Depends on how well you do. If you play like spamhappy's poppy, then probably no ban.
Also isn't there a guy up there in elo w/ just twitch main?
To be honest, you would probably stop playing eve to stop the elo hemorrhaging before the ban.
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On May 16 2012 05:00 Alaric wrote:
Mid or top? And AP Kennen I guess.
Top, and AP Kennen, yeah.
I have played the matchup today and asked a friend (decent Kennen player, but a LITTLE bit of a weaker player than myself) to play it a couple of times and unless the Kennen is prepared and just farms from max distance, it seems like Nautilus is easily able to abuse the length of the lane to bully Kennen around. There comes a point where he can instaclear waves to harass Kennen, and once he drops below 65-70% and you're at least level 7 and have ignite and ult up, it's pretty much a guaranteed kill if you don't mess up. I don't know man, maybe it's just me, but I really fell in love with Naut today.
Also, I see what he'd bring to the table mid, but so far I don't really see him replacing a real AP carry. Maybe if you run Kennen, Vlad or Rumble top and have a suiting jungler, sure. I would not like to have him as my main carry, though.
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Since when is Aphromoo on TSM? Did I miss something? :-/
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On May 16 2012 05:10 napo wrote:
Since when is Aphromoo on TSM? Did I miss something? :-/
TSM B team.
All the cool guys need a B team nowadays.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On May 16 2012 05:10 napo wrote:
Since when is Aphromoo on TSM? Did I miss something? :-/
They have a B team as well. I dont know who is all on it though.
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i dislike pantheon vs riven because she is able to forfeit CS at level 1 in order to force pantheon in a situation where he cannot farm without overextending for a gank, particularly if im playing panth blue side - can be alleviated with ward placement by your support however. with full armor runes and cloth5pot she is able to shrug off his level 1 spear harass fairly well with E, and mana regen can become an issue - if panth runs oom before riven runs out of pots she is able to bully him, and if they are even CS into the mid or lategame she overpowers him both in lane and in teamfights imo
riven beats vlad if she plays aggressively, like pantheon however she overextends for ganks if she plays to her full potential though - so ward placement or jungler support for riven at level 1 or 2 will usually secure her for lane domination
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On May 16 2012 05:11 Beyonder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 05:10 napo wrote:
Since when is Aphromoo on TSM? Did I miss something? :-/ They have a B team as well. I dont know who is all on it though.
salce, nhat, aphro, unstoppablex and wingofdeathx
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On May 16 2012 05:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 04:52 Two_DoWn wrote:
How long do you guys think it would take me to get banned if I played nothing but Eve in ranked? Provided I actually tried every game. Depends on how well you do. If you play like spamhappy's poppy, then probably no ban. Also isn't there a guy up there in elo w/ just twitch main? To be honest, you would probably stop playing eve to stop the elo hemorrhaging before the ban.
That would imply I care about the hemorrhaging.
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I still have no clue when to push a lane and when to freeze it. Can ppl give some general rules of thumb on that topic?
Top lane and Mid lane
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On May 16 2012 05:28 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2012 05:04 wei2coolman wrote:On May 16 2012 04:52 Two_DoWn wrote:
How long do you guys think it would take me to get banned if I played nothing but Eve in ranked? Provided I actually tried every game. Depends on how well you do. If you play like spamhappy's poppy, then probably no ban. Also isn't there a guy up there in elo w/ just twitch main? To be honest, you would probably stop playing eve to stop the elo hemorrhaging before the ban. That would imply I care about the hemorrhaging.
Well elo drops affect people differently.
had a friend who went from 1780 to low 1500's in a period of 3 days. He stopped playing LoL, reactivated his WoW account (he was 1 year clean), and now all he does is play WoW.
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On May 16 2012 05:28 nosliw wrote:
I still have no clue when to push a lane and when to freeze it. Can ppl give some general rules of thumb on that topic?
Top lane and Mid lane
Whenever you maximize the amount of CS and XP lost for the enemy laner and minimize said amount for yourself. So generally, right after they recalled if it's balanced so you pull it when you recall a little later yourself.
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On May 16 2012 05:28 nosliw wrote:
I still have no clue when to push a lane and when to freeze it. Can ppl give some general rules of thumb on that topic?
Top lane and Mid lane
Mid lane you want to push as hard as you can without getting ganked because it screws about the other guy's last hitting and makes him lose CS. If you see that his lane is already pushing towards you, you may choose to let it push and call a jungler to gank as if the mid stays, he will be pushed far enough to be killed with a very high chance.
Top lane it's much more difficult and complicated. If you want to base, you want to push as hard as possible so that you lose the lowest amount of CS (if you get your creeps to their turret they will die quickly and won't be able to kill the opponent's creeps)
If someone bases and you know they aren't there, you have 2 opportunities. If the lane is already pretty pushed or already pushing, you should probably push it (again, if your creeps reach his turret they will die quickly and he won't get exp or gold from them)
However, if the lane is equal, freezing the lane will make him lose as much CS as you gain.
If his lane is already pushing, that is the best case scenario (unless the creeps are already in turret range)
What you want to do is, freeze your lane by tanking until your creeps show up, then going to bush to drop aggro. Him having more ranged creeps means that your creeps will die much faster than his (same concept as with the turret)
It's really not that difficult if you know what you want to accomplish. You want to waste as many creeps for him as possible, and in different situations this calls for different measures, as I've stated.
Now in general laning top lane, you may want to push to deny the other guy's CS and to be able to steal objectives.
For example, near the 7 minute mark (if you are north) you want to push your lane in order to invade their blue. If a lot of creeps are on his turret, he either has to lose every CS and defend his blue, or he will be unable to do so and they will lose it as the fight will be 1v2 or 2v3.
Of course, situations differ with champions. With an aggressive champion you usually want to freeze your lane as much as possible, so that you have much easier harassing. If you are very pushed with GP or Panth pre basing, that means you are putting yourself in a very dangerous situation as your harassing draws aggro which automatically pushes, making you pushed and suspectible for ganks. If you are a farming champion, you also probably want to freeze the lane near your turret. Some champions are fine being pushed right in the turret (champions who can 100% kill every minion under turret fire)
With pushers, you probably want to push as hard as possible to get the tower down more easily. Again, this all comes down to thinking about what you want to accomplish. Do you want to kill him? Do you have a ward? Do you want to farm then get a gank when you are level 6? Do you want to play on an island the whoel game and just split push? You have to know what you want to do and how to achieve that. You can ask mroe specific questions.
Also, with Pantheon and GP with a ward, it's probably better if you are pushing him right to his turret. You can just Q him and run away without taking turret damage (you have to time this between turret attacks) and thus he can't get to his range creeps.
edit: for later in the game, freezing the lane means that the other guy will be able to roam the map in return for you getting every creep. This may or may not be the thing you want to do, as if you've already fed say a renekton or a pantheon or a riven and let them make the rest of the map 4v5, that might just outright lose you the game.
Usually the best way is to push, go mid or whatever, and then come back losing only one creep wave. It's a similar concept with mid, you want to maximize your time spent helping your team while maximizing your CS, sometimes you have to choose one over the other but you still want to maximize it as much as possible.
Pushing means that you will have more time and thus less enemy creeps will die making you lose less CS. Of course, if he is already there, he may just push back. In that case you have 2 choices, get the fuck back so that you don't lose CS or possibly a turret or let the other guy push and help your team gank mid/bot/get dragon , but it has to be worth it for the 10-20 CS you are losing, so make it count. With some champions you just want to sit top and farm (and possibly react to their top laner)
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On May 16 2012 05:28 nosliw wrote:
I still have no clue when to push a lane and when to freeze it. Can ppl give some general rules of thumb on that topic?
Top lane and Mid lane
You only really want to freeze lane in top lane, usually for mid it's a pushing fest, due to shorter travel distance, and # of waves required to push back is lower.
On top:
Freeze it when.
a) you can force zoning out the enemy, they lose cs.
b) when you don't know where their jungler is (or you know they're near).
c) you're behind in farm, and your tier 1 tower is down.
d) when there are no objective required to be taken anytime soon.
push: (if you have STRONG pushing ability)
a) enemy jungler is in another lane.
b) push w/ your jungler if you force the enemy top out of lane (they had to recall, or died from gank).
c) if you're REALLY well warded, and can escape from any gank enemy jungler can throw at you
d) if there are objective to take (red/blue/dragon/baron), shove lane before going to objective.
e) if you plan on recalling to buy, shove the lane a little.
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On May 16 2012 05:28 nosliw wrote:
I still have no clue when to push a lane and when to freeze it. Can ppl give some general rules of thumb on that topic?
Top lane and Mid lane
Push a lane when you want the other laner to lose creeps to turret, when you want to force him back to lane asap, when you want to apply pressure to the enemy jungler or when you want to leave your lane for a relatively long time. Freeze for anything else.
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i'm jungling vs crumbzz LOL yay d3
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This PBE graphics update does help me out in fps slightly but it's so much less stable now  I'll go from 80 to 25 instantly. Maybe it'll get cleaned up before actual launch, who knows. Looks nice though.
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aAa teamfighting 5v5 is so bad. :/ Their strong point is really the laning phase and abusing any edge they get to roam.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On May 16 2012 06:01 Alaric wrote:
aAa teamfighting 5v5 is so bad. :/ Their strong point is really the laning phase and abusing any edge they get to roam.
Kog Maw AP just beyond ridiculous on a well coordinated team :<
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Clg na or eu are.they playing?
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EPT
