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While this thread is labeled "DotA2", this is in fact a community thread first. Many of the users in the TL LoL subforum have been playing as friends for over a year now, so it makes logical sense that they would want to play other games together.
Do not compare DotA2 to LoL, you will get banned.
TL LoL veterans know what is expected. Newcomers be warned.
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On September 03 2012 07:59 Haasts wrote:
Really fantastic analysis of the draft, r.Evo - any chance you have time to do that for G2/3 of the Na'Vi/LGD games from today? I'm finding it hard to switch back to watching TSM/Dignitas after the excitement of those few games (even if I could never figure out what e.g. when Leshrac was using his ultimate).
I'm not even sure if I'm right about it, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm still pretty horrible at this stuff. I was too excited watching the games today to use my brain, so I doubt I get anything done about those. =P
Maybe we can answer some more specfic questions though if you have any.
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On September 03 2012 08:21 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 07:59 Haasts wrote:
Really fantastic analysis of the draft, r.Evo - any chance you have time to do that for G2/3 of the Na'Vi/LGD games from today? I'm finding it hard to switch back to watching TSM/Dignitas after the excitement of those few games (even if I could never figure out what e.g. when Leshrac was using his ultimate). I'm not even sure if I'm right about it, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm still pretty horrible at this stuff. I was too excited watching the games today to use my brain, so I doubt I get anything done about those. =P Maybe we can answer some more specfic questions though if you have any.
A few questions off the top of my head, if they're not too annoying.
° What was Enchantress' role in those fights in G3?
° With regards to Rubick stealing abilities, it steals the last-used ability by the targeted hero, right? So the the Tidehunter uses his ult, and then attempts to use another skill before Rubick can steal it - was it Rubick being v.fast with the steal, or Leshrac/Chrono stunning Tidehunter to prevent the use of another ability?
° With the laning in that game, was it vaguely the equivalent of a laneswapped LoL match with the top laner vs the ranged carry + support? It seemed the Dark Seer/Beastmaster were zoned or having to farm under tower while the Naga Siren/Faceless Void freefarmed. How is pressure relieved on the heroes in the 1v2 situation?
° DotA2 is fairly much a direct port of DotA1 that is still in progress, right? Does that mean the DotA2 meta will shift towards the state of DotA1 as all heroes are ported, or are they fairly distinct?
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On September 03 2012 08:47 Haasts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 08:21 r.Evo wrote:On September 03 2012 07:59 Haasts wrote:
Really fantastic analysis of the draft, r.Evo - any chance you have time to do that for G2/3 of the Na'Vi/LGD games from today? I'm finding it hard to switch back to watching TSM/Dignitas after the excitement of those few games (even if I could never figure out what e.g. when Leshrac was using his ultimate). I'm not even sure if I'm right about it, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm still pretty horrible at this stuff. I was too excited watching the games today to use my brain, so I doubt I get anything done about those. =P Maybe we can answer some more specfic questions though if you have any. A few questions off the top of my head, if they're not too annoying. ° What was Enchantress' role in those fights in G3? ° With regards to Rubick stealing abilities, it steals the last-used ability by the targeted hero, right? So the the Tidehunter uses his ult, and then attempts to use another skill before Rubick can steal it - was it Rubick being v.fast with the steal, or Leshrac/Chrono stunning Tidehunter to prevent the use of another ability? ° With the laning in that game, was it vaguely the equivalent of a laneswapped LoL match with the top laner vs the ranged carry + support? It seemed the Dark Seer/Beastmaster were zoned or having to farm under tower while the Naga Siren/Faceless Void freefarmed. How is pressure relieved on the heroes in the 1v2 situation? ° DotA2 is fairly much a direct port of DotA1 that is still in progress, right? Does that mean the DotA2 meta will shift towards the state of DotA1 as all heroes are ported, or are they fairly distinct?
This thread exists for questions, so no need to worry.
#2: Yup. There are three factors, first Rubick has no cast animation so he can cast his steal INSTANTLY, Tidehunter has a small post-animation so he can't immediately use another skill when Rubick isn't caught directly in his Ravage. Second, if Rubick is caught at the edge of the ravage it has a slight travel time towards him so he can use that window to steal the spell. Third, his spell steal range is slightly bigger than tide ravage range - if he positions himself correctly he won't get caught but can safely steal the spell. If you look at Dendis / Tides positioning they are dancing around with one side trying to get into/out of each others range.
#3 Heroes like DS or BM have ways to deal with 1n2 or even 1n3 situations (e.g. Iron shell / Axes to sneak creeps or Beastmaster ancient stacking to catch up later). It's really hard to compare laneswaps with league because of the way the short/long lanes work (the short lane can usually pull multiple jungle camps to deny farm e.g.), in general the 1n2 or 1n3 heroes either find ways to deal with it, jungle a little and hope the guy on the enemy team in the same situation is having a similarly bad time as they do. Maybe someone else can give some more insight on this topic tho.
#4: From what I understand yes and yes. There are some small mechanical changes due to engine limitations in DotA 1, but the main goal is to recreate the game as good as possible and then to start patching it along with DotA 1.
(Gonna deal with #1 after I rewatch the game, maybe someone else has an answer before that. In general enchantress makes stuff happen very, very early into the game (lvl 1-4). Later on it's mostly about her ult and her heal which are both still pretty stronk.)
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Canada31494 Posts
Oh man, dis International. Navi gonna lose reigning champ status.
I feel like I honestly watched more DotA than LoL this weekend because DotA has been nonstop and I'm always out during the LoL games.
Makes me want to start learning again, but I also have to try and hit Gold before Season 2 ends.....argh....choices.....
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Double Elim is so fucking stupid.
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On September 03 2012 13:42 r.Evo wrote:
(Gonna deal with #1 after I rewatch the game, maybe someone else has an answer before that. In general enchantress makes stuff happen very, very early into the game (lvl 1-4). Later on it's mostly about her ult and her heal which are both still pretty stronk.)
Ah, thanks for the replies. Just found out I can download the replay of that match in my DotA2 client, so I'll try and rewatch it to see if I can figure it out for myself (hopefully in slow-motion). Another thread linked a series of instructional/transitioning-from-LoL Dota2 YouTubes (here), so I'll make my way through those now this weekend's tournaments are done.
Oh, by the way, something that occasionally gets bought up in our GD thread is LoL's lack of aggressive midgame items (vs big lategame items) compared to DotA2, and the timing window these things can create - what are these sorts of items, and were there any games this weekend where the decision/tradeoff of the kind of items your team built had a significant impact?
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United States47024 Posts
On September 03 2012 08:47 Haasts wrote:
° What was Enchantress' role in those fights in G3?
Enchantress' role in teamfights is typically that of her heal and as a secondary DPS point (her ultimate does pure damage, so it scales extremely well--and she only really needs Aghanim's to perform as an acceptable DPS source). She can also be a carrier for certain team items, as her comparatively safe positioning generally allows some flexibility in using them (though there are often better carriers for those items--it often takes her a while to get items going as she has comparatively low farm priority).
On September 03 2012 08:47 Haasts wrote:
° With regards to Rubick stealing abilities, it steals the last-used ability by the targeted hero, right? So the the Tidehunter uses his ult, and then attempts to use another skill before Rubick can steal it - was it Rubick being v.fast with the steal, or Leshrac/Chrono stunning Tidehunter to prevent the use of another ability?
Evo answered this question much better than I could.
On September 03 2012 08:47 Haasts wrote:
° With the laning in that game, was it vaguely the equivalent of a laneswapped LoL match with the top laner vs the ranged carry + support? It seemed the Dark Seer/Beastmaster were zoned or having to farm under tower while the Naga Siren/Faceless Void freefarmed. How is pressure relieved on the heroes in the 1v2 situation?
Current DotA 2 play generally involves 3-1-1 or 2-1-1+jungle setups. Due to the asymmetry of the map, the preference is for your duo/trilane to be on the short lane (the lane adjacent to your jungle). This is because it allows your supports to pull creeps and farm jungle camps while your carry farms the lanes. You can run an aggressive trilane (trilane in your hard lane)--generally aimed at suppressing the development of the enemy carry--but this is generally risky and requires you to a) have the stronger trilane, and b) be able to get kills--an aggressive trilane that does not get kills is severely hampered midgame, due to the lack of levels on the supports (since they don't get to pull creeps).
This means that 1v2+jungle and 1v3 matchups are quite common. For the most part, teams have to plan around those lanes remaining in place for some time. The goal of the 1v2/1v3 laner is to squeeze out as much farm as they can in their unsafe lane, while also trying to disrupt the enemy carry's ability to farm. Different hard laners have varying effectiveness at doing this in different ways. Typically there's not much you'd expect to do about this freefarm situation very early, though if the enemy carry is doing better than yours, then you will have to rely on gank effectiveness from your mid lane ganker, or for your trilane to push the enemy's tower. You'll notice in many games where the team seemingly suddenly decides to push the enemy outer tower from their trilane. While their carry could just freeze the lane and farm forever, it's more likely that the game state dictates that you start moving the game forward, hence the seemingly sudden decision to push.
On September 03 2012 08:47 Haasts wrote:
° DotA2 is fairly much a direct port of DotA1 that is still in progress, right? Does that mean the DotA2 meta will shift towards the state of DotA1 as all heroes are ported, or are they fairly distinct?
There will be a noticeable shift toward DotA 1 (there already has been--only 1 really significant competitive DotA 1 hero, Tauren Chieftain, remains unported), though there are still some differences due to the mechanics of the games. For example Tinker is much stronger due to the differences in collision detection for his March of the Machines.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 03 2012 15:59 Haasts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 13:42 r.Evo wrote:
(Gonna deal with #1 after I rewatch the game, maybe someone else has an answer before that. In general enchantress makes stuff happen very, very early into the game (lvl 1-4). Later on it's mostly about her ult and her heal which are both still pretty stronk.) Ah, thanks for the replies. Just found out I can download the replay of that match in my DotA2 client, so I'll try and rewatch it to see if I can figure it out for myself (hopefully in slow-motion). Another thread linked a series of instructional/transitioning-from-LoL Dota2 YouTubes ( here), so I'll make my way through those now this weekend's tournaments are done. Oh, by the way, something that occasionally gets bought up in our GD thread is LoL's lack of aggressive midgame items (vs big lategame items) compared to DotA2, and the timing window these things can create - what are these sorts of items, and were there any games this weekend where the decision/tradeoff of the kind of items your team built had a significant impact?
The best example I can think of off the top of my head was the EHOME vs Orange Loser's Bracket game. Lanm's Tiny had immense teamfight effectiveness with Phase+Janggo+Yasha, even in the face of a Morphling that was insanely far ahead.
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Hi ,
Can some1 pls explain me the mindset when it comes to early game laning and use of teleports ?
I come from LOL ( 2k games ) and this aspect of game is curently most confusing to me ..... as i'm used to ''blue pill'' and walk back fast - since map is smaller.
None of champion guides state that Teleport scroll should be purchased as starting item. ( How many scrolls should i purchase per game average , ofc it dipends on game and strat , but in general ?)
3X green tree eating things barely provide sustain in lane compared to dmg that enemy skills / mobs or acidental tower hits dish out. aka how should i sustain myself in lane porperly ?
Scenario - i got hit by enemy skils and left with 100 hp pre lv6 ( No tp scroll no hp pots/fruits ) - what should be my actions in dota 2 ?
Thnx in advance
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None of champion guides state that Teleport scroll should be purchased as starting item. ( How many scrolls should i purchase per game average , ofc it dipends on game and strat , but in general ?)
You should not start tp scroll you can buy them on the sidelane shop or you can buy it in base and transfer with the courier (if you are midlane)
3X green tree eating things barely provide sustain in lane compared to dmg that enemy skills / mobs or acidental tower hits dish out. aka how should i sustain myself in lane porperly ?
Enemy skills cost a lot of mana tangos are fine they fall a bit off though healthpots in league are longer usefull.
Scenario - i got hit by enemy skils and left with 100 hp pre lv6 ( No tp scroll no hp pots/fruits ) - what should be my actions in dota 2 ?
completly depends what do you have as items (I imagine no regen) how much mana/health the enemy has etc etc but probably just walk in base buy tp scroll and go back to lane
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On September 03 2012 19:41 Ente wrote:Show nested quote +None of champion guides state that Teleport scroll should be purchased as starting item. ( How many scrolls should i purchase per game average , ofc it dipends on game and strat , but in general ?) You should not start tp scroll you can buy them on the sidelane shop or you can buy it in base and transfer with the courier (if you are midlane) Show nested quote +3X green tree eating things barely provide sustain in lane compared to dmg that enemy skills / mobs or acidental tower hits dish out. aka how should i sustain myself in lane porperly ? Enemy skills cost a lot of mana tangos are fine they fall a bit off though healthpots in league are longer usefull. Show nested quote +
Scenario - i got hit by enemy skils and left with 100 hp pre lv6 ( No tp scroll no hp pots/fruits ) - what should be my actions in dota 2 ?
completly depends what do you have as items (I imagine no regen) how much mana/health the enemy has etc etc but probably just walk in base buy tp scroll and go back to lane
For TP scrolls a good way to think about it is that after 4-5 minutes you ALWAYS want to have one. TPs allow you to perform clutch escapes, ganks, counterganks, pushes/antipushes - it's just extremely versatile for you and the team. In some cases even at lvl 1-2 buying a quick TP scroll can be huge, especially in pubgames. This early they can easily turn an agressive dive into a double or triple kill for your team.
In the scenario you mentioned "it depends". Due to the courier there is literally no reason to ever die because you ran out of regen. You can let your lane partner ask to salve you (easiest), you can let the courier carry out a salve, you can run back and tp in, you can let the courier carry a tp to you and tp back.
If you're out of mana and health it might make more sense to just walk back, if you're comparatively safe from being dived courier-> salve might make more sense. In general (due to limited regen compared to league and juking mechanisms with trees) you can however say that clarities/healthpots/tangos don't fall of as much as comparatable items in league. It's quite common to see people ferry out a few clarities or a healthpot 20 minutes into the game.
PS: Copypasting your post into multiple threads just to get a faster answer is kind of annoying. You probably shouldn't do that, just use one thread. You can always ask in another if one doesn't get you an answer.
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ok I have a question, what is the advantage to stacking ancients as opposed to just killing them on spawn
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You generally stack ancients either when you can't kill them YET or you stack them for somebody else or you plan to kill them with aoe skills and it saves you a lot of time this way
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On September 03 2012 23:50 Slusher wrote:
ok I have a question, what is the advantage to stacking ancients as opposed to just killing them on spawn
-You can stack them from the first minute on, while you might need like 8-10 minutes to be able to take them on.
-If you have good AoE clears (March of machines, Axes) you can damage the camp AND stack them at the same time for max profit / time invested.
For some lanes (e.g. BM) it's something they do when they get kicked out of lane because it pays off in the long run. In general it's a way of maximizing farming speed / total gold available to your team on the map.
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Hey guys, will be looking to join the group and learn a few things:D
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would love to play some dota today, hit me up on steam and learn me good plz
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On September 04 2012 03:04 Ziken wrote:
Hey guys, will be looking to join the group and learn a few things:D
^- he's Rillasm on Steam, added him.
SAURUS ILL GET SOME FOOD THEN WE CAN PLAY
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Any support-ish player want to play with me? ._.
I just started playing again and as I'm playing hardcarries the games tend to be pretty hmm... meh
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hello pls. i want to spam AM games until i learn about all the new heroes that were released since i stopped playing (i think last one was phantom lancer) cuz having 2 abilities and super blink is op and i like to farm 400 cs. anyone who wants to accompany or guide me in my journey i will <3 u 4eva.
some tl-lol-dota ppl have me added. i think my name is just Navi on steam
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EPT
