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While this thread is labeled "DotA2", this is in fact a community thread first. Many of the users in the TL LoL subforum have been playing as friends for over a year now, so it makes logical sense that they would want to play other games together.
Do not compare DotA2 to LoL, you will get banned.
TL LoL veterans know what is expected. Newcomers be warned.
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On July 17 2012 03:38 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:29 arnath wrote:
Watching pro games, I see a lot of situations where people are pushing a tower with creeps, the tower starts attacking them, and then they somehow drop aggro from the tower back to the creeps without going out of range. Does anybody know how this is done? a-click (attack+left click) on one of your own creeps (no matter which health), then the tower switches aggro off you. Also works for minions (e.g. Chen/Ench creeps or Lycan wolves). Also usually surprises people if you tell them about it in pub games.
Yeah I never understood how the hell tower aggro worked in DotA, but that is a very interesting trick. Why does it work that way?
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On July 18 2012 02:16 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 03:38 r.Evo wrote:On July 17 2012 03:29 arnath wrote:
Watching pro games, I see a lot of situations where people are pushing a tower with creeps, the tower starts attacking them, and then they somehow drop aggro from the tower back to the creeps without going out of range. Does anybody know how this is done? a-click (attack+left click) on one of your own creeps (no matter which health), then the tower switches aggro off you. Also works for minions (e.g. Chen/Ench creeps or Lycan wolves). Also usually surprises people if you tell them about it in pub games. Yeah I never understood how the hell tower aggro worked in DotA, but that is a very interesting trick. Why does it work that way?
Afaik the tower just goes for the closest target after his last one died, not 100% sure though if that's all. Hopefully someone else can give more input. :o
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On July 18 2012 00:33 Two_DoWn wrote:
How does the matchmaking work in dota? Is mmr based soley on wins like lol or what?
afaik it's based on wins and what bracket you put yourself in at the very very beginning of signing up.
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It isnt. People are on pretty much erry day.
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I'm not so sure about people being on every day. I see like the same 5 people in the LiquidParty chat in the cilent ;/ and they are afk.
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Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the team liquid forums. I stumbled upon this thread while looking for a DotA 2 channel with people to queue with. I'm very friendly and open to criticism so don't be afraid to tell me what I'm doing that might be wrong. I also don't "rage" at people much, I tend to try to teach rather than "OMFGWTFBBQ DID YOU TAKE THE Q BUTTON OFF YOUR KEYBOARD RETARD?".
Let's have fun together, shall we? 
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On July 30 2012 11:16 SharkbaitHooHahHah wrote:Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the team liquid forums. I stumbled upon this thread while looking for a DotA 2 channel with people to queue with. I'm very friendly and open to criticism so don't be afraid to tell me what I'm doing that might be wrong. I also don't "rage" at people much, I tend to try to teach rather than "OMFGWTFBBQ DID YOU TAKE THE Q BUTTON OFF YOUR KEYBOARD RETARD?". Let's have fun together, shall we?
Just stopped by to say that is a fantastic username.
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On July 30 2012 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2012 11:16 SharkbaitHooHahHah wrote:Hi everyone! I'm a newbie to the team liquid forums. I stumbled upon this thread while looking for a DotA 2 channel with people to queue with. I'm very friendly and open to criticism so don't be afraid to tell me what I'm doing that might be wrong. I also don't "rage" at people much, I tend to try to teach rather than "OMFGWTFBBQ DID YOU TAKE THE Q BUTTON OFF YOUR KEYBOARD RETARD?". Let's have fun together, shall we? Just stopped by to say that is a fantastic username.
It especially goes well with one of mine. =D
Despite that guy being new to TL, not involved in the League forum nor anywhere else for that matter I decided to add him and see how things go. Was kind of cute that he thought we're some kind of official DotA 2 group on TL, apparently we're top #3 results if you just search for "DotA 2".
ALSO WAVE WHY U NEVER PLAY WITH ME T_T
PS: I'm moving in with my gf in August and since German ISPs suck complete balls I won't have decent internet for the next 4-6 weeks. No dotas for me until then. (I'm still hoping that I find a cool neighbour with wireless at our new apartement, but that's rather unlikely I guess. =/ ...)
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http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004861670
Hey all, just switched from LoL to Dota and have some questions to ask.
What the hell does Pugna do? I randomed the hero and was completely lost, granted I didn't go mid because I don't trust myself TT. His skills just seem to have no cohesion they are just kind of there. Any help would be appreciated cause he looked interesting when I played him.
How does one start as Furion? I know his general build is midas then agi carry items but I have no idea where to start. The jungle is vastly different in LoL and Furion seemed like a good place to start.
Thanks in advance, oh kind wizards of TL!
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On August 10 2012 14:59 .AK wrote:http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198004861670Hey all, just switched from LoL to Dota and have some questions to ask. What the hell does Pugna do? I randomed the hero and was completely lost, granted I didn't go mid because I don't trust myself TT. His skills just seem to have no cohesion they are just kind of there. Any help would be appreciated cause he looked interesting when I played him. How does one start as Furion? I know his general build is midas then agi carry items but I have no idea where to start. The jungle is vastly different in LoL and Furion seemed like a good place to start. Thanks in advance, oh kind wizards of TL!
i'm posting too much T-T work is so boring lol... but anyways to answer your questions:
Pugna's skillset is actually complements itself very well. His Decrepify (W) makes enemies unable to attack and slows them, but most importantly makes them take increased magic damage. This combos really well with your Nether Blast (Q), which is a huge aoe damage nuke. W can also be used on yourself/allies to save them from auto-attackers, but be careful since it makes them vulnerable to nukes. Pugna's also generally taken as a pusher/counter-pusher since his Q does massive aoe damage and can do somewhat significant damage to towers. Nether Ward (E) is arguably Pugna's strongest skill. It does massive damage based on the mana cost of your enemies skills when they try to cast. The damage from this skill is insane in a teamfight since most pubs won't pick up on it and kill the ward. It's also an amazing anti-initiation tool in some scenarios, especially against Sand King. The damage is dealt at the start of the cast, so you can often prevent someone from using Blink Dagger since the ward will damage them and put Blink on cooldown. His ulti is good dps, but is channeled so it's super situational when you want to get it/use it. Overall, Pugna fits more of a support role.
Furion is very versatile. There's several ways to play him. Most common is probably that of jungler. General rule of thumb is if you can get Midas really early, like sub 15 minutes or something, it's worth it. Past that, don't bother. Prophet can either build towards right-clicking ranged carry or get more utility items like Sheepstick. Imo, going the utility route is probably better, but in pubs it can be helpful to go carry Prophet with dps items/Agahnims. Generally you want to start with Treants (E) and just jungle. Skill build varies but in general, Treants and Teleport take highest priority, but you want a few levels in Sprout to assist in fights. Ulti whenever you can, obviously. Keep an eye out on the map and abuse your global teleport. Assist ganks whenever possible, even if it's just you autoattacking. Don't spam your ulti unless your team sucks and you need to steal farm to carry. Your ulti's best for pushing/counterpushing. It also does a hefty amount of damage in fights; use it on the opposite side of the map of your intended target. By the time it bounces to your target, it'll be doing near max damage.
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Tyvm. When jungling with Furion where exactly do you start. In LoL there is they very standard wolves -> blue -> wraiths etc. is there a basic route like that for jungling in Dota? Thanks again!
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United States47024 Posts
I would play more if I wasn't so busy from work. Hopefully schedule slows down soon and I get more time to play.
Miniguide time:
Pugna: pusher/caster semi-carry
Pros: Pushes shit fast, strong in lane, high base MS (315 base MS on a ranged hero WTF), decent ganks, NETHER WARD IS A GAY SKILL WTF, Decrepify neat utility
Cons: SO SQUISHY
Laning/Position: Mid or either sidelane can work. YOU NEED FARM. Don't play as a support, you are useless without mana and survivability items. In low level, 90% of matchups can be played as follows:
- Blast waves for CS
- Blast towers for tower damage
- Collect every rune cuz you push their shit in
- Gank if you get good runes--Haste/Invis best, DD can work but awkward, Regen/Illu just use them to push harder (skip this step if you're sidelane)
- If they leave to gank or whatever, just take their tower at 5 minutes
Skill order: Q>E>R>W, with 1 rank of W somewhere early just to have it (usually 2 or 4, but in some lanes its pointless so you just level ward). DON'T LEVEL DRAIN LIFE TILL YOU HAVE THE MANA ITEMS TO SUPPORT IT. Ranks of Blast/Ward are way more important before then.
Items:
- Start with Tango+Salve+4xBranches (mid), or Tango+Salve+Ring of Protection+3xBranches (sidelane)
- Bottle if mid, Basilius if sidelane
- Core items: Arcanes->Mekansm->Force Staff (sometimes Janggo instead of Force Staff if you need survivability, but usually Force Staff)
- Potential items after core: Sheepstick, Shiva's, Pipe, Aghanim's, BKB (usually you can just get Sheep->Shiva's, other stuff much more situational)
Other tips as Pugna:
- Practice the Blast->Decrepify combo (Blast has a slight casting delay, which is actually longer than the duration of rank 1 Decrepify--noob guides all say get 2 ranks Decrepify, but all good Pugna players Blast first, then cast Decrepify during the casting delay)
- Good Nether Ward positions (don't have a picture for this unfortunately) -- always try to stick the Ward in a position where it won't get autoattacked down. Ward has super OP range anyway, so you can stick it in some super weird inaccessible spot.
- You can Decrepify your Ward to make it immune to autoattacks.
- PUGNA WITH DESOLATOR, S&Y, OR MAELSTROM/MJOLLNIR CAN ATTACK WHILE DECREPIFIED. REMEMBER THIS FOR THE ULTIMATE DPS PUGNA BUILDS.
Furion miniguide inc. when I finish it
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Alright going to go play some games now thanks for the help.
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On August 10 2012 15:41 .AK wrote:
Tyvm. When jungling with Furion where exactly do you start. In LoL there is they very standard wolves -> blue -> wraiths etc. is there a basic route like that for jungling in Dota? Thanks again!
Jungle in DotA's a bit different in that all camps spawn every minute (so 1:00, 2:00, etc...cept the first spawn which is at 0:30 iirc) as long as there's nothing already there. Camps are also more or less random. There's a small camp (weakest camp), 2 medium camps, and 2 large camps (hardest camp). The actual monsters that spawn are random, but they all fit into those three categories. Essentially what that means is you can basically start anywhere. The limiting factors are whether or not you can actually kill them and how fast you can kill them. Being able to kill them isn't an issue for Prophet. However, you want to kill camps fast enough so that you don't kill the camp as the spawn time rolls around as camps won't respawn if you're too close to the camp (there's tricks like stacking/pulling camps to get around the timer limitation, but I'll get to that later.) Generally, I see people jump between the small camp and the nearby large/medium camps for maximum farm, but you can start anywhere and do pretty much any path.
Neat trick in general. Since camps respawn every minute, you can pull the jungle creep away from their location, thus tricking the game into thinking there's nothing there at the minute mark and respawning the camp. This way, you essentially get more time to kill the previous camp without stopping the respawn, thus maximizing the jungle's gold potential. This is also essential to sidelane play for supports past low level games. Basically, what you want to do, is if you're still fighting the camp at around X:53, just pull away from the camp. The monsters will chase you and if you pull them far enough, the camp will be clear at the minute mark and respawn. However, I do NOT recommend you do this at early levels since you won't have enough treants to tank for you and your dps isn't high enough to kill multiple camps at the same time w/out being overwhelmed.
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United States47024 Posts
Furion: pusher, ganker, caster semi-carry
Pros: ganks whenever he wants, pushes like a monster, farms like a monster, impossible to keep lane pressure against Furion's team because he can always ult to counterpush shit
Cons: No escape, no hard CC, no real ANYTHING for teamfighting, so only contributes to teamfights by having items and levels
Laning/Position: can be played any position (and I mean any--solo mid/easy/hard lane, jungle, roaming support--ALL of them). For this guide I'm going to focus on jungle because nobody ever wants to play any of that other shit.
Starting items: Tangoes + 2-3 Clarities + 2 Branches + some combination of the following
- Courier (if your team is stupid and nobody else is buying one)
- Wards (if your team is stupid and nobody else is buying one)
- Smoke (not useful for you--only do this if your support is someone you know has a brain and can use this)
- More branches (spend the rest of your starting gold and fill remaining slots)
Basic jungle shit:
- Refer to this map for which camps I am talking about: http://www.playdota.com/img/guides/1244151746.jpg
- Spawn treants at the start of the game, and use them to scout. If you're sneaky about where they go in the jungle, you can get vision of which enemies are in what lanes. DON'T LET YOUR TREANTS GET KILLED BY ENEMIES BECAUSE THEY GIVE LIKE 20 XP AND 15 GOLD AND THAT SHIT MATTERS EARLY GAME. For reference, Treant has 37 second CD and 60 second duration.
- Make sure you cast 1 set of Treants from base at ~45-50 seconds before creeps spawn. Position those Treants to watch the 2 rune spawns. They will time out just after 0:00 which means they can see which side the rune spawns on, and autoattack the rune if your team is bad and nobody is going to get it.
- Jungle camps all spawn at 0:30. This means you should spawn a set of Treants in base at ~7-10 seconds before creeps spawn, so you can use 2 sets of Treants on your first camp.
- Walk to the large camp closest to your base. Make sure you don't get there too early and block the camp from spawning. Summon a 2nd set of treants and kill the large camp. This should get you level 2 unless you got unlucky and got centaur spawns.
- MICRO YOUR TREANTS. PULL THEM AWAY IF THEY'RE GOING TO DIE AND LET A DIFFERENT ONE TANK. On the first camp, make sure you let the treants that you spawned from base tank first because they're going to time out anyway.
- After the large camp, take the small camp because it's easy. Doing the large camp after the beginning is a bit troublesome before you hit level 4, so rotate the medium camps and small camps.
- After 4, you can pretty much do whatever camps you want
Ganking:
- DON'T BE ONE OF THOSE DUMB FURIONS WHO ALWAYS FARM AND DON'T GANK
- Best time to start ganking is usually at level 3, don't underestimate your ability to gank at level 2. Lots of lanes have high enough damage/CC and just need you to be there with a few more autoattacks to secure a kill.
- Always be looking for a gank when your teleport is up, and you have the mana to TP+Sprout. Don't worry about farm, because it's impossible not to get farmed as Furion.
Pushing:
- Push intelligently. If you can't push a lane all the way out cleanly, then let someone else who needs the farm do it. You don't want to half-push the lane and then waste a ton of farm as the wave pushes itself across the river with no one to lasthit the creeps.
- At the same time, watch your minimap. If you feel you're in danger, there's nothing wrong with going back to farm jungle.
- DON'T USE YOUR ULTIMATE ON COOLDOWN. IT MAKES PEOPLE VERY ANGRY AND STARVES YOUR TEAM OF FARM. Generally speaking you want to use your ult to either 1) counterpush when the enemy team is trying to push, 2) create lane pressure when your team wants to push, or 3) get extra damage in on a gank/teamfight. If you're not using your ult for one of these 3, generally you're better off saving it for one of them.
Skill order: EWQE is pretty mucn non-negotiable for first 4 levels. Take ult whenever you can. After 4, choose between maxing W and E depending on how well ganks are going. If you can turn lower TP cd into more ganks because your teammates aren't stupid and follow up well, max W. If your teammates suck, and gank opportunities aren't coming faster than once a minutes, max E. Only level Q past rank 1 after W and E are maxed.
Items: As Ryuu said, Furion can usually build whatever. That said, there are a few paths of basic development
- Urn->Treads->Midas//Medallion->Treads->Midas -- Urn and Medallion are powerful early-game ganking items. Generally the idea is that these builds focus on creating pressure on all the lanes, and timing your Midas in a way that it lines up with the end of the laning phase, at which point Furion doesn't really want to fight, and just wants to split-push/farm until he has a big item anyway. As far as choosing between the two, you get Urn when no one else on your team has one (which is pretty much always in low-level pubs), and Medallion when someone does have Urn.
- Naked Midas -- Inferior to the above for ganking. Better if your team isn't good at following up ganks, and you just need to farm.
After which, there are a couple major options:
- Aghanim's -- for pushing/counterpushing
- Mekansm -- ALWAYS GET THIS ITEM IF NO ONE ELSE ON YOUR TEAM IS GETTING IT
- Sheepstick -- Stats + CC, should be your most common choice
- Necronomicon -- best pushing item, mana burn also good against mana-dependent heroes
- BKB+Mjollnir/MKB -- pubs come up with these weird Deso or Orchid DPS builds when they want autoattack DPS--THEY ARE BAD. Mjollnir and MKB have far superior single-item DPS.
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I'll get real interwebs on the 16th, I'll probably nerd a week straight to get my dota fix back in. New apartments so much work. =(
PS: glass fibre internet in january ggnore
PPS: Yango, I linked your miniguides in the OP as usual so they won't get lost. <3
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EPT
