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[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 81

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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.

Thanks. Happy Gaming.
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 05:52:56
March 07 2012 05:39 GMT
#1601
cait's trap is a snare, vayne's stun depends on positioning and terrain. Neither is reliable in every situation.

edit: how much of a difference do AS marks make compared to AD marks on single target junglers like jax and xin?
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
March 07 2012 05:54 GMT
#1602
Random, did you guys know that you can see enemy wards inside the vision of an enemy who has the Cait trap debuff? Can be kind of useful bot lane to pick off lane bush wards, just place a trap where an enemy ward is and kill it when someone steps on the trap if given the chance.
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
March 07 2012 05:58 GMT
#1603
On March 07 2012 14:54 Synystyr wrote:
Random, did you guys know that you can see enemy wards inside the vision of an enemy who has the Cait trap debuff? Can be kind of useful bot lane to pick off lane bush wards, just place a trap where an enemy ward is and kill it when someone steps on the trap if given the chance.


I miss the time when nid traps used to reveal wards. That shit was ridiculous haha
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
r.Evo
Profile Joined August 2006
Germany14081 Posts
March 07 2012 06:06 GMT
#1604
On March 07 2012 14:54 Synystyr wrote:
Random, did you guys know that you can see enemy wards inside the vision of an enemy who has the Cait trap debuff? Can be kind of useful bot lane to pick off lane bush wards, just place a trap where an enemy ward is and kill it when someone steps on the trap if given the chance.


Pretty sure that's not working as intended, lol.
"We don't make mistakes here, we call it happy little accidents." ~Bob Ross
Niton
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2395 Posts
March 07 2012 06:15 GMT
#1605
On March 07 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 14:30 Ryrk wrote:
On March 07 2012 14:11 sob3k wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 07 2012 14:04 Ryrk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 13:33 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
@ryrk 1) if you think that a full item AD carry doesn't deal enough damage I don't know what to say.


1) Are you kidding me? I didn't mean that at all. Of course a well-geared AD Carry is going to murder most things but unless you've got those items at an ABNORMAL speed, those "4-shot on everything" isn't going to happen except against supports and other squishies. The main idea of tanks is to make you kill the before you can kill everything else, and the idea behind a good AD carry is to either avoid him entirely or to kill him faster than the enemy AD can kill you. Kennen can neither avoid those tanks, nor kill them faster than anyone else can. He's just good at not dying which isn't the primary focus of what an AD carry wants to do.



Stuns and lightning rush are great for getting past tanks....


That's not exactly what I mean when I say "get past tanks". Champions like Ezreal or Corki can quickly hop over a wall to try and peel the tank while still being able to do some amount of damage using their skills, which are all on a relatively low CD. Kennen's dash is not a blink, and therefore more riskier as well as takes a longer time to reposition himself accordingly. It's better in open fights, but jungle fights around Baron and Dragon happen much more often than fights directly in the middle of the map.

And as stated previously, Lightning Rush's biggest drawback is that it's just a movespeed increase, but does provide a decent boost to armor/mr. Nevertheless, it makes him more vulnerable to being permaslowed, and being stunned while inside lightning rush is a lot worse than being stunned after a blink/dash. I'd rather have a blink/dash that's present on pretty much every other AD carry rather than a simple movespeed increase, which is a lot more risky in terms of what you can do with it. Getting caught in lane/open areas is a lot more preventable than getting caught in smaller area, such as the jungle.

Also his stun is 1 second...and has diminishing returns. When pretty much every tank is running 21 defense and mercs, do you REALLY think that's going to be a big role in stopping them?


Except sivir and ashe are perfectly viable without having dashes.

And seriously you say kennen is weak because he 'only has a 1 second stun'? Outside of ashe ECA which AD has any form of stun? Much less who can spam if every few seconds.


Sivir might not have a dash, but her passive is basically 50 movespeed and her ultimate is 20% movespeed on top of that. She might have issues, but in-combat mobility isn't one of them.
tree.hugger: Coming off of [(T)fantasy v. (T)Really] into [(T)Barracks v. (T)MVP] is like coming out of Manhattan into New Jersey. You just have to speed up and ignore it.
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
March 07 2012 06:18 GMT
#1606
On March 07 2012 14:39 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
cait's trap is a snare, vayne's stun depends on positioning and terrain. Neither is reliable in every situation.

edit: how much of a difference do AS marks make compared to AD marks on single target junglers like jax and xin?


I run AS with 1 crit chance Reds on Jax, and Xin jungle. I like it a lot, especially when I open Vamp, I notice my health stays much higher. If I didn't use the AS, I would use Armor Pen though. No reason to AD rune Jax anymore IMO.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
March 07 2012 06:51 GMT
#1607
i tried one game with with arp+ad instead of attack speed on jungle fiora and it was brutal, never again
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
March 07 2012 06:53 GMT
#1608
On March 07 2012 15:06 r.Evo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 14:54 Synystyr wrote:
Random, did you guys know that you can see enemy wards inside the vision of an enemy who has the Cait trap debuff? Can be kind of useful bot lane to pick off lane bush wards, just place a trap where an enemy ward is and kill it when someone steps on the trap if given the chance.


Pretty sure that's not working as intended, lol.

You can see wards when you use tf ult if the person is standing close enough to them.
anmolsinghmzn2009
Profile Joined June 2011
India1783 Posts
March 07 2012 06:55 GMT
#1609
I just got AD reds cuz they were priced the least and they lead to easier last hitting in lane
Dunk first. Ask questions while dunking.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
March 07 2012 07:52 GMT
#1610
what is the difference between "player attack move click" and "attack move" in keybindings?
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
March 07 2012 07:57 GMT
#1611
On March 07 2012 16:52 UniversalSnip wrote:
what is the difference between "player attack move click" and "attack move" in keybindings?

Iirc «Attack move click» is like a smartcast attack move.
The legend of Darien lives on
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
March 07 2012 07:58 GMT
#1612
oooooooh.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
March 07 2012 08:33 GMT
#1613
On March 07 2012 14:54 Synystyr wrote:
Random, did you guys know that you can see enemy wards inside the vision of an enemy who has the Cait trap debuff? Can be kind of useful bot lane to pick off lane bush wards, just place a trap where an enemy ward is and kill it when someone steps on the trap if given the chance.

Pretty sure it's a bug, but when the enemy is standing over their ward and you hit them with a lee sin Q it reveals the ward aswell.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
Shiv.
Profile Joined January 2011
3534 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 09:55:26
March 07 2012 09:54 GMT
#1614
On March 07 2012 14:39 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:

edit: how much of a difference do AS marks make compared to AD marks on single target junglers like jax and xin?

Due to Jax' new passive, I'd argue he's one of the junglers who need AS marks the least. On a lot of other popular junglers (Udyr, Shyv, Mao, Noc, Xin instantly come to mind), they're pretty much mandatory, though. You can easily clear your jungle without them, but you'll be faster and hence safer if you do use them.

If you're stuck with AD marks for the time being, I'd suggest giving Lee Sin a shot. You can run him +15 AD on runes or a mixture of AD and ArP and it works like a charm. Reasons being his passive that gives him AS for the next 2 attacks everytime he uses a spell and his still very decent AD scaling.
currently rooting for myself.
Celial
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
2602 Posts
March 07 2012 11:03 GMT
#1615
So lets assume aggressive counterjungling, Shyvana and Lee Sin. Who would win when they meet up in the jungle? At level 3? 5? 6? With ult and without ult?
Do not regret. Always forward, never back.
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
March 07 2012 11:13 GMT
#1616
On March 07 2012 20:03 Celial wrote:
So lets assume aggressive counterjungling, Shyvana and Lee Sin. Who would win when they meet up in the jungle? At level 3? 5? 6? With ult and without ult?

The one who's teammember has a brain would win.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
March 07 2012 14:05 GMT
#1617
On March 07 2012 20:03 Celial wrote:
So lets assume aggressive counterjungling, Shyvana and Lee Sin. Who would win when they meet up in the jungle? At level 3? 5? 6? With ult and without ult?


afaik lee is the superior duelist, tho not necessarily by much. And ya, a lot of counterjungling depends on teammates almost as much as it depends on the junglers.
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Terranasaur
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2085 Posts
March 07 2012 16:17 GMT
#1618
On March 07 2012 18:54 Shiv. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 14:39 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:

edit: how much of a difference do AS marks make compared to AD marks on single target junglers like jax and xin?

Due to Jax' new passive, I'd argue he's one of the junglers who need AS marks the least. On a lot of other popular junglers (Udyr, Shyv, Mao, Noc, Xin instantly come to mind), they're pretty much mandatory, though. You can easily clear your jungle without them, but you'll be faster and hence safer if you do use them.

If you're stuck with AD marks for the time being, I'd suggest giving Lee Sin a shot. You can run him +15 AD on runes or a mixture of AD and ArP and it works like a charm. Reasons being his passive that gives him AS for the next 2 attacks everytime he uses a spell and his still very decent AD scaling.


I don't run AS Reds on Shy. I run AD Reds and AS quints. To me it makes more sense with scaling.
Decisions Determine Destiny - Terranasaur#1719 D3 #557 SC2 3DS FC: 2423-3623-8068
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-07 16:25:08
March 07 2012 16:24 GMT
#1619
On March 08 2012 01:17 Terranasaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 07 2012 18:54 Shiv. wrote:
On March 07 2012 14:39 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:

edit: how much of a difference do AS marks make compared to AD marks on single target junglers like jax and xin?

Due to Jax' new passive, I'd argue he's one of the junglers who need AS marks the least. On a lot of other popular junglers (Udyr, Shyv, Mao, Noc, Xin instantly come to mind), they're pretty much mandatory, though. You can easily clear your jungle without them, but you'll be faster and hence safer if you do use them.

If you're stuck with AD marks for the time being, I'd suggest giving Lee Sin a shot. You can run him +15 AD on runes or a mixture of AD and ArP and it works like a charm. Reasons being his passive that gives him AS for the next 2 attacks everytime he uses a spell and his still very decent AD scaling.


I don't run AS Reds on Shy. I run AD Reds and AS quints. To me it makes more sense with scaling.

oh god...

I want you to conduct an experiment for me.

write down the stats you get from your AD Reds and AS Quints page.

now I want you to instead use 6 AS Reds, 3 AD Reds, and 3 AD Quints.

write down the stats you get from that page.

compare and report the results in this thread.
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
March 07 2012 16:37 GMT
#1620
I've been wondering how you're supposed to build an AD carry defensively late game.
What items do you get and how many defensive items?
I've been trying negatron Warmogs, though I think some people like just GA, or just BV. I reserve my 4 other slots for IE Pdancer LW (replacing vamp scepter) boots (replacing boots with another pdancer or BT).
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