EPTSUPA FUN :D
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 79
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
SUPA FUN :D | ||
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deskscaress
United States399 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:22 Parnage wrote: Yes the best players in the world can do some really risky really dangerous things and get away with it and make it work. However just because it can work doesn't mean it's not highly risky and has flaws(to use your own example plenty of games where those 14CC openings didn't pay off but that didn't stop him from being called a God). I don't see AD kennen as the reason they won. A part? Yes, of course but I feel that what he does anyone of the normal ad's can do just as well. In short they would of won because they played better not because of the AD kennen. Perhaps I am just not seeing the insane genius of AD Kennen, sorry but I am not. I honestly didn't expect this much of a strong pro AD kennen reaction. Downright scary. i mean i don't want to call you out here but you're basically being a chode m5 did not "come up" with AD kennen, there have been AD kennen players floating around since he came out. TL's very own soloside plays a vicious AD kennen and there was another player who got to 2k (or was it just 1900? either way, not a trivial number) playing exclusively AD kennen. no one is saying that AD kennen is the best bot lane (well, except me). people are just saying he's a good first pick because he is viable in every lane. just because you don't want something "to be a thing" doesn't mean it isn't User was warned for this post | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
im sure the ezreal mentioned has tons of mobility and is hard to catch too but i kindly refer you to TOO ezreal quotes and probably most importantly, i think ad kennen is legitimately fun to play | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:14 Celial wrote: Hey guys, I was wondering - I'm not that good but steadily improving - which junglers can carry the hardest when the team is completely fucking up and feeding and losing lanes hard? Lee Sin comes to mind, but while I feel that I have his basics down he is much too hard to play (for me!!!) on a level where he unfolds his potential (hitting that Q... qq). Then I was thinking about Gangplank, AD/MS steroid, global ult, free (sort of) cleanse, slow and Q does good dmg/applies on hit effects at range. What do you guys think? While other champs like Rammus, Udyr, Skarner have good ganks, I don't feel like I'm able to carry on them. Any other champs than can carry hard out of the jungle? Edit: Mundo comes to mind for mid-game dominance or AD Sion? Thanks and have a great day guys! IMO GP is one of the hardest junglers to play effectively. His clear speed is strictly average and so are his ganks. However, he has absolute monstrous late game scaling combined with an amazing team steroid in his E plus global presence with his ulti. The problem is that to play GP jungle effectively you need to have really good understanding of the game and the jungle. Otherwise you'll end up relatively underfarmed due to his meh clear speed and you also probably won't be getting that many good ganks off. Udyr and Skarner can definitely carry a team pretty well. Shyvana is good at that too. All three of them hit this sweet spot in the midgame where they do tons of damage while being basically unkillable. Lee Sin and Maokai have monster ganks and can usually carry a team that way although like you said, Lee Sin isn't easy to learn. Maokai's not as complex, but he tends to fall off a bit faster than other junglers. His early ganks are almost without par, however. If you want really farm oriented jungler carries I'd recommend WW. He doesn't offer much map presence until he hits 6, but his late-game is almost without peer and his ulti ganks are very strong, especially if your lanes have follow-up cc. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 07 2012 10:59 chalice wrote: does anyone have a better self-peel than ad kennen? is anyone more forgiving of positional mistakes? is anyone harder to gank or less reliant on solid support play to stay alive? im sure the ezreal mentioned has tons of mobility and is hard to catch too but i kindly refer you to TOO ezreal quotes and probably most importantly, i think ad kennen is legitimately fun to play Tristana is both a better self peeler and more fun to play :p | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On March 07 2012 10:59 chalice wrote: does anyone have a better self-peel than ad kennen? is anyone more forgiving of positional mistakes? is anyone harder to gank or less reliant on solid support play to stay alive? im sure the ezreal mentioned has tons of mobility and is hard to catch too but i kindly refer you to TOO ezreal quotes and probably most importantly, i think ad kennen is legitimately fun to play vayne or trist would have a word | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 07 2012 11:38 57 Corvette wrote: In long games as AD carries (Like longer than 45 mins), after you get 400 CS and your full build, what do you do with all your spare money? buff pots? | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On March 07 2012 11:38 57 Corvette wrote: In long games as AD carries (Like longer than 45 mins), after you get 400 CS and your full build, what do you do with all your spare money? Pots. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 07 2012 11:38 57 Corvette wrote: In long games as AD carries (Like longer than 45 mins), after you get 400 CS and your full build, what do you do with all your spare money? sell boots and get another PD, elixers, sometimes selling an item and grabbing a GA for one final push can help make a difference. but mostly elixers. | ||
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Ryrk
United States82 Posts
The most important drawback of AD Kennen is the lack of damage you can even produce. Sure, it's pretty consistent. Sure, you're downright hard to kill. But those traits often times aren't even wanted. More often that not you're going to need the extra damage output that Corki or Graves provides rather than have a consistent AD carry that flat out deals less in the same amount of time. Also, the other AD Kennen player was Azen Zagenite. I'm pretty sure he quit, but does anyone know if he's the same Azen from SSBM? | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 07 2012 11:57 Ryrk wrote: TOO is known for being downright STUPID when it comes to certain things. Ezreal is one of them. I'd prefer if you didn't blindly follow a high elo player's opinion who doesn't even play AD carry. Although it doesn't mean anything in terms of argument, I've had the misfortune of going 15/4 as Ezreal while TOO/TRM duo were busy trying to pin the blame on me for throwing the game by picking him. Yes, I was pretty mad. The most important drawback of AD Kennen is the lack of damage you can even produce. Sure, it's pretty consistent. Sure, you're downright hard to kill. But those traits often times aren't even wanted. More often that not you're going to need the extra damage output that Corki or Graves provides rather than have a consistent AD carry that flat out deals less in the same amount of time. Also, the other AD Kennen player was Azen Zagenite. I'm pretty sure he quit, but does anyone know if he's the same Azen from SSBM? Pretty sure I heard that was the same Azen but I'm of course not sure about how reliable the person from whom I heard that is. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
maybe it's just because im bad, but even before the nerfs i found it much, much easier to die as vayne compared to kennen tristana is pretty awesome though | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
His w is a 16% (roughly) damage steroid. | ||
anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
You pick AD kennen to fuck with them in picking phase, and then have a champion that is really strong early game, isn't limited by mana costs in lane for harass, has a skill that lets him reposition, can dish out multiple stuns in a relatively short period of time (seen any AD carry that has a stun except for ashe ult?) and has an ultimate that discourages divers. Come lategame I don't feel the damage steroids of an AD are the issue, imo its more important how safe they are. Cuz if ur AD gets caught or dies, you're basically screwed. So kennen is pretty strong in that regard. Did I say kennen is like the best AD ever? Hell no. There IS no best AD. Everything is situational. Vayne shreds tanks, corki/ezreal have great poke, trist has huge range and great AS steroid plus an ult that is really powerful in teamfights. And kennen has great laning phase, ability to dish out multiple stuns and is really safe to divers. Sure kennen is a really good AP. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try out new stuff or that other playstyles are bad. This game by its very nature rewards experimentation and creativity. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
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Ryrk
United States82 Posts
On March 07 2012 12:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: why do people seem to ignore the fact that any champion with an IE; PD, BT and LW just 4-shots everyone lategame regardless of their personal steroids anyways. Sure maybe vayne will take one less shot to kill stuff but at that point it doesn't matter much. What the hell? Unless you're really really fed this isn't true at all, unless you're basing those numbers off a level 12 support 30 mins into the game... You pick AD kennen to fuck with them in picking phase, and then have a champion that is really strong early game, isn't limited by mana costs in lane for harass, has a skill that lets him reposition, can dish out multiple stuns in a relatively short period of time (seen any AD carry that has a stun except for ashe ult?) and has an ultimate that discourages divers. Fair. Come lategame I don't feel the damage steroids of an AD are the issue, imo its more important how safe they are. Cuz if ur AD gets caught or dies, you're basically screwed. So kennen is pretty strong in that regard. Unless you're the only damage on your team this also isn't true. If you're the only damage then you're not picking Kennen to be your AD carry in the first place. Damage steroids are a HUGE defining factor of AD carries. So much so that I believe some amount of safety can be compromised and left to your support/tanks if you can afford to do so. Did I say kennen is like the best AD ever? Hell no. There IS no best AD. Everything is situational. Vayne shreds tanks, corki/ezreal have great poke, trist has huge range and great AS steroid plus an ult that is really powerful in teamfights. And kennen has great laning phase, ability to dish out multiple stuns and is really safe to divers. Being really safe to diving only really means something if your team has gotten pretty far behind. Bot lane is safe enough due to your support constantly and consistently buying wards to prevent you from something like that, unless the enemy team has TF/Panth in which case your point is fair. Sure kennen is a really good AP. Doesn't mean you shouldn't try out new stuff or that other playstyles are bad. This game by its very nature rewards experimentation and creativity. We're not discouraging experimentation/creativity but there's an incredible vibe from some people that they believe this is a viable strategy, sometimes a go-to one in LoL. It IS, but only in incredibly certain, non-standard situations. If you learn how to play an awesome AD Kennen, more power to you, but it's not going to be the champion to pick over any other AD carry the vast majority of the time. Maybe Kennen will become the next big AD Carry, but certainly not yet. His advantages over other AD carries aren't giving him the edge compared to the other stuff that "traditional" AD Carries bring to the team. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 07 2012 12:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: why do people seem to ignore the fact that any champion with an IE; PD, BT and LW just 4-shots everyone lategame regardless of their personal steroids anyways. Sure maybe vayne will take one less shot to kill stuff but at that point it doesn't matter much. You didn't read. We were talking about who was a better self peeler. Both vayne and tristana can keep themselves alive better than kennen late game. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 07 2012 12:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: You didn't read. We were talking about who was a better self peeler. Both vayne and tristana can keep themselves alive better than kennen late game. This has got to be pure theory by you without actually using real games as an example? Vayne cant peel worth shit, and how is Tristana better at it? She has one jump and one ulti(which doesn't even stun, just a short knockback) and that's it. Kennen can actually stun the chaser multiple times.Including Vayne is just hilarious here because she can't self-peel at all. Saying that she can makes me think that you haven't really played with Vayne a whole lot. | ||
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