EPTtrista ult is also a decent knock back
both of these take a lot of mana though.
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 80
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
trista ult is also a decent knock back both of these take a lot of mana though. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:06 Shikyo wrote: This has got to be pure theory by you without actually using real games as an example? Vayne cant peel worth shit, and how is Tristana better at it? She has one jump and one ulti(which doesn't even stun, just a short knockback) and that's it. Kennen can actually stun the chaser multiple times.Including Vayne is just hilarious here because she can't self-peel at all. Saying that she can makes me think that you haven't really played with Vayne a whole lot. i would agree that vayne isn't the best self peeler but a short dash/invis and a short knock back are not nothing. trist is amazingly safe late game. she has huge range, a knock back that i would not characterize as short at all that can hit multiple people and a jump that it is not unlikely to be able to used 2 or 3 times during a short fight. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:06 Shikyo wrote: This has got to be pure theory by you without actually using real games as an example? Vayne cant peel worth shit, and how is Tristana better at it? She has one jump and one ulti(which doesn't even stun, just a short knockback) and that's it. Kennen can actually stun the chaser multiple times.Including Vayne is just hilarious here because she can't self-peel at all. Saying that she can makes me think that you haven't really played with Vayne a whole lot. Knockback distance is 600-1000 depending on level. Definitely not small. I haven't played vayne a whole lot... but keep attacking the person. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
That's why she's terrible if you get behind. You just die, simple as that. Then again, if you keep up in the game, you can pretty much "peel" by shooting whatever comes at you and utilizing your limited mobility. On March 07 2012 13:25 turdburgler wrote: condemn distance scales on skill lvl? ground breaking news :O o_O Tristanas ult does. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
2) If you're running a comp where only your AD is the damage dealing champion, then your comp is one centred around just protecting said AD. Why are you picking someone who excels at peeling. Pick someone who just has the highest dps like kog or something. 3) being safe from divers in teamfights like being safe from someone like akali, nocturne etc 4) I'm not saying kennen is better than other ADs. In fact, I said at the end of my post that all ADs have their own strengths in various situations. I'm saying the initial argument that AD kennen is just terrible was just wrong. Kennen can be decent pick in a comp where you're going for an early strong game or where your team doesn't have huge amounts of hard cc whereas the other team has stuff like nocturne etc. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
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snow2.0
Germany2073 Posts
Also, she lacks the Ad ratios new ad champs all come with, making her a little awkward. I love trist. strong steroid, super range + jump + ult + flash lategame mobility, jump resetting on kills even. Because of her AP skillset, she has a bad midgame though. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
Edit: @below: fair enough. One of the strongest LATEGAME ADs imo ^_^ | ||
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
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Ryrk
United States82 Posts
On March 07 2012 13:33 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: @ryrk 1) if you think that a full item AD carry doesn't deal enough damage I don't know what to say. 1) Are you kidding me? I didn't mean that at all. Of course a well-geared AD Carry is going to murder most things but unless you've got those items at an ABNORMAL speed, those "4-shot on everything" isn't going to happen except against supports and other squishies. The main idea of tanks is to make you kill the before you can kill everything else, and the idea behind a good AD carry is to either avoid him entirely or to kill him faster than the enemy AD can kill you. Kennen can neither avoid those tanks, nor kill them faster than anyone else can. He's just good at not dying which isn't the primary focus of what an AD carry wants to do. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
Lightning Rush:Cooldown: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds Rocket Jump: Cooldown: 22 / 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 seconds Condemn: Cooldown: 20 / 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 seconds 90 Caliber Net: Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 seconds On March 07 2012 14:04 Ryrk wrote: 1) Are you kidding me? I didn't mean that at all. Of course a well-geared AD Carry is going to murder most things but unless you've got those items at an ABNORMAL speed, those "4-shot on everything" isn't going to happen except against supports and other squishies. The main idea of tanks is to make you kill the before you can kill everything else, and the idea behind a good AD carry is to either avoid him entirely or to kill him faster than the enemy AD can kill you. Kennen can neither avoid those tanks, nor kill them faster than anyone else can. He's just good at not dying which isn't the primary focus of what an AD carry wants to do. Stuns and lightning rush are great for getting past tanks.... | ||
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Ryrk
United States82 Posts
On March 07 2012 14:11 sob3k wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 07 2012 14:04 Ryrk wrote: 1) Are you kidding me? I didn't mean that at all. Of course a well-geared AD Carry is going to murder most things but unless you've got those items at an ABNORMAL speed, those "4-shot on everything" isn't going to happen except against supports and other squishies. The main idea of tanks is to make you kill the before you can kill everything else, and the idea behind a good AD carry is to either avoid him entirely or to kill him faster than the enemy AD can kill you. Kennen can neither avoid those tanks, nor kill them faster than anyone else can. He's just good at not dying which isn't the primary focus of what an AD carry wants to do. Stuns and lightning rush are great for getting past tanks.... That's not exactly what I mean when I say "get past tanks". Champions like Ezreal or Corki can quickly hop over a wall to try and peel the tank while still being able to do some amount of damage using their skills, which are all on a relatively low CD. Kennen's dash is not a blink, and therefore more riskier as well as takes a longer time to reposition himself accordingly. It's better in open fights, but jungle fights around Baron and Dragon happen much more often than fights directly in the middle of the map. And as stated previously, Lightning Rush's biggest drawback is that it's just a movespeed increase, but does provide a decent boost to armor/mr. Nevertheless, it makes him more vulnerable to being permaslowed, and being stunned while inside lightning rush is a lot worse than being stunned after a blink/dash. I'd rather have a blink/dash that's present on pretty much every other AD carry rather than a simple movespeed increase, which is a lot more risky in terms of what you can do with it. Getting caught in lane/open areas is a lot more preventable than getting caught in smaller area, such as the jungle. Also his stun is 1 second...and has diminishing returns. When pretty much every tank is running 21 defense and mercs, do you REALLY think that's going to be a big role in stopping them? | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
Also not dying isn't what ADs should focus on? Wth. On the contrary they NEED to focus on staying safe because a dead AD carry doesn't do any damage. Lategame ADs start melting everything. They may not kill tanks in 4/5 shots like they kill others but seriously, even the best steroids only contribute to like 2/3 less shots for killing a champion. I don't see how that makes kennen worse. He still has his W and his above average base attack speed. And you're flat out ignoring his strengths. Also their tanks are forcing you to focus them while their AD kills you? Either you fucked up your positioning or you're behind since YOUR tank isnt contributing anything in this scenario. Don't see how this translates to kennen being bad. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On March 07 2012 14:30 Ryrk wrote: That's not exactly what I mean when I say "get past tanks". Champions like Ezreal or Corki can quickly hop over a wall to try and peel the tank while still being able to do some amount of damage using their skills, which are all on a relatively low CD. Kennen's dash is not a blink, and therefore more riskier as well as takes a longer time to reposition himself accordingly. It's better in open fights, but jungle fights around Baron and Dragon happen much more often than fights directly in the middle of the map. And as stated previously, Lightning Rush's biggest drawback is that it's just a movespeed increase, but does provide a decent boost to armor/mr. Nevertheless, it makes him more vulnerable to being permaslowed, and being stunned while inside lightning rush is a lot worse than being stunned after a blink/dash. I'd rather have a blink/dash that's present on pretty much every other AD carry rather than a simple movespeed increase, which is a lot more risky in terms of what you can do with it. Getting caught in lane/open areas is a lot more preventable than getting caught in smaller area, such as the jungle. Also his stun is 1 second...and has diminishing returns. When pretty much every tank is running 21 defense and mercs, do you REALLY think that's going to be a big role in stopping them? Except sivir and ashe are perfectly viable without having dashes. And seriously you say kennen is weak because he 'only has a 1 second stun'? Outside of ashe ECA which AD has any form of stun? Much less who can spam if every few seconds. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On March 07 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: Except sivir and ashe are perfectly viable without having dashes. And seriously you say kennen is weak because he 'only has a 1 second stun'? Outside of ashe ECA which AD has any form of stun? Much less who can spam if every few seconds. vayne and cait | ||
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