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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On March 05 2012 19:19 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Dota 2 pros are all morons though... they kill their own guys all the time :p They even kill their own towers sometimes! PS : I hate Rumble even more since I play him... | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On March 05 2012 19:54 mr_tolkien wrote: They even kill their own towers sometimes! PS : I hate Rumble even more since I play him... Did any of the LoL developers actually ever made some statements of why certain mechanics were not ported into LoL? I'm just curious from a design point of view. They obviously wanted to create a different gameplay but apart from that, did they ever got more specific? | ||
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 05 2012 19:54 mr_tolkien wrote: PS : I hate Rumble even more since I play him... haha, why is that? | ||
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NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Netherlands1242 Posts
I'm guessing because he's so fat and therefore last hitting is impossible when you try to do it yourself  | ||
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patochaos
Argentina160 Posts
Basically, like R04R says, they don't put (or try to minimize) mechanics that are anti fun, or you have no control about them, like: - Dodge (too variable, either it doesn't work, or you avoid all damage, and it's kinda random) - Mana burn (either mana burn does nothing, or it burns all your mana and you cant play) etc | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On March 05 2012 20:17 BlueSpace wrote: Did any of the LoL developers actually ever made some statements of why certain mechanics were not ported into LoL? I'm just curious from a design point of view. They obviously wanted to create a different gameplay but apart from that, did they ever got more specific? Don't know RIOT's viewpoint, but I consider it stupid to have to finish off your minions. it makes things too complicated and newcomers will be easily phased out. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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Mios
United States686 Posts
On March 05 2012 21:15 ihasaKAROT wrote: Manaburn in LoL is abit silly since alot of champions are fury/energy/cooldown based and simply have no mana. Are there any heroes in DotA/DotA2 that are like that? Just curious as I haven't played DotA for about 6 years. But I doubt teams would pick a bunch of non-mana heroes just to counter the other teams mana burn. However, I suppose if the mana burner was a solo lane and he depended on mana burn or something then yea, it would be really easy to counter pick in LoL. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
 Btw what ever happend to that riot5 website? | ||
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Craton
United States17295 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 05 2012 21:19 Mios wrote: Are there any heroes in DotA/DotA2 that are like that? Just curious as I haven't played DotA for about 6 years. But I doubt teams would pick a bunch of non-mana heroes just to counter the other teams mana burn. However, I suppose if the mana burner was a solo lane and he depended on mana burn or something then yea, it would be really easy to counter pick in LoL. Well Huskar uses HP for everything but his heal which is his only skill that costs mana. Obsidian Destroyer has infinite mana and it's always at 100% so mana burn doesn't do anything apart from damage vs him. That's about it, I think. (So mana burn damages everyone but is not that useful vs some) | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317811 I just thought I'd put a link here. Not that I particularly care, but someone else might. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On March 05 2012 20:17 BlueSpace wrote: Did any of the LoL developers actually ever made some statements of why certain mechanics were not ported into LoL? I'm just curious from a design point of view. They obviously wanted to create a different gameplay but apart from that, did they ever got more specific? LoL uses fundamentally different design philosophies compared to DotA. I've talked about Zileas' Rules of Game Design before, which is one of the major philosophies the Riot Team uses. One important thing that the design team really emphasised was "Don't put in arbitrary mechanics just because you can." This in particular is why denying isn't in LoL. Denying was a by product of the WC3 engine. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should put it in. Denying is counter-intuitive, and the team felt it wasn't a fun mechanic. Sure, you can create depth from lane interactions, etc. However, it feels like an arbitrary wall you put in just to create complexity. It's like playing Tennis with lead shoes and super bouncy balls. Sure, the game is now more "complex and deep". But what have you sacrificed to do so? Another thing with LoL is that it is designed to cater to a wider audience than DotA was. Sure, you have to simplify things. Does that matter though? Sure, part of your target audience will be very bad. Again, is that necessarily a bad thing though? Good games don't have to be a massive complex web of interactions that only the absolute experts understand. Games just have to be as complex as they need to be to create meaningful interactions between players. If you can create meaningful interactions through arbitrary mechanical complexity or simple but subtle processes, it's generally preferable to keep it simple. Now that doesn't mean you can't have really complex and mechanically difficult tasks in games, far from it. But if it doesn't suit your purpose, then don't do it. For instance, LoL has the brush mechanics, as well as Summoner Spells. Both are simple concepts that change the dynamic of the laning phase that introduce complexity and interaction in their own way. In the same manner, the Agi/Str/Int system of DotA was simplified into AP and AD. Again, they changed mechanics where they felt it wasn't necessary to keep them. Does this make LoL a bad game for dumbing it down, or DotA a bad game for having silly arbitrary mechanics that were a by-product of the WC3 engine? No. They're different games that have decided to focus on different aspects and need to be treated as such. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
There are other things as well. Mana burn, for example, doesnt work in lol because it disproportianatly hurts the people you DONT actually want to mana burn. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On March 05 2012 22:18 spinesheath wrote: Fruitdealer to coach LoL team http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=317811 I just thought I'd put a link here. Not that I particularly care, but someone else might. Translated interview for those interested. | ||
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BlueSpace
Germany2182 Posts
On March 05 2012 22:38 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: LoL uses fundamentally different design philosophies compared to DotA. I've talked about Zileas' Rules of Game Design before, which is one of the major philosophies the Riot Team uses. One important thing that the design team really emphasised was "Don't put in arbitrary mechanics just because you can." This in particular is why denying isn't in LoL. Denying was a by product of the WC3 engine. However, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should put it in. Denying is counter-intuitive, and the team felt it wasn't a fun mechanic. Sure, you can create depth from lane interactions, etc. However, it feels like an arbitrary wall you put in just to create complexity. It's like playing Tennis with lead shoes and super bouncy balls. Sure, the game is now more "complex and deep". But what have you sacrificed to do so? Another thing with LoL is that it is designed to cater to a wider audience than DotA was. Sure, you have to simplify things. Does that matter though? Sure, part of your target audience will be very bad. Again, is that necessarily a bad thing though? Good games don't have to be a massive complex web of interactions that only the absolute experts understand. Games just have to be as complex as they need to be to create meaningful interactions between players. If you can create meaningful interactions through arbitrary mechanical complexity or simple but subtle processes, it's generally preferable to keep it simple. Now that doesn't mean you can't have really complex and mechanically difficult tasks in games, far from it. But if it doesn't suit your purpose, then don't do it. For instance, LoL has the brush mechanics, as well as Summoner Spells. Both are simple concepts that change the dynamic of the laning phase that introduce complexity and interaction in their own way. In the same manner, the Agi/Str/Int system of DotA was simplified into AP and AD. Again, they changed mechanics where they felt it wasn't necessary to keep them. Does this make LoL a bad game for dumbing it down, or DotA a bad game for having silly arbitrary mechanics that were a by-product of the WC3 engine? No. They're different games that have decided to focus on different aspects and need to be treated as such. I read through that massive wall of text, you cleverly hid behind that link  Thx that was actually interesting. I think I can see it for some mechanics although I must say I don't really see it for all of them. Anyways I was already a bit tense to ask the question because many people seem to have strong opinions on the topic. So I won't go into questions about specific mechanics.On a related note about that design mechanics principle. How do these various fb games fit in? I mean I think they are horrible but they seem to be really successful and people play them. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On March 05 2012 23:18 BlueSpace wrote: I read through that massive wall of text, you cleverly hid behind that link Thx that was actually interesting. I think I can see it for some mechanics although I must say I don't really see it for all of them. Anyways I was already a bit tense to ask the question because many people seem to have strong opinions on the topic. So I won't go into questions about specific mechanics.On a related note about that design mechanics principle. How do these various fb games fit in? I mean I think they are horrible but they seem to be really successful and people play them. not everyone, in fact the probably the majority of people, aren't serious gamers. Something where you can put 5-10 minutes in and feel like you get something out of it is satisfying for people who either don't know of any more in depth forms of gaming, or don't have the time or interest to pursue anything else. It's also probably why iOS games, like angry birds, are becoming increasingly popular as well. | ||
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Zhiroo
Kosovo2724 Posts
On March 05 2012 23:18 Two_DoWn wrote: Does any subset of teamliquid besides ours NOT hate lol? Seriously that thread is beyond retarded. TL LoL community the best TL community  | ||
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