EPT[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 61
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
What do you all think? | ||
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
Make your hotkeys do what YOU want them to do, no one should tell you otherwise. Some people are comfortable assigning qwer as smartcast for some champs, but I myself always smartcast using shift and never reassign regardless of champ. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 05 2012 13:51 billy5000 wrote: can anyone explain some general tactics @ top lane? i see people trying to win their lane early if they have a stronger early game, thus pushing their lane slightly, but i was always wary of the fact that it makes you vulnerable to ganks. more precisely, how should you control your lane if you have the advantage early on but falls off lvl 9ish (ie rumble vs irelia)? also, who are some good top laners who can't be countered so easily. i tried gp for the first time today, but i had no idea that fiora countered him, let alone what fiora's kit consisted of as it was my first time against one. as of now i only have irelia as my main, but i'd like to add 2 more top laners as my mains. more precisely, if the other team picks irelia, who should i counter her with? i honestly had never had any problems against anyone as i generally play safe early You don't want to push all the time top, just early so you can get an advantage. Obviously pushing bad because it makes you more vulnerable, but it also makes you have level/skill advanatges as well as makes it much easier for you to trade because you just flat out have less creeps to aggro when you trade. So level one, you get a creep advantage it makes it much easier for you to zone your opponent and fight them in general because as it turns out Minions do a lot of damage. So long as I am playing a champion that wins early trades (riven, Shy, Monkey, Jarvan, Panth etc) I try to stand in the middle of the creep wave and push early and gain an advantage (level/Skill/Item) then reset the lane by pushing hard. Next wave that comes stop the enemy creep wave before it hits your creep wave like normally so that they get in a concave and they will just auto push the lane because all your creeps will die one by one to the pre-lined up enemy wave. From there you can just zone and control the wave from right in from of your tower... or exactly where you want to be anyway. ^_^ If you can get your support to ward for you early there is little to no risk. Other little tricks you can do is just quickly grab creep aggro by auto attacking then dashing out behind your creeps; the enemy creeps will follow you and suddenly the gap between you and the tower isn't as great. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On March 05 2012 14:14 upperbound wrote: Is it ever defensible mechanics-wise to set a plain key to self-cast and then reset shift-key to smartcast? One example of a spell that I've been toying around with this on is Morgana's E. Often times I'll try to E to absorb CC (i.e., Annie Q or Veigar Combo), particularly when I want to harass with Q/W. However, because Shift-E is a little bit finnicky for me, I'll often end up just registering E, or it will just be too late and I'll be stunned and bursted out of lane. Obviously, the downside of setting the selfcast as the default is that it's more difficult to save allies, but I find that the amount of times that immediate shielding will save my allies from eventually dying during/after team fights is way lower than the opportunities that I have to save myself using a quick E to dodge a key CC. What do you all think? alt+QWER is self-cast by default #+QWER targets your teammates by default in the order of the portraits on the left hand side. i personally think smartcasting is better than regular casting so I bind QWER to smart-cast, althoi change it back to manual cast for certain spells, usually ultimates. | ||
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R04R
United States1631 Posts
On March 05 2012 14:27 iCanada wrote: Next lane that comes stop the enemy creep wave before it hits your creep wave like normally so that they get in a concave and they will just auto push the lane because all your creeps will die one by one to the pre-lined up enemy wave. From there you can just zone and control the wave from right in from of your tower... or exactly where you want to be anyway. ^_^ If you can get your support to ward for you early there is little to no risk. :o never knew about that trick. You'd have to aggro his creeps pretty much at his tower to do this right though? Or can you do it like 500 range before the minions collide in the middle? | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On March 05 2012 14:34 R04R wrote: :o never knew about that trick. You'd have to aggro his creeps pretty much at his tower to do this right though? Or can you do it like 500 range before the minions collide in the middle? You can get away with doing it just right at about the half lane. At top/bot you can do it starting from their lanebrush rather easily. About 500 range sounds about right. I could take a screenshot but I too lazy right now. You should try it out in a custom game.  The other nice thing about that trick is that it is much much harder for the enemy to last hit when all his creeps focus fire as opposed to all hitting randomly. It is significantly harder than normal, things die much faster. Only real hinge is that you need to tank the creep waves, so a decent amount of armor and/or creep masteries kind of important. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On March 05 2012 13:51 billy5000 wrote: can anyone explain some general tactics @ top lane? i see people trying to win their lane early if they have a stronger early game, thus pushing their lane slightly, but i was always wary of the fact that it makes you vulnerable to ganks. more precisely, how should you control your lane if you have the advantage early on but falls off lvl 9ish (ie rumble vs irelia)? also, who are some good top laners who can't be countered so easily. i tried gp for the first time today, but i had no idea that fiora countered him, let alone what fiora's kit consisted of as it was my first time against one. as of now i only have irelia as my main, but i'd like to add 2 more top laners as my mains. more precisely, if the other team picks irelia, who should i counter her with? i honestly had never had any problems against anyone as i generally play safe early One of these days we'll have project role completed and there will be whole threads for this. My advice, Watch Mogwai or someone else good at top lane and try to learn what they do. Also, matchups are discussed in detail in most champ threads | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On March 05 2012 14:30 Ryuu314 wrote: alt+QWER is self-cast by default #+QWER targets your teammates by default in the order of the portraits on the left hand side. i personally think smartcasting is better than regular casting so I bind QWER to smart-cast, althoi change it back to manual cast for certain spells, usually ultimates. Sorry, I meant alt -- not sure why I said shift. I default to smartcast generally -- I was just wondering if selfcast was worth it on some particular spells. The above quote allayed some of my concerns, though. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
I'm too lazy to change my set-up everygame depending on the champion I play so I have QWER as normal casts. ASDF as corresponding smartcast. Z and X as smartcast summoners. C as selfcast-W, V as selfcast-E and space as selfcast-R. G and B as pings. Its complicated but this can work for all champions conveniently without being forced to change for any particular champion if you get used to it. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 05 2012 14:39 iCanada wrote: You can get away with doing it just right at about the half lane. At top/bot you can do it starting from their lanebrush rather easily. About 500 range sounds about right. I could take a screenshot but I too lazy right now. You should try it out in a custom game. The other nice thing about that trick is that it is much much harder for the enemy to last hit when all his creeps focus fire as opposed to all hitting randomly. It is significantly harder than normal, things die much faster. Only real hinge is that you need to tank the creep waves, so a decent amount of armor and/or creep masteries kind of important. That's actually so cool! ^_^ From my newb eyes so many things are still viable. Like I don't think ryze's half mana half AP scaling is what makes him so strong. I think he's strong because people have an excuse to build a caster more tanky. The base damage on his Q is shit even though he can use it rapidly twice in succession and then a third time soon after that. The scaling is 8% and 5% of mana which is even in gold cost to a .8 AP ratio on another caster. Forgot what else I wanted to ask. Oh right... does a team really NEED a tank? I often get games with no tank. No one wants to tank D: The tank is the clear initiator. The only guy who can go in and not get blown up. Well Morgana can initiate, but that's because no one's focusing her when they're trying to get out of stun range. But I was watching Epik play today with teams like support janna, salce's AP kog mid, janna ezrael bot, kennen top, and lee sin jungling. Lee sin was the only semi tanky guy but even then he didn't seem necessary. Why do teams need a tank? On topic: I don't smartcast morgana's shield. When you smartcast it and miss, the shield goes on yourself. It's far easier to aim when you aren't smartcasting. | ||
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anmolsinghmzn2009
India1783 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:14 Craton wrote: I'd say the one thing I've never found useful is self+smartcast. Basically if you misclick it you waste the CD on yourself. Not sure why you'd ever want that. Well I've never accidentally hit any of my selfcast-x keys. But they've saved my ass plenty of times in those 'Oh Shit' situations when I need my kayle ult or nid heal on myself. Edit: Oh. You mean self-SMARTcast. Yeah that one sucks. And I suck at reading comprehension. :/ | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:14 Craton wrote: I'd say the one thing I've never found useful is self+smartcast. Basically if you misclick it you waste the CD on yourself. Not sure why you'd ever want that. turned it on for one game killed myself as lee sin fuck that | ||
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Dgiese
United States2687 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:16 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: That's actually so cool! ^_^ From my newb eyes so many things are still viable. Like I don't think ryze's half mana half AP scaling is what makes him so strong. I think he's strong because people have an excuse to build a caster more tanky. The base damage on his Q is shit even though he can use it rapidly twice in succession and then a third time soon after that. The scaling is 8% and 5% of mana which is even in gold cost to a .8 AP ratio on another caster. Forgot what else I wanted to ask. Oh right... does a team really NEED a tank? I often get games with no tank. No one wants to tank D: The tank is the clear initiator. The only guy who can go in and not get blown up. Well Morgana can initiate, but that's because no one's focusing her when they're trying to get out of stun range. But I was watching Epik play today with teams like support janna, salce's AP kog mid, janna ezrael bot, kennen top, and lee sin jungling. Lee sin was the only semi tanky guy but even then he didn't seem necessary. Why do teams need a tank? On topic: I don't smartcast morgana's shield. When you smartcast it and miss, the shield goes on yourself. It's far easier to aim when you aren't smartcasting. The need for a tank depends on specific teamcomp vs teamcomp. And in general the team 'tank' is useless. There have been several incarnations of the discussion on these forums, one of the key points is that the term 'tank' needs to be broken down in to smaller categories (I.e. Bruiser, initiator, etc etc). Is there a need for a tank (or other such role?), not inherently, but it makes a lot of situations 'easier'. It's like having a ranged AD carry, you don't need one, but if you don't have one and you're playing against player of comparable skill, you sure as hell better have a plan for taking towers and late game teamfights. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
Deal enough damage to the other team to kill them before they deal enough damage to kill you. Based on that you can see how having a character that can absorb damage and lower enemy damage output is extremely useful. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:50 Terranasaur wrote: Based on that you can see how having a character that can absorb damage and lower enemy damage output is extremely useful. But that only works if the enemy team focuses the tank or he's disruptive. Guess it'd work if the enemy were afraid of moving forward to focus a squishier target. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On March 05 2012 15:59 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: But that only works if the enemy team focuses the tank or he's disruptive. Guess it'd work if the enemy were afraid of moving forward to focus a squishier target. that's why all the good tanks in lol are disruptive... there's no tank that just tanks damage and doesn't CC or anything lol | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
On March 05 2012 16:00 gtrsrs wrote: that's why all the good tanks in lol are disruptive... there's no tank that just tanks damage and doesn't CC or anything lol Exactly. At the very least a tank calls damage onto himself (Rammus, Shen) or stuns/roots/slows/fears/silences you or something so you cant put out at much damage. | ||
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dooraven
Australia2820 Posts
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