On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
On March 02 2012 18:44 gtrsrs wrote: fiora is just bad, her kit is wonky and she doesn't really have a place in the game there are so many ways to beat her if you don't want to pick a champ that's strong against her, just run an armor page and cloth + 5. just farm, don't attack her -> you now negate one of her skills. push wave to her tower -> she has no farming skill. take any champ with cc -> she's useless in teamfights
played her a few more times, and even doing well it was just like "who cares" i won a lane pretty convincingly and then proceeded to do jackshit the rest of the game except get some ult kills and some cleanup kills
I think fiora is pretty good. She doesnt work well vs every champ in a solo lane ofc but bottom lane she flows well with her skillset and a fitting support. I think she has enough burst and mobility to be played as an assassin and enough sustained damage for a bruiser. Prolly not the most overall solid champ ever but can snowball really hard from a strong laneing phase and early-mid skirmishes. Her ult can be used to counter stuff like wukongs ult, towerhits or anything you want to dodge for the duration (which is pretty long). In a teamcomp where the rest of your team has more hardcc than the other she will flow very well just like akali, (yi), riven and trynd do.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
Big thanks to everyone who gave me jungling advice in the Nautilus thread a few days ago. It was mostly just confirming what I already thought I should be doing, but I've been focusing a lot more on farming in ranked games and just ignoring calls for ganks for the most part and I've gone up ~150 elo by doing so. Playing a much bigger role in late game on my own so it's not just a matter of ganking a lot and hoping all the lanes win.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
Ok thx for the clarification. My elo isn't super high, so I'll trust you on that part. In case I get up there and I can still pull it off, I will argue again
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
Ok thx for the clarification. My elo isn't super high, so I'll trust you on that part. In case I get up there and I can still pull it off, I will argue again
Well, he works in high elo solo q too because, more often than not, people are really really dumb in high elo too. Its just a matter of once you start to see tourney play where you cant afford to be stupid that it really becomes apparent what his shortcomings are, and you will get solo q games where you are completely shut down by a smart enemy team (cassiopia, for example, is the bane of skarners existance).
I've lately been getting Oracle's every time I'm the jungler and our team is winning. It makes such a huge difference and not only gives us map control but gives my team a good idea of just how much the enemy knows about our positions.
Great for baiting dragon and baron, as well as for increasing the chances of a gank succeeding.
I feel it makes a lot of my games just snowball out of control in our team's favor. So good.
On March 03 2012 00:26 Kyo Yuy wrote: I've lately been getting Oracle's every time I'm the jungler and our team is winning. It makes such a huge difference and not only gives us map control but gives my team a good idea of just how much the enemy knows about our positions.
Great for baiting dragon and baron, as well as for increasing the chances of a gank succeeding.
I feel it makes a lot of my games just snowball out of control in our team's favor. So good.
IMO its just as risky, if not riskier than a Mejaj or Soto. If you can hold onto it it makes a HUGE difference, but if you die you are REALLY behind. Personally I dont do it because I tend to play in such a way where I do my best to force the enemy team to kill me, but if you are playing safer in and around teamfights it can be a great buy.
I certainly would not recomend it on any new junglers, and I personally do not like the way you have to change your playstyle, but it is certainly rewarding if it works out.
BTW you can always tell I'm at work cuz my posting volume goes throught the roof lol.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
well it depends kinda what you pick him for? I allways felt that lee sin for example, is very strong at protecting carries from bruisers instead of bruising himself in a lategame situation. Skarner has the kit to do the same thing with his ult and perma slow. In a teamcomp where you for example want to protect a kogmaw from a strong initiator so he can poke more aggressively. skarners raw power is undeniable and he scales superb with just utility and tank items which is a plus IMO. His ult is kinda awkward as an initiation tool but strong as a follow up or just to save somebody. QSS is a strong counter but that also can be said for ww who has a harder time to clear and doesnt get as many assists in teamfights due to lack of aoe. might be that he has some comps where he fits better than other junglers.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
well it depends kinda what you pick him for? I allways felt that lee sin for example, is very strong at protecting carries from bruisers instead of bruising himself in a lategame situation. Skarner has the kit to do the same thing with his ult and perma slow. In a teamcomp where you for example want to protect a kogmaw from a strong initiator so he can poke more aggressively. skarners raw power is undeniable and he scales superb with just utility and tank items which is a plus IMO. His ult is kinda awkward as an initiation tool but strong as a follow up or just to save somebody. QSS is a strong counter but that also can be said for ww who has a harder time to clear and doesnt get as many assists in teamfights due to lack of aoe.
You can do that, but then you kind of lose a big chunk of skarner's power, which is the ability to catch someone out of position and lock them down. And if you want a peeler, why not just grab Ali or Mao, who ARE able to gank all game long and do just as good a job peeling.
I think Skar is good pick vs characters like akali, kass, and talon. But then again, so is WW. And I am FULLY prepared to admit I am highly biased towards ww because I think he brings more to a team because of his damage and steroid.
On March 02 2012 16:36 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: So to any shen players, does the energy cost increase hurt him much?
Also how does Skarner's mana cost increase on q affect him in the jungle? Do you feel comfortable with your mana after getting the philo?
You feel how dumb the Q mana nerf was really hard around level 5 and definitely by level 7. There's definitely a lot of times where you have to decide to either kill a camp (usually red) quickly and blow most or all of your mana on Q's (and therefore have to back) or if you want to chug hp pots instead to have enough mana for a gank. If you rush a Shurelya's then it's not so bad, but Shurelya rush is only good if you can catch something with it. You're pretty soft in teamfights when that's all you have.
Why is that a bad thing? Last I checked, mana was SUPPOSED to be a limiting factor on characters, especially junglers. Can you imagine if Olaf Q didnt use mana? Or if Maokai could just spam shit all day long? Or if Udyr didnt need ANY blue buffs?
Essentially, you are raging against a change that took a character who was completely and utterly broken in that sence and put him back in line with the rest of the champions in the game. Its like getting pissed off when they nerfed leblanc cuz she could 1 shot people from level 3 on because "now I actually have to try when I play her."
I mean, I know you love skarner, but whats the point of having mana costs if you arent actually going to be LIMITED by them.
You were limited before by them but not to the same extent as you are now. Skarner was very strong and deserved to be nerfed but they could have done something else, that didn't include touching his mana costs. My feeling is that he is still a bit too strong and they will probably nerf him again and break him in the process. His ganks are as dangerous as ever and right now jungeling has become a bit more tedious and you are overall a bit slower. He is weaker but not that much, but he feels a lot more clunkier to me.
Skarner wasnt limited before in mana at all before the change. He NEVER ran low unless you started to spam e for some reason.
And honestly I think skarner is HIGHLY overrated. He is decent in solo q, but not as good as Ram or Shaco if you want a ganker, and Shyv and Udyr both bring more to the table as powerclearers. The only thing he has atm is his ult, but even that doesnt put him above rebuffed WW IMO. Plus he is one of the easiest junglers in the game to completely shut out of a game, which is why you never see him win in tournaments.
I wouldn't say never and I had situation pre-nerf were I stopped using w when clearing due to mana concerns. You could spam q endlessly though. That doesn't really relate to my point though as I don't like the way they changed him, not the fact that they changed him.
I don't think he is overrated and his ganks are extremely brutal past 6 and already quite good before that. He is of course much stronger in Solo Q because it is so easy to catch people late game out of position with his ult. I think he is underplayed in tournaments but not really bad. Didn't check the numbers though, maybe you're right and he sucks at tournament level.
You will have to elaborate on the shutting out part. I usually have no problems with counter junglers. w is a quite good escape tool. His utility is quite high in tf as you have an AOE slow on short cooldown for peeling, a move speed increase to get in and out of trouble and a surpression ult. So all in all I'm a fan. I must admit though, that I haven't jungled WW since the buff... so maybe I should give that a try and then Skarner and me will part ways for a while
He was actually a very common tourney pick for a while, but his win rate was abombinable. Like really bad.
The reason he is bad in arranged play gets back to getting shut out easily. Skar relies on the enemy team being bad. This happens less and less the better the competition. Proper warding basically shuts him down at all phases of the game. Now, that is true for a lot of jungles. The difference gets to be what happens AFTER that. Skar is capable of going into afk farm mode, but then what? He still needs someone to be out of positon in fights to hit his ult without getting blown up, and a smart team will just kite the shit out of skar and blow him up before he can really even do anything. His innate tank is decent, but it isnt Shyvana/Udyr level.
I dont think he is a bad solo q/low elo champion when you can rely on your enemies being bad. I just think he is incredibly overrated because everything he does can be done better by other champions.
well it depends kinda what you pick him for? I allways felt that lee sin for example, is very strong at protecting carries from bruisers instead of bruising himself in a lategame situation. Skarner has the kit to do the same thing with his ult and perma slow. In a teamcomp where you for example want to protect a kogmaw from a strong initiator so he can poke more aggressively. skarners raw power is undeniable and he scales superb with just utility and tank items which is a plus IMO. His ult is kinda awkward as an initiation tool but strong as a follow up or just to save somebody. QSS is a strong counter but that also can be said for ww who has a harder time to clear and doesnt get as many assists in teamfights due to lack of aoe.
You can do that, but then you kind of lose a big chunk of skarner's power, which is the ability to catch someone out of position and lock them down. And if you want a peeler, why not just grab Ali or Mao, who ARE able to gank all game long and do just as good a job peeling.
I think Skar is good pick vs characters like akali, kass, and talon. But then again, so is WW. And I am FULLY prepared to admit I am highly biased towards ww because I think he brings more to a team because of his damage and steroid.
I agree that ww scales very well but his lack of aoe damage kinda makes him snowballish IMO. Often he has assists or kills while champions with aoe have rather both or generally more assists. WW is much stronger against those champions imo because his ult makes him more mobile in engagements. Like the range of his ult covers a certain area and those assassins are really fucking fast.
EPT
