EPTYorick shits on 99% of top lanes because of his sustain?
Better nerf Irelias sustain and every bruiser who buys wriggles.
Btw is wriggles now like the most frequently nerfed item in lol?
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 197
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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
Yorick shits on 99% of top lanes because of his sustain? Better nerf Irelias sustain and every bruiser who buys wriggles. Btw is wriggles now like the most frequently nerfed item in lol? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On March 17 2012 15:13 warscythes wrote: Hm? Isn't Irelia one of the safest solo top pick in the game right now other than Lee and Udyr? She's "safe" in that if she plays carefully and gets some of her core items without falling behind too much then she becomes a strong asset that is generally useful in most circumstances. But even in the lanes that she is said to win in she has a noticeably weak early game. | ||
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Tarz
Canada106 Posts
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BigMcLargeHuge
United States8 Posts
On March 17 2012 15:07 Shikyo wrote: Not sure if trolling... Before you could just buy a negatron and a chainmail and you basically had the same effect, only permanently, while 1500g cant bring you even close to those dmg numbers. You are still going to need to build jax tanky, except now he will never deal dmg instead of just during his ulti. Ok I'm on break but I got enough time to reply to this. My build for Jax on DW is Wriggle/mercs/trinity/rageblade generally get that while I'm using a rank 2 ult. That gives me 23+30+35+AD @ level 11 that's: 61.4AR And for MR you got 30+45+(0-48) which is: 35+(15 to 24.6) gives you 50 to 59.6MR Late game when you add on a gunblade, elixirs, and the level 16 version of the ult and you're talking well over 100AR/MR. So yeah at level 6 maybe you can compare that to 1500g. But midgame and up? Not so much. And real issue is the dead zone with that builds you're seeing on live especially Atmog builds. Where you got HP and you're going for that Atmas. Or you don't have tankyness but you got dmg. There isn't a good set of equipment that doesn't leave his mid game feeling a weak relative to his old play. You hit critical mass much earlier with the new interation and you stay there. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
They're pretty much halving it at all levels. 13 HPs at level 5 W? lolwut Looks like I'm only playing Kennen top now. Should try out solo top Trundle more now I think. | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
or maybe stack Dorans shields? ugh at the thought. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 17 2012 16:14 Tarz wrote: Can anyone tell me if the nerf on vampiric scepter big enough to affect some junglers? I know I get low on some junglers... Nope. It was almost definitely aimed at solo top and AD carries. Shouldn't really effect junglers too much except they may be lower HP when they go to gank. It seems like it was most focused on the ridiculous sustain that so many top laners get from vamp/wriggle's and the sustain that AD carries get in lane from either of those items as well. They buffed BT to make up for it though and I think AD carries, top laners, and junglers who got vamp/wriggle's before will all still get it. 2% less lifesteal isn't that huge of a deal. I think the only real change is that some solo tops and some AD carries will get BT much more often now. | ||
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GreenManalishi
Canada834 Posts
On March 17 2012 16:14 BigMcLargeHuge wrote: Ok I'm on break but I got enough time to reply to this. My build for Jax on DW is Wriggle/mercs/trinity/rageblade generally get that while I'm using a rank 2 ult. That gives me 23+30+35+AD @ level 11 that's: 61.4AR And for MR you got 30+45+(0-48) which is: 35+(15 to 24.6) gives you 50 to 59.6MR Late game when you add on a gunblade, elixirs, and the level 16 version of the ult and you're talking well over 100AR/MR. So yeah at level 6 maybe you can compare that to 1500g. But midgame and up? Not so much. And real issue is the dead zone with that builds you're seeing on live especially Atmog builds. Where you got HP and you're going for that Atmas. Or you don't have tankyness but you got dmg. There isn't a good set of equipment that doesn't leave his mid game feeling a weak relative to his old play. You hit critical mass much earlier with the new interation and you stay there. On what planet is it possible to have 9k+ gold before level 15. Is this against bots or something? And to comment on your 6 item build. Sure 100/100 armour/MR is worth more then 1500g, but that is ignoring the scaling on Jax's current ultimate. Jax's current ultimate scales way better then the new one. You can build only 1 or 2 damage items, and your ultimate is going to be worth way more then the new one. 30% of AD to armour compared to 20% of AD to AD. Armour is worth less than 1/2 or what AD is, so essentially you nerfed the scaling by 100%. The AP/MR scaling is better, but Jax's AP scaling is complete shit now that there is no ratio on his E. So Jax currently, building only 1 or 2 offensive items (Trinity/Atmas/Wriggles) and building everything else purely defensive, will be tougher, do more damage, and not die the second his ultimate ends. And current Jax is extremely weak! The math just doesn't support your experiences. Coming in here talking about ridiculous builds on a very weak laning champion doesn't support you either. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 17 2012 16:41 GreenManalishi wrote: On what planet is it possible to have 9k+ gold before level 15. Is this against bots or something? And to comment on your 6 item build. Sure 100/100 armour/MR is worth more then 1500g, but that is ignoring the scaling on Jax's current ultimate. Jax's current ultimate scales way better then the new one. You can build only 1 or 2 damage items, and your ultimate is going to be worth way more then the new one. 30% of AD to armour compared to 20% of AD to AD. Armour is worth less than 1/2 or what AD is, so essentially you nerfed the scaling by 100%. The AP/MR scaling is better, but Jax's AP scaling is complete shit now that there is no ratio on his E. So Jax currently, building only 1 or 2 offensive items (Trinity/Atmas/Wriggles) and building everything else purely defensive, will be tougher, do more damage, and not die the second his ultimate ends. And current Jax is extremely weak! The math just doesn't support your experiences. Coming in here talking about ridiculous builds on a very weak laning champion doesn't support you either. His ap scaling is pretty good actually. I agree that the jax assessment doesn't really seem to line up but we shouldn't discourage mr. huge from 'coming in here talking' about things. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
Like you don't have to accuse him of trolling or make snide remarks as your opening line to make your point. Disagree with him respectfully and you might not only change his opinion but he might encourage more Rioters/testers to discuss things with us. Just my two cents. | ||
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GreenManalishi
Canada834 Posts
On March 17 2012 16:56 overt wrote: Seriously, someone from Riot who actually tests champs and stuff comes in to share his opinion and people basically talk down to him. You guys might be right and he might be wrong but you're coming across kind of...dickish? Like you don't have to accuse him of trolling or make snide remarks as your opening line to make your point. Disagree with him respectfully and you might not only change his opinion but he might encourage more Rioters/testers to discuss things with us. Just my two cents. Eh, I am a bit irritated. Jax is my favorite champion, and I've been playing him for over 2 years. After losing pretty much all of his character in the last 'remake' I'm just losing my patience. Apologies for any insult. I definitely could have been more polite in my response. | ||
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BigMcLargeHuge
United States8 Posts
And you are correct we have a lot more gold floating around then most games on live. And our games are purposely varied in skill level to get a wider sampling of feedback. There has been about umteen different versions working with wards so ganks have been a lot different. So that has ment there are some weak links to pick on. Our matches are generally very bloody and on top of all that we are testing normalization mechanics including tower changes that make it a lot easier for me to kill people. Not to mention gold for sprees and XP gains just all kinds of experiments messing with risk/reward for heavy aggression. Tbh DW is a field day for me. Cause I hate passive farming and most of our builds recently have involved some test or another with increasing the incentive to play aggressively. But seriously here.. back to the QQ the ult's worse. It's really not.. The longer Jax lives the more benefit you're getting from your passive. And if you're stopping you're atk item build to pickup survival equipment you're slowing that down. This version you get the atk items and you stick with them. I basically don't have a reason to get AR or MR beyond mercs and wriggles. You are likely correct about the GP values.. I'm not one of the feedback monkeys that focus on the item cost analysis crazyness. I'm one of the testers that focus on making sure gameplay feels rewarding, interesting, and all those other big experience words designers like to toss around. Give him a chance. Believe me I tossed a huge hissy when they released that youtube hyping up the Jax rework and I knew then we were getting the current iteration put on live. It's better and it's likely the best we are going to get. Anymore would take engineer times and that probably isn't happening. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
Either a full redesign of the item or making the active some sort of mini-cv (lantern drops out of the sky on targeted area, revealing all visible units for xx seconds, lantern is visible for enemy units but indestructible) would be needed in order for other items to be viable as first item (phage/zeke's/cutlass/brutalizer). All those items have around the same gold costs (Zeke's has a wee bit more), but I would love it if every champion without innate sustain wasn't forced into buying fucking Wriggle's every damn game. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
Way more intense than ARAM. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
at the end of s1, riot promised a special place on the website for "true plat" or hipster plat players (2200 elo s1?). did that ever happen? if so, can you link me? | ||
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BigMcLargeHuge
United States8 Posts
On March 17 2012 17:25 Doctorbeat wrote: Tbh they should just do away with the active of Wriggle's. The free ward is what makes it worth so much, not a difference of 2% in Life steal. Either a full redesign of the item or making the active some sort of mini-cv (lantern drops out of the sky on targeted area, revealing all visible units for xx seconds, lantern is visible for enemy units but indestructible) would be needed in order for other items to be viable as first item (phage/zeke's/cutlass/brutalizer). All those items have around the same gold costs (Zeke's has a wee bit more), but I would love it if every champion without innate sustain wasn't forced into buying fucking Wriggle's every damn game. Wriggles in particular is kind of the perfect storm of item. It goes on AD champs which are normally fighting other AD champs, and trying to survive mostly AD junglers ganking as well. Armor/AD/sustain perfect storm right there. The vamp nerfs were from my understanding less in mind for wriggles and more for vamp in general--to put a higher premium on good vamp. I deviate from the live teams perspective though. I'd much rather have good sustain options and at the same time make ganks a lot easier and pushing up your lane more rewarding for the risk. I think we see passive farming too much. But what I want would be punishing for your casual player base and Riot actually cares about them. I know right? Caring about 90% of your customers. Terrible I know. | ||
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rob.au
1087 Posts
On March 17 2012 17:25 Doctorbeat wrote: Tbh they should just do away with the active of Wriggle's. The free ward is what makes it worth so much, not a difference of 2% in Life steal. Either a full redesign of the item or making the active some sort of mini-cv (lantern drops out of the sky on targeted area, revealing all visible units for xx seconds, lantern is visible for enemy units but indestructible) would be needed in order for other items to be viable as first item (phage/zeke's/cutlass/brutalizer). All those items have around the same gold costs (Zeke's has a wee bit more), but I would love it if every champion without innate sustain wasn't forced into buying fucking Wriggle's every damn game. Personally I think it just occured to Morello that lifesteal is an extremely cheap stat, where as in reality it should probably be pretty expensive. It may have come abou because they wanted melee's to have some actual damage items that are viable for them, at the moment you see either very limited item choice, or like they say in the patch preview you go for bloodthirster just because it's so good even though getting it on a melee feels kind of awkward, because you know there's a high probability you will die and lose all the stacks. If they were to keep lifesteal values so high they might forsee some melees going out of control when they made the items better for them. Obviously this is just speculation, but I don't think they necesssarily think wriggles is that OP, it's just one of those 'quality of life' changes where nearly everything with lifesteal gets hit. | ||
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
Imo though Riot is reading what the forums are saying. Perhaps someone said lifesteal was too strong. I know we said hexdrinker needed to build into something to be viable. Also: better nerf irelia. | ||
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GranDim
Canada1214 Posts
On March 17 2012 17:54 gtrsrs wrote: yo, random unrelated question but something i thought of at the end of s1, riot promised a special place on the website for "true plat" or hipster plat players (2200 elo s1?). did that ever happen? if so, can you link me? On a related note. I am wondering what happened to the icons promised in this thread(http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=20721) by Zileas. Especially with S1 coming to a close and offering similar rewards. I have been bumping this thread(http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1051100) trying to fish for a Riot response but I figured asking support directly might be easier after all. So, what happened to the beta icons  While I can't give you an ETA at this time I can ensure you that this is on our radar and we will be acting on it asap. There are some limitations that prevented us from following up with this in the past but we're going to approach this in a new way and you'll see some news about it soon. Thanks so much for raising awareness of this though, we really appreciate it! //Romulus Riot Games Community Assistant August 26, 2011 16:11 | ||
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