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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team.
No, but you can do sheen -> DCap -> Triforce -> Atma's. Sion's laning without some sort of dcap-based opening is just too shitty because all his trading ability is dependent on AP other than his ult, which, while powerful, isn't really enough against most people.
I've been meaning to experiment with something like Doran's Ring x2->Sheen opening, then transitioning into a Triforce centric AD build. So basically AP Sion until like level 11, then using your AP strength to farm up an AD build rather than roam (though you could do that too). The stats on the D-Rings are useful throughout mid-game, and they're only a 500 gold sink if you sell them later on. Not sure if AP Sion is a good enough laner to go without relevant runes/masteries, or AD Sion likewise late game. Guess I could try a hybrid-ish thing, like getting both Pens in the offense tree and skipping the usual Havoc and the extra %AP (which is only cost effective with larger amounts of AP).
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On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team.
Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team.
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i would rather have neither as they both suck
janna/sona 4 lyfe. dont trust people with alistar in solo q but hes good too
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On March 14 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team.
If you play support sion that ultimate isn't gonna do much.
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On March 14 2012 05:45 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team. If you play support sion that ultimate isn't gonna do much.
65 free ad, 50% attack speed are reasonable steroids. You dont need much more than that. Just grab a Ghostblade instead of shurelias. Stand in and beat on people.
And even if you get blown up, it still does more than taric does. He just stands around looking stupid.
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Support sion is shit. I've done it. Even with his steroids he has a hard time killing wolves that late in the game.
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On March 14 2012 05:45 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team. If you play support sion that ultimate isn't gonna do much.
Sion has 65 AD and 50% AS from his E+R, it'll do significantly more than you think. Perhaps most relevantly, support Sion would be great for taking down Baron without putting your team at low health.
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I don't think any of you have actually tried the things you're suggesting.
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On March 14 2012 05:48 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:45 JackDino wrote:On March 14 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team. If you play support sion that ultimate isn't gonna do much. 65 free ad, 50% attack speed are reasonable steroids. You dont need much more than that. Just grab a Ghostblade instead of shurelias. Stand in and beat on people. And even if you get blown up, it still does more than taric does. He just stands around looking stupid.
Without any other attackspeed, crit or arp you won't be dealing that much damage, no surviviability, you'll just blow up. Atleast taric makes your carry do more damage if he gets charged rather than healing him for 10hp/second.
Shurelyas is far more usefull than sion with a ghostblade.
Tarics ult gives 35 ad, much more usefull on your ad carry who has arp, crit and attackspeed than a sion having 65 ad and a ghostblade.
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@ Hidden: You realize that 65 Ad is basically a BF sword and a Pickaxe, and 50% attack speed is more than a recurve bow? I have a hard time thinking that Sion has trouble killing wolves with that.
@ Dino: Ghostblade IS a source of crit and ad, plus if you just grab a HoG and bits of a randuins you should have enough health to survive the burst from the enemy aps. At which point you have to remember you arent trying to actually carry the game- you are the 5th man on a team that has 4 other carries. If the enemy team takes the time to kill you you MORE than did your job.
It might not be as strong as typical supports, but I would maintain that it is better than taric's late game.
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On March 14 2012 05:48 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:45 JackDino wrote:On March 14 2012 05:23 Two_DoWn wrote:On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Which is why I would rather have support sion over support taric. One of them has an ultimate that actually helps his team. If you play support sion that ultimate isn't gonna do much. 65 free ad, 50% attack speed are reasonable steroids. You dont need much more than that. Just grab a Ghostblade instead of shurelias. Stand in and beat on people. And even if you get blown up, it still does more than taric does. He just stands around looking stupid.
aight, settle down T_D. we get it, you don't like Taric, but can you stop blowing this way the fuck out of proportion? Taric's stun is longer range. Taric has a fucking heal. Taric has an Armor Aura that can give an offensive benefit to his team if it seems prudent to do so. Taric's ult does what it does regardless of whether they blow you up in 0 seconds or not. There are plenty of things that you're ignoring that make Taric an obviously better support because you're using a scenario where supports are spending 8K on non-boots/wards/oracles items (omen/gb/reverie). Taric's still fine in his niche.
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It might not be as strong as typical supports, but I would maintain that it is better than taric's late game.
Which is like saying Shaco's late game isn't quite as bad as LeBlanc's.
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On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. Show nested quote +No, but you can do sheen -> DCap -> Triforce -> Atma's. Sion's laning without some sort of dcap-based opening is just too shitty because all his trading ability is dependent on AP other than his ult, which, while powerful, isn't really enough against most people. I've been meaning to experiment with something like Doran's Ring x2->Sheen opening, then transitioning into a Triforce centric AD build. So basically AP Sion until like level 11, then using your AP strength to farm up an AD build rather than roam (though you could do that too). The stats on the D-Rings are useful throughout mid-game, and they're only a 500 gold sink if you sell them later on. Not sure if AP Sion is a good enough laner to go without relevant runes/masteries, or AD Sion likewise late game. Guess I could try a hybrid-ish thing, like getting both Pens in the offense tree and skipping the usual Havoc and the extra %AP (which is only cost effective with larger amounts of AP).
you do dring x 2 -> dcap -> triforce with the early sheen if you want. trust me, you need the dcap early, going without it just doesn't work out. and AD Sion is strong enough in his niche late game that you don't need the right masteries for it, whereas AP Sion benefits a lot from the right pregame spec. I'd run this: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=1-0-3-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-4-0-2-1&tree2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=1-0-3-0-1-3-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2 with MPen/Armor/MRpL/AP. The thing is, they really need to be the right teamcomp to pull the switch successfully. If the opposing team has strong kiting, don't do this shit, just go AP and blow someone up in 1 combo instead of derping around trying to get in melee range of Ashe + Janna + Anivia.
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On March 14 2012 06:01 ManyCookies wrote:Show nested quote +It might not be as strong as typical supports, but I would maintain that it is better than taric's late game. Which is like saying Shaco's late game isn't quite as bad as LeBlanc's.
Which is relevant if we are discussing the pro's and cons of each character. (Even if this is a terrible example cuz shaco's late game is a hell of a lot better that people give it credit for).
@Mog- Fair enough. TBH Taric's singular saving grace is Shatter. I just DESPISE characters that turn into dead weight late game. And in my opinion, a lack luster heal and a point and click stun are not enough to make up for the fact that other supports do so much more than he does. I dont like his ult because in a teamfight scenario using it offensively is tantamount to suicide, his sustain isnt as good as sorakas, his peel is terrible compared to every other support, and his burst and cc arent nearly as good as leona's or alistars. I mean, technically you CAN try to cheese your way to a victory in lane, but other champions are better at that as well.
If there is one truth to lol, its that characters that do a bunch of things mediocre are outclassed by characters that do one or two things very very well. Taric does a lot of shit, but none of it very well.
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Don't hate on taric plz,he is the king of "enemy brush rushing " in sub lvl 30 normals.
YOU KNOW YOU DID IT!
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Yo, Taric is actually legit on dominion. By which I mean "about mid tier".
BUT RUGFEEDR WHY ES??? you ask.
Because, thanks to the melee-heavy and generally drawn out nature of fights, and the preponderance of squishy melee AD characters, Taric can actually utilize the cooldown reduction from his heals.
And yes, I have tried this.
In fact, I have 1v1ed full build Xins like this. You're trash for the first 5-8 minutes or so, but once you hit 40% cdr, a little tank and a little aspd, you start stomping.
ROUGH BUILD GUIDELINE:
Start serks or mercs (depending on how much cc they have). Build for Pringlegem first, then Stinger, then Chain then Neg cloak. For 5k gold you can now 1v1 just about anyone that can't kite you. Build into whatever sorts of items you like, and prioritizing mostly tanky.
PLAYSTYLE:
Go top, if they have tons of physical (likely) QWEQ Q>W>E otherwise QQEE Q>W>E. If they have almost no physical, Q>E>W. Ult whenever possible. If the enemy team can't focus you they can't kill you so try and absorb some of the damage but keep your team alive. Stun wisely. You're not a great contributor to the top fight, but you're great for janky bot gank strats.
Get 5k gold. Win game.
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you just use his ult in the middle of your team later in the game. early game it's a nuke, but later on, just smash that shit and give everyone a free 15/25/35 AD/AP for 10 seconds.
his niche in lane is more than just cheese though, I guess that's my point. It's not like running Leona where once they can outsustain your burst, you're fucked. Instead he's like a cheese that's robust to counter strategies. When a Taric lane gets fucked in the early levels, there's a really big difference between having free armor and heals attached to your CC and having a straight CC/damage kit on a character that's getting no CS. For instance, I love cheesing bot lane with friends on my smurf. Ideally I want to run Panth + Leona, but sometimes they don't own Leona and they just go Taric instead. While Panth + Leona can snowball harder and has bigger WTFDMG in lane, it can get fucked over super hard by say, a well executed level 2 gank from a jungler when you commit to a fight. When you play with taric, it gives you the flexibility to recover from your cheese failing.
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On March 14 2012 06:25 Mogwai wrote:
you just use his ult in the middle of your team later in the game. early game it's a nuke, but later on, just smash that shit and give everyone a free 15/25/35 AD/AP for 10 seconds.
I think that the difference between 20 and 35 isn't anywhere near large enough to justify the fact that it's his ult rather than his Q. The ult's just regular underpowered because as a support you don't really care about your AD/AP except in some bizarre fringe cases, but his old ult was way stronger in ITS bizarre fringe cases
When you play with taric, it gives you the flexibility to recover from your cheese failing.
Not as true as you're making it sound - Taric has near game-worst gold scaling and level scaling. No matter how the game goes, he's gaining less from ambient gold and his levels than almost any champion in the game, because he can't make good use of it due to poor scaling that's pretty much entirely based around him having that hard stun. Taric might be slightly better at getting to merely 'slightly behind' than 'behind' than Leona, but her ult alone will do more than Taric can do even when her lane is behind.
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On March 14 2012 06:12 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 05:22 ManyCookies wrote:On March 14 2012 05:14 gtrsrs wrote:
:ohyou:
He gets two hits in, he gets 800 health and all his bruiser friends get 400 health. Unless he gets caught or the positioning is astronomically bad on his team's part, he's probably going to win the team-fight for his team. No, but you can do sheen -> DCap -> Triforce -> Atma's. Sion's laning without some sort of dcap-based opening is just too shitty because all his trading ability is dependent on AP other than his ult, which, while powerful, isn't really enough against most people. I've been meaning to experiment with something like Doran's Ring x2->Sheen opening, then transitioning into a Triforce centric AD build. So basically AP Sion until like level 11, then using your AP strength to farm up an AD build rather than roam (though you could do that too). The stats on the D-Rings are useful throughout mid-game, and they're only a 500 gold sink if you sell them later on. Not sure if AP Sion is a good enough laner to go without relevant runes/masteries, or AD Sion likewise late game. Guess I could try a hybrid-ish thing, like getting both Pens in the offense tree and skipping the usual Havoc and the extra %AP (which is only cost effective with larger amounts of AP). you do dring x 2 -> dcap -> triforce with the early sheen if you want. trust me, you need the dcap early, going without it just doesn't work out. and AD Sion is strong enough in his niche late game that you don't need the right masteries for it, whereas AP Sion benefits a lot from the right pregame spec. I'd run this: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/mastery-tree-planner#&tree1=1-0-3-0-4-4-0-0-1-1-0-0-0-4-0-2-1&tree2=0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0&tree3=1-0-3-0-1-3-0-0-0-1-0-0-0-0-0-0&v=2 with MPen/Armor/MRpL/AP. The thing is, they really need to be the right teamcomp to pull the switch successfully. If the opposing team has strong kiting, don't do this shit, just go AP and blow someone up in 1 combo instead of derping around trying to get in melee range of Ashe + Janna + Anivia.
I don't really follow you on this one. So your shield has a 0.9 AP ratio, I don't see how that forces you into building Deathcap. If you're going AD the shield is a throwaway skill. His passive is pretty damn strong early game, and that plus his free AD makes his trading not too shabby. He can survive most lanes until 6, at which point his ult will heal him to full any time he likes.
His ultimate blows every other AD steroid in the game completely out of the water, it is like 6000 gold worth of stats at level 16, and that's not even counting the completely absurd AoE heal.
His lack of a gap closer is his main weakness, for sure he's a poor choice against Ashe/Anivia, but if they lack someone like that he's amazingly strong.
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This isn't really on topic with the aTaric discussion, but how/why do you pull a lane? It's a term that gets thrown around, but I don't really get how to do it. I'm under the impression it means bringing your opponents minion waves to just before your tower to just farm while zoning and being safe. Am I right about this, and how is it accomplished?
Also, I don't understand how to freeze a lane. Just last-hitting while your opponent isn't still tends to push the lane for me. Am I just not last hitting late enough?
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EPT
