General Warning: Do not caster bash in this thread. If there's something specific you don't like about OGN's casting, use the Feedback thread above for constructive criticism. Otherwise, don't comment about it. ~ Neo, 30.03.12, 20:25 KST
On March 28 2012 21:32 Cixah wrote: I don't really buy into shout casting. It's fine if the banter inbetween fights is actually worth while information ala Phreak and Crew, but this is just incorrect information. Yea, I get moletrap has done SC2 and such in the past, but atleast have correct information.
What exactly was the incorrect information?
Dont bother, there will always be people hating on the casters.
I have what you may call a professional interest in this, so I still want to see what the guy thought was the incorrect information
Someone said Anivia forced Ryze to build a negatron, which is somewhat correct. Jiji has been doing a Banshee rush after Tear instead of Catalyst and Glacial. Since both top and bottom became threats, he opted to make Glacial instead of finishing the Banshee. It's very common for Ryze to have a negatron and really isn't forcing anything, because of the Ryze's scaling.
moletrap later made a comment about how ryze didn't have any damage items, i definitely got the impression that he didn't understand about his mana scaling and how he is built. still think the casters are perfectly fine though.
cmon, i'm pretty sure that in the beginning of the game he said ryze scales with mana.
He did. I think he could have phrased things better and said Ryze interrupted an item build (he had a cloth armor and negatron but no finished Frozen Heart or Banshees; or said Ryze was just underfarmed since he could have had both that late. Misphrasing something is hardly "incorrect information" though
On March 28 2012 21:32 Cixah wrote: I don't really buy into shout casting. It's fine if the banter inbetween fights is actually worth while information ala Phreak and Crew, but this is just incorrect information. Yea, I get moletrap has done SC2 and such in the past, but atleast have correct information.
What exactly was the incorrect information?
Dont bother, there will always be people hating on the casters.
I have what you may call a professional interest in this, so I still want to see what the guy thought was the incorrect information
Someone said Anivia forced Ryze to build a negatron, which is somewhat correct. Jiji has been doing a Banshee rush after Tear instead of Catalyst and Glacial. Since both top and bottom became threats, he opted to make Glacial instead of finishing the Banshee. It's very common for Ryze to have a negatron and really isn't forcing anything, because of the Ryze's scaling.
moletrap later made a comment about how ryze didn't have any damage items, i definitely got the impression that he didn't understand about his mana scaling and how he is built. still think the casters are perfectly fine though.
cmon, i'm pretty sure that in the beginning of the game he said ryze scales with mana.
He did indeed, Aside from the negatron mention I didnt particularly notice wrong information.
On March 28 2012 21:32 Cixah wrote: I don't really buy into shout casting. It's fine if the banter inbetween fights is actually worth while information ala Phreak and Crew, but this is just incorrect information. Yea, I get moletrap has done SC2 and such in the past, but atleast have correct information.
What exactly was the incorrect information?
Dont bother, there will always be people hating on the casters.
I have what you may call a professional interest in this, so I still want to see what the guy thought was the incorrect information
Someone said Anivia forced Ryze to build a negatron, which is somewhat correct. Jiji has been doing a Banshee rush after Tear instead of Catalyst and Glacial. Since both top and bottom became threats, he opted to make Glacial instead of finishing the Banshee. It's very common for Ryze to have a negatron and really isn't forcing anything, because of the Ryze's scaling.
Umm glacial before negatron is far better so he forced the negatron, if not Jiji just made a stupid decision but how's it casters' fault to assume that he wasn't stupid?
He's been doing a Banshee rush skipping Glacial entirely from the other Ryze games I've seen. With Corki top Glacial is far better, but had Corki been completely shut down, he would most likely finish the Banshee first.
On March 28 2012 21:32 Cixah wrote: I don't really buy into shout casting. It's fine if the banter inbetween fights is actually worth while information ala Phreak and Crew, but this is just incorrect information. Yea, I get moletrap has done SC2 and such in the past, but atleast have correct information.
What exactly was the incorrect information?
Dont bother, there will always be people hating on the casters.
I have what you may call a professional interest in this, so I still want to see what the guy thought was the incorrect information
Someone said Anivia forced Ryze to build a negatron, which is somewhat correct. Jiji has been doing a Banshee rush after Tear instead of Catalyst and Glacial. Since both top and bottom became threats, he opted to make Glacial instead of finishing the Banshee. It's very common for Ryze to have a negatron and really isn't forcing anything, because of the Ryze's scaling.
Umm glacial before negatron is far better so he forced the negatron, if not Jiji just made a stupid decision but how's it casters' fault to assume that he wasn't stupid?
He's been doing a Banshee rush skipping Glacial entirely from the other Ryze games I've seen. With Corki top Glacial is far better, but had Corki been completely shut down, he would most likely finish the Banshee first.
Well then, that's just awful :/ 650 gold for the spell block?
Holy shit, the presentation of the tournament looks so professional. Especially the comparison of the players & their position facing each other looks badass. Have you noticed that CLG wears dark shirts and looks a lot more evil and determined while xenic storm wears white and looks more or less friendly?
Well, watching the VOD now, have been spoiled by some friends though, sounds like CLG did freaking poorly ...
- Picks, MR's team outpicked really cleverly. CLG's comp is technically a 'late' game comp in the usual bruiser top, IF mundo gets scary and their tank line/back line setup gets a good full engage, and sv was doing that, he cleared his jungle on spawn cooldowns, remained 50cs ahead of naut. However, double ad is technically a later game comp if you have two ads with a built in escape and hard zonecontrol cc. MR's anivia needs no explanation, and his ult and wall placements especially were crucially amazing. CLG never got their tank line on tank line fights instead most of the 'fights' started out with 2 seconds of free damage on mundo / cho where they were instantly brought to 1/3 and forced to back off, then it was DL+jiji against 2 ad 1 ap and naut's range cc. This is wholly ignoring all the instances that anivia caught someone with a wall for free damage.
- Lanes. Top is quite ungankable (all this is from CLG's perspective), cho almost always pushes his lane, and hotshot's really not the kind of player to freeze the lane at his side. So corki was always about a valkyrie away from his tower, pretty pointless for SV to gank. Bot lane, i think was slightly mis-played, graves was alone from lvl 1 - 2 but was not full-zoned for some reason. They literally could have zone'd him from exp or make him pay with 1/2 of his hp for any cs he tries to force. Chauster also likes to stand next to dlift in lane for some reason, not so much in the bushes, could have maybe stopped the naut gank, but not too sure about that. Mid lane + jungle (I feel like these two are very interconnected can be judged together), aniv is quite gankable by ryze + mundo, not sure why more pressure wasn't put on MR's aniv in the pre-6 levels, jiji and saint usually have pretty good gank chemistry too, really odd, i think partly because saint was in jungle farm mode. Jiji did put some pressure on aniv pre-6 and was semi-leading in cs, this all ended when aniv got boots 3 blue and lvl6 though. Still pre-6 mundo could have gone into Xenic's jungle once or twice, I personally heavily favor ryze + mundo again aniv + naut at the real early stages. Then again, nothing much can be said in the end, CLG decided to end jiji's laning phase pretty quickly, opting to give DLift + SV parts of mid farm. Not too sure how I feel about that. In the end, I think Xenics played a really good and safe laning phase and put themselves in a really good position for their comp.
- Lastly, that baron, i don't really care about the steal. Chauster made a small mistake of not going in further so his oracle could detect that ward. I think it could be possible that someone made the call to all stay on the outskirts of the pit so they could insta turn as a team and 5v4. This cost them, they lost the 5v4 straight up. They were so tightly stacked it was so painful to watch, Naut ult knocked them all up, with follow up from Janna, corki + graves all have considerable aoe burst and corki's own aoe shred. Their positioning made it a no-contest fight.
On March 28 2012 21:32 Cixah wrote: I don't really buy into shout casting. It's fine if the banter inbetween fights is actually worth while information ala Phreak and Crew, but this is just incorrect information. Yea, I get moletrap has done SC2 and such in the past, but atleast have correct information.
What exactly was the incorrect information?
Dont bother, there will always be people hating on the casters.
I have what you may call a professional interest in this, so I still want to see what the guy thought was the incorrect information
Someone said Anivia forced Ryze to build a negatron, which is somewhat correct. Jiji has been doing a Banshee rush after Tear instead of Catalyst and Glacial. Since both top and bottom became threats, he opted to make Glacial instead of finishing the Banshee. It's very common for Ryze to have a negatron and really isn't forcing anything, because of the Ryze's scaling.
Umm glacial before negatron is far better so he forced the negatron, if not Jiji just made a stupid decision but how's it casters' fault to assume that he wasn't stupid?
He's been doing a Banshee rush skipping Glacial entirely from the other Ryze games I've seen. With Corki top Glacial is far better, but had Corki been completely shut down, he would most likely finish the Banshee first.
Well then, that's just awful :/ 650 gold for the spell block?
I think it works better if lane phase is drawn out more. It's great for trades, especially against champions with follow up like Anivia. If she tries to Q for chill then E, Anivia won't have double damage. Plus Banshee doesn't pop from ult, making the R into E combo deal significantly less damage.
On March 28 2012 23:00 nehcnhoj wrote: Bot lane, i think was slightly mis-played, graves was alone from lvl 1 - 2 but was not full-zoned for some reason. They literally could have zone'd him from exp or make him pay with 1/2 of his hp for any cs he tries to force. Chauster also likes to stand next to dlift in lane for some reason, not so much in the bushes, could have maybe stopped the naut gank, but not too sure about that.
From the only bit of CLG chat we heard: about 2min before the gank, SV tells them "Naut will be 6 soon, and he is very good at lane ganking. You should ward the lane brush so he doesn't do that." The bot lane gank should have never happened.
CLG again loses Baron when having Chogath :o. I'm also really cynical about the whole zoom in on players thing after they die. The group A matches the zooms on people were bad and were done during fights. Watching CLG's match they did the zooms at the right time, but then I realized this was spectator client so if you zoomed on a guy who just died it will be his three minute later reaction...
lol i think they're fixing their delay this time; they took some of our suggestions! No LoL client music during picks and bans! Otherwise.. Again CLG gets a loss cause of warding; really strong/solid play by xenics storm (actually really scary we could be talking about their play later this year). Otherwise I think CLG.NA just got outmatched, lots of hype coming into it, new countrt different environment blah blah blah, they'll make it 2nd out of their group and it'll be fine.
Listening to the cast, definitely didn't seem like they mentioned Ryze's passive which kinda buffs on mana, if they mentioned it I definitely skipped it; but in the actual game it didn't seem like the knowledge was there. Otherwise casters are doing what they can in the short time they are learning, and they are picking up steam so good for them!
Oh and doublelift... why you pull a doublelift and facecheck bush. =X
So they're showing the person's facial reactions 3 minutes ago when it actually happened? SV died and had an appropriate "disgust" look after he died on the spectator client so I guess it is possible.
On March 29 2012 02:12 l3ird wrote: lol i think they're fixing their delay this time; they took some of our suggestions! No LoL client music during picks and bans! Otherwise.. Again CLG gets a loss cause of warding; really strong/solid play by xenics storm (actually really scary we could be talking about their play later this year). Otherwise I think CLG.NA just got outmatched, lots of hype coming into it, new countrt different environment blah blah blah, they'll make it 2nd out of their group and it'll be fine.
Listening to the cast, definitely didn't seem like they mentioned Ryze's passive which kinda buffs on mana, if they mentioned it I definitely skipped it; but in the actual game it didn't seem like the knowledge was there. Otherwise casters are doing what they can in the short time they are learning, and they are picking up steam so good for them!
Oh and doublelift... why you pull a doublelift and facecheck bush. =X
They did mention that ryze scales with mana (which has nothing to do with his passive btw.)
On March 29 2012 02:20 BlackMagister wrote: So they're showing the person's facial reactions 3 minutes ago when it actually happened? SV died and had an appropriate "disgust" look after he died on the spectator client so I guess it is possible.
Someone said that Riot can set the delay to as low as ~5-10 sec for the delay. That would give the production crew some time to react and switch over to the player cam for a reaction shot. They also used a ~30 sec delay at IEM Hanover so it's definitely not always 3 min.
On March 29 2012 02:20 BlackMagister wrote: So they're showing the person's facial reactions 3 minutes ago when it actually happened? SV died and had an appropriate "disgust" look after he died on the spectator client so I guess it is possible.
Someone said that Riot can set the delay to as low as ~5-10 sec for the delay. That would give the production crew some time to react and switch over to the player cam for a reaction shot. They also used a ~30 sec delay at IEM Hanover so it's definitely not always 3 min.
Casting: again, I thought Moletrap was ok, I know it's pretty basic for an actual lol player but when he explained why Ryze backed as soon as he could afford a tear I was impressed. I found myself wishing they would go over the bans more, CLG at least very intenionally banned hard counters to their choices i.e. banning Cassio and first picking Ryze, or how picking a pushing mid vs Ryze is a really good pick.
honestly I think in the current state of the game the character selection can be one of the most fascinating parts of the game and I with they analysed it deeper but, it is a great deal of information to learn.
Oh, and I did get a little annoyed (tho this was more Torch) at them constantly saying they have no initiate when they have Rupture + Crescendo
but I'm just glad to see a tournament being casted by people not on Riot's payroll to be honest.
The Game: I don't think CLG's picks were bad (although I think Ez is weak atm). I was suprised how well the Cho v Corki matchup worked out for Hotshot. honestly the game flipped on three incredibly stupid moments, why would doublelift facecheck that brush, especially on Ez, where you can q and check for the buff? Why did saint want the Blue wraith that badly, I know I'm watching from god mode view but I'm pretty sure he saw that at least 2 people were contesting him.
and lastly the baron steal, the game was going bad at this point but this sealed the deal. honestly I don't even know what to say. between having rupture, and feast+smite combo how Naut can walk up smite I have no idea.
Mundo: I'm starting to wonder about Saint on Mundo, aside from the epic 15 min 2 man Baron at IEM, I feel like Saint on Mundo isn't the threat that I'm so used to Saint being. Please anyone correct me if I'm wrong but has saint had a big game on Mundo ever since he started playing him as one of his mains?
I remember in I think Saint daily #3 he said he does everything Shy does better, but I'm just not feeling it, his Shy when he was playing her a lot was a beast compared to his Mundo.
EPT
...
