[Patch 1.0.0.134: Nautilus] General Discussion - Page 94

On February 21 2012 13:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Someone please write a huge ranting post on how to learn to play aggressive and how to recognize when you should/shouldn't be aggressive (primarily during laning phase) for people like me who are really passive laners.

I feel after not playing mid for a long time (I used to mainly play mid, then I started playing only bruisers) I just don't know how to play that lane anymore. I start playing like a pussy then the other guy starts taking control of the lane and zones me out.

On February 21 2012 14:00 0123456789 wrote:
Just for fun, doing another carry video analysis.



Skip to like 5:30. Game starts off with EG raiding the other team's blue. Westrice and Nhatt go back and they go to lane. After they go back, there's most likely two options and places the opposing team could be at. EG's blue, or their red.

5:55, you see kennen. He approaches from his jungle, most likely signaling red. If not, very good mind games. But I would say red. This is important to note.

5:56 you see irelia come to lane.

6:05, janna comes from river. This can either mean blue, or she warded. Either way, I don't like Nhat's ward there. It barely sees anything. If you're pushing, obv that sees nothing. you're fucked. If you're not pushing, then you don't really need a ward anyways. But since he didn't know where the enemy lee sin was, he just safe warded. That ward spots for lvl 2 lee sin red ganks though. If lee sin went red first, and he doesn't gank, then he wasted a red. And his ganks are weaker until 2nd red pops.

6:20 nhatt wards second brush. I'm not sure why he did that.
      Pros: Can spot lee sin ganks through brush,
      Cons:, you're getting pushed. You need sight on the brush westrice is in to avoid poke dmg if you're pushed, I don't like that second ward.

When you push, vs when you want to be pushed: I'm not gonna go too into this right now.
Right now, it's a tristana janna lane vs sona vayne. Tristana went dorans blade. I don't like that Westrice decided to play this lane passive. During this time, sona wasn't nerfed. Meaning she is hella strong, and vayne has good pokes lvl 1. I think they should've went agressive and maintained lane control. Tristana has no way to regen back, and they warded for lee sin ganks.

6:59, sona gets hit by an auto and trist e. She was indecisive/brush not giving vision. Tried to q auto probably, but they had no brush vision. Ends up taking free dmg. You put a ward in that brush when you're being pushed so the enemy doesn't abuse brush like that.

7:01 janna nadoes, westrice just stays still. Could've dodged the nado. Takes an auto and q dmg for free. After taking the dmg, westrice moved forward, trying to deal some dmg back to equalize. Trist then jumps in, which wasn't that bad, but he made a mistake. He moved back in front of ranged creeps. If you fight behind ranged creeps, then they won't hit you. If you fight in front of them, they will turn to attack you. If you fight in the auto attack range of cannon creep, it turns on you. Also, janna moved a little too far into the brush after trist jumped. If she stopped at the edge of the brush, turned and then shielded trist, she would've used e faster. The trist jump wasn't bad initially, if Atlanta jumped, hit once and then backed, or just kept position behind creeps and away from cannon minion, then ran, then he would've been fine. But Atlanta jumps, hits, goes into cannon minion range, hits, goes into/stays in creep wave, goes for a third shot, meanwhile taking creep dmg, and then attempts a 4th shot (boots vs dorans), doesn't get it, and ends up taking even more dmg. (Watched this part 30x times. This is analyzing.)

7:55, creeps are gone, they have vision of second brush, and trist was low. As sona, I would have immediately checked brush or even before that when creeps are at tower because if you can stop a b with trist at low health, you can pressure trist hard/make him miss tons of cs. But nhatt checks brush at like 8:07. This might seem pretty minor, but it's pretty huge.

8:51, notice how westrice has a bolt on atlanta. He goes to auto, but he can't get his mouse to hover on atlanta, so he q's in closer to atlanta, hits him, and then uses e and gets the third proc off. If westrice, hit an auto, q'd, then e'd and auto'd, that's more dmg on atlanta and less dmg taken on him when he goes for a manuever like that. Small thing, but it's good to notice.

8:49, atlanta moves forward to get an auto attack off. Presumably a misclick, since you don't want to move forward like that when your opponent is in brush. Westrice sees it, gets an auto, but misses a last hit. This kind of trade is iffy.

8:43, atlanta moves up, but Westrice decides not to auto him in favor of a last hit. All the pros talk about how you should go for that last hit over harass. But that might not always be the best move. It's always a case by case basis. Especially in bot lane. Maybe I'll show this in depth more later.

9:07, atlanta sees westrice go up for a last hit, and lands an auto when he goes for it. Atlanta missed one of his creeps though. The trade was one creep for harass. Except he ends up eating more shit because he auto'd in front of ranged creeps, and chases a litle too far and eats sona auto and q. Keep in mind that during this time, atlanta went and bought so he has dorans and boots. Westrice hasn't bought yet.

9:2(0?), westrice b's. He as like a little over 800 gold. All he can buy is a dorans, and a ward. He had 2 pots left in his possession to use. I don't like this. #1, he misses cs because he b'ed when he was being pushed, and 800 is not a good number to go back for. However, he has to b at some point. If he wants to be in a position where he can b and miss no cs, he has to either get a gank, or he has to engage and then force atlanta to b and then push the wave, and then b. Option 3 is push harder than trist, then b. Option 2 is impossible because he's behind in itemization and trist janna is just stronger when vayne has no items, and skarner is at top. Option 3 is impossible because vayne can't outpush anything, especially trist. I think he should've waited, because like I said, 800 is not that great a number. If he went back at 950+, he could get 2 dorans, come back with 2 dorans, while trist has one, and be stronger in terms of itemization. When he goes back when he can only buy one dorans, then he equals trist in itemization.

9:42, trist is up by 8 cs.

10:22 10:26, pros of pushing. You can harass while enemy champion tries to cs. Atlanta gets a poke off. If you keep pushing, these pokes start to add up. Cons, possibility of getting ganked. (No cons, because you have ward coverage. Only way you can get ganked is if jungler comes through lane.) 10:34, atlanta got a nice e auto attack harass off, then a bad jump. Only reason it didn't f him up harder is because of crit. 10:42, both players go into a stance where they both try to cs. This stance only last a few seconds but let me tell you the reason why they do. It's because of melee creeps. Melee creeps allow you to farm at a distance that is farther away from your opponent making you more safe when you last hit. When there are only ranged creeps out, you are forced to move forward because they are further back, making you more vulnerable.

10:52 nhatt lands an autoattack on tristana. I've only been watching westrice intensively, but what nhatt does is really really really good. It's just that it doesn't add up to much when you're a support. Before 10:52 if you watch nhatt. You'll see that he kind of keeps moving back and forth, back and forth. What he's doing is he's keeping out of tristana auto range, while looking for opportunities where he can harass him in return. And that makes me realize that Nhatt punished trist pretty heavily every time trist made a mistake. Mark of a good support, even though your punish as a support champion is like 1% of their life. But this kind of stuff seperates good players from the mediocre.

10:57, Nhatt manages to land another auto. He gets that one off when he sees trist running and he has superior ms. Yeah from like

10:52 - 11:11 watch nhatt. He constantly looks for opportunities to harass trist. And he gets free shots off. 11:20 trades q auto for e auto. That's a pretty good trade considering trist doesn't have heals.

12:07, terrible mistake by westrice. As you can see, westrice moves forward, hits a melee creep, not even a last hit, and takes e auto harass. That's bad. If atlanta didn't e first ,atlanta could have just jumped, e'd in the air, and just omgwtfbbq raped westrice with his ult and stuff too since he was 6. Really big mistake. One small mistake like that is a HUGE mistake. But Atlanta f's up by missing his jump by going e auto, then the jump. What started as a golden opportunity, ends up as a huge costly mistake as Atlanta takes tons of harass. But that's just what happens when as a ranged carry you need to go into melee range to hit a spell and you miss.

12:25, no comment on that terrible last hitting. But at top level play, your opponent is not going to miss cs. And that kind of missed cs hurts.

13:04, atlanta uses his superior range at this point to poke. Westrice decides not to go buy. Since atlanta bought and he didn't, atlanta has superior itemization. If there was no teamfight, Westrice would have lost more cs and gotten more behind.

Ok, so 13:50 the first teamfight.

On February 21 2012 14:18 emperorchampion wrote:
Great post numbers, I tried to make it a bit more readable by spacing it out a bit more.



ALL CREDIT TO NUMBERS, I'M JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE READABLE ^_^

On February 21 2012 14:39 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
@cloud I hardly, if ever, lose top. I usually am able to figure out the matchup and play it out decently and always manage to trade effectively and zone them out.
Mid feels hopeless to me though. Maybe playing past few months as only melee bruisers just made me shitty with ranged champions.

Also every opponent I have comes to mid with like freaking 50AP at lvl1 and it seems I can't really do much against them and fall into this defensive mindset and eventually get zoned off. :/

Maybe I just need to start spamming games at AP mid and AD carry till I get decent at those roles again but still if would be really helpful if someone like smash or yango gave me a few pointers about agressive play and mid lane dynamics.

On February 21 2012 16:43 BlackMagister wrote:
Would archangel -> warmogs work on really spamming AP champs like Cass, zil, karthus and soraka? It seems weird, but warmogs doesn't seem that trollish on AP champs and AA gives the most pure AP for spam champs. Then deathcap to stacking even more AA or warmogs? Seems like a good build to cut out the tanky AP item which is Rylai's just going for the two extremes of AP and health with two items instead of one hybrid item.

On February 21 2012 17:13 Witten wrote:
Sometimes I feel like I'm ok at this game, then I decide to solo queue and I play awfully and always lose . Any advice for a level 20 scrub who is looking to improve and needs a hug?

And to avoid this being a QQ post, do you think Evelyn is worth purchasing?

On February 21 2012 17:17 Shikyo wrote:
And if you go for max CDR on Olaf(Frozen Heart pretty good) he doesn't even need any DMG items at all because he has true dmg on like a 3 second cooldown. Think he's underrated, wins many lanes top as well. I think he takes more skill to play than most bruisers though, as those mechanics with his Q are pretty unforgiving

On February 21 2012 16:10 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
People should really start playing olaf. He's stupidly powerful and riot seems to have buffs lined up for him next patch for no good reason. Bought him yesterday and been doing really well since. 2nd game at one point I literally 1v4ed their team with the help of GP ult.

He's so good vs comps that don't have much mobility and rely on AOE and CC to protect their carries. Pop ult+ghost, walk through morgana and galio and truck their ashe/kogmaw whatever.

On February 21 2012 18:27 Seuss wrote:
The ult change isn't necessarily a buff. Flat damage reduction is applied after resistances, so the formula for calculating damage incurred is:

(Damage * %Reduction) - Flat Reduction = Final Damage