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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 17 2012 07:18 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 07:15 TheYango wrote:On February 17 2012 06:28 Mogwai wrote:On February 17 2012 06:22 Two_DoWn wrote:
But it isnt 5k worth of stats for something that actually makes you directly stronger, only that adds to the options you have. I think that is fine. 20% CDR is like 25% increase to your spell related DPS. Blue buff is nutty. I agree with your assessment that it, in many ways, drives early game action, but due to the nature of the CDR cap and general mana constraints, it's existence makes a large number of items totally irrelevant. I dunno, I don't have a good solution, I just find building casters on TT a lot more interesting than on SR since you have to weigh the power of Mana and CDR vs. raw AP/MPen without having Blue as a crutch. Personally I'm not too concerned with the power of blue buff. I can deal with it being strong. I do think it's a design issue, however, that blue bufff essentially knocks out the items under two tabs of the caster item list (CDR and mana regen) from really being useful. That's definitely a problem. Red achieves its value without disrupting itemization by providing benefits that are for the most part un-itemizable. Riot just happened to choose 2 benefits for blue buff that ARE itemizable, and thus made it totally impractical to itemize for those stats. It's not just items (which I do think is a bigger deal on the design spectrum) but what about Runes? I hardly see AP players get Mana Regen Seals anymore because they get Blue starting at level 5 now. I see more AP/Level or Flat Armor on mid lately.
That happened anyway though. They destroyed mana/lvl runes about 9 months ago. Before that everyone used them.
That isnt a blue buff transfer consequence, that was an actual nerf.
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it was partially a nerf, but also people getting smarter about playing the game. harder hitting spells = fewer spells needed to kill the other guy = less mana regen needed, just kill them in fewer spells. they could revert the only Mana/level runes and I'll bet 75+% of casters still wouldn't run them.
I mean, I used to run double mana regen/level on pantheon and utility spec and open boots and throw a ton of spears.
prior to mastery changes, I was running 21/9/0, opening dblade, no mana regen anywhere to be seen in spec and was just killing people in half as many spears = no mana regen needed.
people have come a long way, which is why I'm saying that if you sent me back in time 2 years, knowing what I know now, I would roflstomp everyone.
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yeah that makes a lot of sense. A lot of people never seem to grasp the fact that the entire scene generally improves over time and skill is never stagnant.
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On February 17 2012 06:57 Mogwai wrote:
EDIT: also wtf at Galio getting outscaled by them? Galio's ult is one of the single largest beatings in this entire game, no idea how you're getting that he gets outscaled. Granted, he won't cleanup a teamfight the way they will lategame, but assuming you hit a good ult, you don't have to. Their late game scalings are different, but Galio's a more potent teamfighter.
I guess it's the soloQ mentality getting to me, what I meant was that outside of his ult, which yells "I rely on my team to be able to take advantage of what I give them", Galio is a lot less useful than them late game. He is too fragile 1v1 to make as good a splitpusher, can't clean up, absorb less damage, and I think their peeling/tank capabilities beat his slow/shield. He's still got one of the best ults of the game but outside of it he doesn't compare.
Just had a Sion full AD runes, starting brawler glove+pot, exhaust/ignite, and E at level 1 against my Irelia. That was so obnoxious a setup. You can't trade early on against such a cheesy opening (well obviously Irelia can't, but I guess others cannot either), and he can kill you very easily if he gets some lucky crits in. He rushed zeal into red pot, too.
I feel like he could have zoned me all day long if he had wanted as soon as he'd have gotten an advantage, but he kept on pushing so I still farmed.
I got to a point where I would have been able to kill him regardless (well, early midgame at least, before he had too much HP to make W irrelevant) but he just pushed then roamed to grab some kills and feed himself, and once teamfights came he had a Soraka to synergize with his ult and help keep him alive, all while building only damage (IE/PD/tabi, basically, into atma's). Rylai Mordekaiser, GP's passive, Caitlyn and support Lux weren't enough to stop him, but I put it more on them not being able to kite nor focus him properly (we only had Morde's ignite and he never used it on Sion before we told him several times for example), since they couldn't afford tanking him.
I found the opening really obnoxious though. Relying so hard on early lucky crits always makes me cringe, but I've got to admit it's even more effective than a mage going 50 AP at level 1.
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That said, how DO you deal with an AP who starts 50AP when you're playing a disadvantageous matchup at mid anyway. I was matched vs this cass who had 50AP at level and I just got owned really hard (I was Karthus).
I was thinking of building a full MR page (can also be useful when I'm solo top vs those anti-bruiser APs) and just trade better. I know that usually people prefer taking AP quints etc cuz as AP carry you're supposed to be doing the damage in teamfights but early on most of the damage is from base values anyways and later the gain from ap runes is insignificant. And the extra survivabilty from MR should be useful at all the stages.
What do you guys think about this?
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What's the website with all patch notes for certain champs?
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United States37500 Posts
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So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ
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On February 17 2012 08:10 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
That said, how DO you deal with an AP who starts 50AP when you're playing a disadvantageous matchup at mid anyway. I was matched vs this cass who had 50AP at level and I just got owned really hard (I was Karthus).
I was thinking of building a full MR page (can also be useful when I'm solo top vs those anti-bruiser APs) and just trade better. I know that usually people prefer taking AP quints etc cuz as AP carry you're supposed to be doing the damage in teamfights but early on most of the damage is from base values anyways and later the gain from ap runes is insignificant. And the extra survivabilty from MR should be useful at all the stages.
What do you guys think about this?
I like AP on quints because I used to main Morgana and she needs some by level 5 to one-shot the wave. But I've found myself using MR blues more and more (I like playing tanky mages, too).
But on my rune setups top I have pages with both MR and armor quints, to adapt to the matchups.
As for unfavorable match-ups I don't know. Is Irelia supposed to lose to Sion regardless of cheesy setups? Reminds me that we had a first pick "Mordekaiser mid, and nothing else" that went all "Ha we win" when he got counterpicked by Cassiopea. Turns out he fed. x)
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On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ
Pantheon is in this strange state where despite being underplayed, he will also always be overplayed. Always. Don't spread our secret!
Wukong I rarely see despite his sleeper OP status, not a lot of Yorrick either (but that's a good thing, that champ's just stupid). Some casters you don't see top much, like Gragas. Volibear.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ
If you want to stay along the lines of Bruisers for top, try Olaf.
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On February 17 2012 08:39 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ If you want to stay along the lines of Bruisers for top, try Olaf.
But get a triforce. Trifore olaf is REAL strong.
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On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ
Try heimer top.
Came cross one a few times recently and his passive regen is so much he just shrugs of harass while running away from anything looking at him while spamming rockets and bombs in there face.
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United States37500 Posts
On February 17 2012 08:45 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ Try heimer top. Came cross one a few times recently and his passive regen is so much he just shrugs of harass while running away from anything looking at him while spamming rockets and bombs in there face.
Really really hard to play Heimer without pushing your lane somehow. His entire kit is made for pushing. If you miss that grenade when enemy jungler comes, you are fucked. The longer lane between the outer towers for Top lane (compared to Mid) really hurts a squishy AP champ without any escapes. :X
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On February 17 2012 07:58 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 06:57 Mogwai wrote:
EDIT: also wtf at Galio getting outscaled by them? Galio's ult is one of the single largest beatings in this entire game, no idea how you're getting that he gets outscaled. Granted, he won't cleanup a teamfight the way they will lategame, but assuming you hit a good ult, you don't have to. Their late game scalings are different, but Galio's a more potent teamfighter. I guess it's the soloQ mentality getting to me, what I meant was that outside of his ult, which yells "I rely on my team to be able to take advantage of what I give them", Galio is a lot less useful than them late game. He is too fragile 1v1 to make as good a splitpusher, can't clean up, absorb less damage, and I think their peeling/tank capabilities beat his slow/shield. He's still got one of the best ults of the game but outside of it he doesn't compare. Just had a Sion full AD runes, starting brawler glove+pot, exhaust/ignite, and E at level 1 against my Irelia. That was so obnoxious a setup. You can't trade early on against such a cheesy opening (well obviously Irelia can't, but I guess others cannot either), and he can kill you very easily if he gets some lucky crits in. He rushed zeal into red pot, too. I feel like he could have zoned me all day long if he had wanted as soon as he'd have gotten an advantage, but he kept on pushing so I still farmed. I got to a point where I would have been able to kill him regardless (well, early midgame at least, before he had too much HP to make W irrelevant) but he just pushed then roamed to grab some kills and feed himself, and once teamfights came he had a Soraka to synergize with his ult and help keep him alive, all while building only damage (IE/PD/tabi, basically, into atma's). Rylai Mordekaiser, GP's passive, Caitlyn and support Lux weren't enough to stop him, but I put it more on them not being able to kite nor focus him properly (we only had Morde's ignite and he never used it on Sion before we told him several times for example), since they couldn't afford tanking him. I found the opening really obnoxious though. Relying so hard on early lucky crits always makes me cringe, but I've got to admit it's even more effective than a mage going 50 AP at level 1.
its really the most obnoxious thing ever to play a sion who does that
he's deceptively stronger than most people think he is -_-
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On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ
I've seen Nunu top do well in normals. Taric seems like it could work in theory, I've seen a guide for it, but haven't seen anyone do it. Then of course you could also do AD carry top like Urgot, Twitch, Corki or Graves. Rincent being the example of Twitch top doing well, Bruceleet I think does Urgot top and other various high elo players do the other champs top.
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On February 17 2012 08:57 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 07:58 Alaric wrote:On February 17 2012 06:57 Mogwai wrote:
EDIT: also wtf at Galio getting outscaled by them? Galio's ult is one of the single largest beatings in this entire game, no idea how you're getting that he gets outscaled. Granted, he won't cleanup a teamfight the way they will lategame, but assuming you hit a good ult, you don't have to. Their late game scalings are different, but Galio's a more potent teamfighter. I guess it's the soloQ mentality getting to me, what I meant was that outside of his ult, which yells "I rely on my team to be able to take advantage of what I give them", Galio is a lot less useful than them late game. He is too fragile 1v1 to make as good a splitpusher, can't clean up, absorb less damage, and I think their peeling/tank capabilities beat his slow/shield. He's still got one of the best ults of the game but outside of it he doesn't compare. Just had a Sion full AD runes, starting brawler glove+pot, exhaust/ignite, and E at level 1 against my Irelia. That was so obnoxious a setup. You can't trade early on against such a cheesy opening (well obviously Irelia can't, but I guess others cannot either), and he can kill you very easily if he gets some lucky crits in. He rushed zeal into red pot, too. I feel like he could have zoned me all day long if he had wanted as soon as he'd have gotten an advantage, but he kept on pushing so I still farmed. I got to a point where I would have been able to kill him regardless (well, early midgame at least, before he had too much HP to make W irrelevant) but he just pushed then roamed to grab some kills and feed himself, and once teamfights came he had a Soraka to synergize with his ult and help keep him alive, all while building only damage (IE/PD/tabi, basically, into atma's). Rylai Mordekaiser, GP's passive, Caitlyn and support Lux weren't enough to stop him, but I put it more on them not being able to kite nor focus him properly (we only had Morde's ignite and he never used it on Sion before we told him several times for example), since they couldn't afford tanking him. I found the opening really obnoxious though. Relying so hard on early lucky crits always makes me cringe, but I've got to admit it's even more effective than a mage going 50 AP at level 1. its really the most obnoxious thing ever to play a sion who does that he's deceptively stronger than most people think he is -_-
104 Damage level 1. Scared the shit out of me in our first exchange.
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On February 17 2012 09:07 BlackMagister wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:35 aRyuujin wrote:
So, who's a fun new top who's pretty underplayed? Looking to get a new champ I've seen Nunu top do well in normals. Taric seems like it could work in theory, I've seen a guide for it, but haven't seen anyone do it. Then of course you could also do AD carry top like Urgot, Twitch, Corki or Graves. Rincent being the example of Twitch top doing well, Bruceleet I think does Urgot top and other various high elo players do the other champs top.
I like graves top, cause his passive is really strong. Alot of the solo tops with gap closers will rush in on you then eat all 3 buckshot rounds to the face, which actually do quite a bit of damage
On February 17 2012 09:11 seppolevne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 08:57 arb wrote:On February 17 2012 07:58 Alaric wrote:On February 17 2012 06:57 Mogwai wrote:
EDIT: also wtf at Galio getting outscaled by them? Galio's ult is one of the single largest beatings in this entire game, no idea how you're getting that he gets outscaled. Granted, he won't cleanup a teamfight the way they will lategame, but assuming you hit a good ult, you don't have to. Their late game scalings are different, but Galio's a more potent teamfighter. I guess it's the soloQ mentality getting to me, what I meant was that outside of his ult, which yells "I rely on my team to be able to take advantage of what I give them", Galio is a lot less useful than them late game. He is too fragile 1v1 to make as good a splitpusher, can't clean up, absorb less damage, and I think their peeling/tank capabilities beat his slow/shield. He's still got one of the best ults of the game but outside of it he doesn't compare. Just had a Sion full AD runes, starting brawler glove+pot, exhaust/ignite, and E at level 1 against my Irelia. That was so obnoxious a setup. You can't trade early on against such a cheesy opening (well obviously Irelia can't, but I guess others cannot either), and he can kill you very easily if he gets some lucky crits in. He rushed zeal into red pot, too. I feel like he could have zoned me all day long if he had wanted as soon as he'd have gotten an advantage, but he kept on pushing so I still farmed. I got to a point where I would have been able to kill him regardless (well, early midgame at least, before he had too much HP to make W irrelevant) but he just pushed then roamed to grab some kills and feed himself, and once teamfights came he had a Soraka to synergize with his ult and help keep him alive, all while building only damage (IE/PD/tabi, basically, into atma's). Rylai Mordekaiser, GP's passive, Caitlyn and support Lux weren't enough to stop him, but I put it more on them not being able to kite nor focus him properly (we only had Morde's ignite and he never used it on Sion before we told him several times for example), since they couldn't afford tanking him. I found the opening really obnoxious though. Relying so hard on early lucky crits always makes me cringe, but I've got to admit it's even more effective than a mage going 50 AP at level 1. its really the most obnoxious thing ever to play a sion who does that he's deceptively stronger than most people think he is -_- 104 Damage level 1. Scared the shit out of me in our first exchange.
love the crits too, for like 200 = auto lane win. real underestimated solo top imo
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Yes, unplayed but really stronk tops are: POPPY!!!, Volibear!!! Brand, Fizz, Lee Sin, Malphite, Olaf, Rumble?, Skarner, Talon, Trundle and Yorick.
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I don't like trundle top.
Or anywhere really.
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EPT
