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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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Finland33997 Posts
It's not just about me, though? Like as you've heard, Snoopy got banned. You think that was deserved?
Do you think people who want to play some unconventional builds at times deserve to be banned? Do you think that if you try to give your team advice without saying "sir" and "please" every other word you deserve to be banned?
Also I definitely did deserve to get banned, though doubleban with 2 hours inbetween makes me think that Tribunal doesn't even remove already-reviewed cases from it which also is quite a problem, don't you think?
Also another example, you ever watched Destiny stream LoL? He badmouths people in every match and flames etc. and he's not banned. You really think the system works?
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On February 15 2012 20:46 Condor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 20:32 Mondieu wrote:
I got banned 10 minutes later after I played AD Sona. You can actually get banned very quickly after you get reported.
P.S: Not literally 10 minutes, but ~1 hour.
I think they need to tone down Tribunal a bit, you just can't have fun anymore. If you try crazy builds and end up losing you just get all the reports for teh crazy build. Did you try AD Sona in ranked? For sure you can try crazy builds with friends, or in normals (and let people know about it beforehand), but if you tried them first in ranked and failed with them, what would you expect people to do?
Of course it wasn't ranked. It was a normal game where I ended up going 1v2 bottom because we had 2 guys top for some reason. I've gotten my ass kicked in a ranked once by AD Sona + Taric. There's no way Shen/Vayne can deal with those two. Ended up going 0/10 that game >.>
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The system absolutely works.
The "double ban issue" was actually addressed by a red less than a month ago and I'm pretty sure there was a very rare bug that happened (and was fixed), but different from what you describe.
There may be rare cases where innocent people somehow get actioned by the tribunal, but I very much doubt it. Repeat offenders show up in the tribunal at an increased rate because they are essentially on probation, which is part of why you sometimes see people with 2-3 games. Moreover, first-time offenders who are actually averaging a reasonable number of good games to reported games get very short bans, to the tune of 1-3 days. A seven day ban is very much up the ladder and indicative of exceptionally unacceptable behavior. Finally, bans can be appealed (although I doubt in a timely enough fashion to be meaningful if it's couple day ban, but you'd have it stricken from history; more applicable for lengthy bans). Even in the case where (iirc) Morello posted on the forums and personally reviewed cases, they were all guilty.
There isn't some big conspiracy or awful system here. You are forced to wait 60 seconds between votes and that's more than enough time to review several cases and know to punish or not. Moreover, the Tribunal is useless for grinding IP like you would imply people do by spamming punish.
Just because everyone who deserves to be banned hasn't yet gotten banned doesn't mean those who do get banned shouldn't.
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On February 15 2012 21:14 Craton wrote:
The system absolutely works.
Anybody playing ranked games would like to have a word with you.
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Finland33997 Posts
Yeah my first ban was 3 days and the one 2 hours later was 7 days. Ban on the troll account was 1 day.
The system "absolutely" works when every other ranked game you have a flaming feeder insulting your mother who has 700 games played this season(meaning they havent been banned)? Hmhm. I highly doubt this(and if everyone deserves to get banned then I think that the system is WAY too strict and makes california/texas or whatever seem like disneyland)
@below poster: DW Craton knows that the system works so you probably just picked a skin that's wrong color or something, bannable offense
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Well tbh I got banned once and I did nothing against the summoner's code. I probably just played too much ranked games in a row and did bad/lost quite a lot. People will report you for that, they'll say you were afk or that you abused them verbally even if you didn't. Then you end up on the tribunal and people just press punish without looking to get fast IPs. Otherwise I don't see HOW I could've been banned since I don't flame and put flamers on ignore list so I don't have to deal with them. I never troll/afk/leave either.
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Moba's all have a culture of negativity, but being negative in one game isn't bannable. People like to think that everyone's a troll all the time because every third game 1 out of 9 people decide to be a dick and then 1 or 2 more people start arguing with them. In reality it usually isn't the same person being a dick all the time, but the general hate culture is pervasive.
The best way to deal with someone saying that e.g. you're bad is the ignore list. People who actually do make a habit of calling their teammates trash will eventually show up on the Tribunal as long as people actually bother reporting them. The key point is (and always has been) the density of poor performance. At the very high Elos (what you see on stream), a lot of people simply don't make reports and thus some people who really should be in the tribunal don't get there. I'm sure this is true in games as a whole, but I can only speak for what I see from streamers and people I've played with. That some people do not get added to the tribunal because of people not reporting doesn't make the inverse true.
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Riot hands out bans like candy. Been banned 2 times. 0 in hon
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Yeah, I never bother reporting people. Probably should if they literally AFK for 10 minutes though. If the game is totally over when they AFK I definitely won't, though.
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On February 15 2012 21:21 Craton wrote:
Moba's all have a culture of negativity, but being negative alone isn't bannable. You know how to deal with someone saying you're bad? The ignore list. People who actually do make a habit of calling their teammates trash will show up on the Tribunal as long as people actually bother reporting them. At the very high Elos (what you see on stream), a lot of people simply don't make reports.
being negative isn't ban-able? than why do have negative attitude as a report? if that is a fake report option like unskilled i will be so pissed. i often report people who say gg after first blood/ first dragoon then say it again every time something bad happens.
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Craton, what don't you understand is that OVERALL the Tribunal does a good job, but by it's nature, it's far from perfect. You are banned only on accounts of CHAT even in case of intentional feeding. You can be reported by 4 men premades (this doesn't make any sense). You can be banned for being negative in 1% of your games where you were obviously trolled (1/4 life ganks against a fed Riven, who didn't see that).
As a matter of fact, if you don't EVER chat, you might never be banned, whatever you're doing. You could be hardcore trolling, never following your team, staying in fountain rather than take risks, and never fear a single ban because of how the tribunal works.
This is NOT a perfect system, even though real stupid trolls («I'M FEEDING NOW LOL» «gg noobs» «you suck so much omg u suck so bad omg») will get banned in the end. But not even ALL stupid trolls. So... It doesn't «absolutely work».
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I edited it prior to your post to make it more clear. It's bannable if you make a habit of it, but you simply won't get banned if you're negative in one game of a hundred unless you're doing other unacceptable things in your other games.
You are banned only on accounts of CHAT even in case of intentional feeding.
It's pretty painfully obvious whether or not someone is intentionally feeding from their score, build, and level versus time of game. You don't even have to scroll down to see any of that and most of it is pretty big on the screen. Chat paints a pretty large picture of the game. I've never had a case of intentional feeding that was unclear. The edge cases are always people being kind-of negative or dickish but not full bore things like racism or intentional feeding.
I do agree that the Tribunal is not perfect, but I don't agree that people are getting banned just because e.g. premades want to troll.
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So, i realise that I'm a bad player playing against other bad players, but ive tried out support karma again in the wake of sona/soraka nerfs and discovered that a kill lane with like Riven or Tryndamere is hilariously OP against baddies.
works best when enemy jungler has terrible pre-6 ganks and you can start dorans ring.
then you get loads of gold from kills and assists and can build a bit of ap along with wards/oracles and turn in to a beast.
Plus you get to use the best skin in the game, Pineapple Karma.
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Finland33997 Posts
On February 15 2012 21:21 Craton wrote:
Moba's all have a culture of negativity, but being negative in one game isn't bannable. People like to think that everyone's a troll all the time because every third game 1 out of 9 people decide to be a dick and then 1 or 2 more people start arguing with them. In reality it usually isn't the same person being a dick all the time, but the general hate culture is pervasive.
The best way to deal with someone saying that e.g. you're bad is the ignore list. People who actually do make a habit of calling their teammates trash will eventually show up on the Tribunal as long as people actually bother reporting them. The key point is (and always has been) the density of poor performance. At the very high Elos (what you see on stream), a lot of people simply don't make reports and thus some people who really should be in the tribunal don't get there. The inverse is not true.
Dude you really don't get it? If you get reported frequently, no matter the reason, you WILL get banned. Or do you REALLY think that how a game, something you do to have FUN playing, is meant to be played so that even in NORMALS you need to ONLY pick champions that fit the team comp, run proper summoners, and build the most standard items in the world? What if you play solo top twitch and do decently but not great, say 4-5 and your team loses, what do you think will happen, especially if even at the start they're calling you an idiot for that pick? It's reports. What if you want to build a full AD malphite to have some fun and your team ends up losing even though you try your best to win? Reports. What if you don't want to play support and want to try some new champion you bought, and then end up in bottom lane, you lose, and your team flames you for not picking support because you were last pick, even though you try your best to win the whole time?
Now what do you think happens after this repeats in say, 50 games? If you play a total of 2000 games 50 isn't many, right?
So what do you think happens when in tribunal you scroll down and notice reports in 50 games? Do you read through them all? Probably not. Do you think he is going to get punished in the tribunal? Absolutely.
And did this person deserve being banned, for wanting to have fun while playing a game, a computer game thats entire purpose is having fun while not hurting any of his teammates or opponents and saying nothing negative?
No.
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Except that scenario doesn't happen. Reports decay over time and as your volume of games increases. You don't get 10 report games shown just because you have a 1000 games; you get 10 shown because you have maybe 100 surrounding that.
There's also a difference between non-standard builds and trolling. People play supports as AP carries or Yi as AP and while it's often sub-optimal, it's not trolling and people don't get banned for such a thing. Conversely, AD Malphite is a troll build. If you want to actively detract from your team's chances, do so with people who have agreed to it ahead of time. You know how to do it in solo queue? Ask your team nicely for permission. You can even bring it up again at the start of the game just for a safety net if you're paranoid about it.
When people show up with 10 games reported, they're usually almost all bad because that's why they appeared there in the first place. You don't need to look through every game to make a decision, you only need a handful (or even just 1 case of blatant racism). I'd love to see the Tribunal case where someone had 10 games reported and didn't deserve to be there.
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On February 15 2012 21:41 Craton wrote:
Conversely, AD Malphite is a troll build
A bit like AD Tristana, look, she has no AD scaling at all !
Malphite has AoE scaled on AD anyway and a PERCENTAGE AD BOOST, so why not build him AD with atmogs ? How is that a troll build ? WHO THE FUCK DECIDES THAT.
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Atmogs isn't building him AD. Building him AD is things like IE/BT. Atmogs is a standard bruiser set up that won't have an eye batted on a champ like Malphite. Tristana has an attack speed steroid and substantial attack range. There is more to scaling than ratios on abilities.
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Finland33997 Posts
AD malphite is a troll build? How, if he builds that way and tries his best to win? He has an aspd steroid and an AD steroid.
But you're speaking in such absolutes that I'm done arguing with you, either way I don't agree that players in the game should be more restricted than my 7 year old little sister.
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Exact quote from Riot.
Penalties imposed as a result of The Tribunal decisions work on a graduated system, carrying progressively harsher penalties for repeat offenders. In almost all cases, a first time offender will receive a warning, explaining that The Tribunal has determined that certain of such offender’s in-Game activity is worthy of punishment and encouraging the user to abide by the Summoner’s Code. Depending on the frequency of discipline by The Tribunal and the nature of the user’s offending actions, punishment will become progressively harsher, resulting in a ban ranging from a single day to several weeks. A member of the Riot Games support team will be assigned to audit The Tribunal system, and will be responsible for reviewing the individual cases deserving of more extreme punishment (generally, anything harsher than a single day ban).
People aren't getting banned willy-nilly by an automated system gone rogue. You can cling on to the fact that I treat AD Malphite as a troll build all you'd like, but it doesn't change the way the system works. I doubt there are people being banned because they do abnormal, but reasonable builds (as in, not building haphazardly with no rhyme or reason), even AD Malphite.
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On February 15 2012 21:01 Shikyo wrote:
Oh they review 14 day bans? At least they didn't review my 7 day ban o_o
How many people actually see how many games are played? If there's a list of like 30 games reported they're far more likely to punish than if there's a list of 2 games reported
Most people actually do blindly press punish...
You also get banned if you DON'T troll or do anything else wrong, which indeed is the issue
Most people review their cases properly. Its just a wrong perception of people who don't review stuff themselves to think that people spam punish.
Tribunal isn't an IP farming tool - most people who judge cases do so because they want to do it.
In my own case, I've played hundreds of games on all the servers combined. I've never trolled my team or insulted someone. I've had plenty of game with people threatening to report me for feeding and plenty of leaves where my internet fucked up. I've never even received a warning, much less a ban.
If you really think that tribunal judges cases wrongly, why don't you start judging cases yourself? Help improve the system by making fair decisions there.
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