On February 28 2012 22:09 Shikyo wrote: Their patch notes are like 12 hours late -_- Really lame.
Also Fiora E seems OP.
naw, its still 12 hours from when they are gonna post them. Patch is delayed a day.
Also- to get back to the protect the kog discussion: IMO the best way to run protect the kog is to just do it offensivly. Grab a strong top, strong carry type jungle, and basically any strong mid. Then just get those 3 people farmed in lane and force the enemy to deal with 4 threats instead of just one.
Like if you have Shyv, GP, Cassio, and Kog: who is the enemy gonna kill? Any 1 person if ignored is going to ruin the enemy team.
On February 28 2012 15:55 arnath wrote: What wins vs Nidalee in top?
hahahahhahah good joke nidalee = retarded lane-queen, always win, build whatever you want, never lose
Only post 6 imo. Just punish her super hard pre-6, and you'll win post6, against nidalee.
nidalee is godlike against most top laners pre-6. she has range, a heal, and an armor shred. against most top laners (melee, sustain, and high defensive stats) she is literally a hard-counter
Pick fizz and from level 2 on you can roll her. If she tries to lasthit or harass you jump her, while your W is up you outdamage her so hard it's not even funny. Just don't use your E to backoff because you need to use your mana on the aggresive. Feels impossible to lose this matchup as fizz at my elo (1600ish) unless you get ganked.
On February 28 2012 22:09 Shikyo wrote: Their patch notes are like 12 hours late -_- Really lame.
Also Fiora E seems OP.
naw, its still 12 hours from when they are gonna post them. Patch is delayed a day.
Also- to get back to the protect the kog discussion: IMO the best way to run protect the kog is to just do it offensivly. Grab a strong top, strong carry type jungle, and basically any strong mid. Then just get those 3 people farmed in lane and force the enemy to deal with 4 threats instead of just one.
Like if you have Shyv, GP, Cassio, and Kog: who is the enemy gonna kill? Any 1 person if ignored is going to ruin the enemy team.
Orianna is great for this. I don't remember if you were in our few 4 prot Kog games.
Kayle jungle, support Nunu, whatever strong top, Orianna mid. Enemy team has a hard time killing Kog.
So I recently (took me like a year of playing this game) finally found my love for total assholes toplane (Nidalee/Teemo/Wukong). Since I dunked my elo failing with them anyway, I might as well add another one who seems like an absolute jerk to mah roster.
Twitch.
Trying to stalk the godlike being called rincent I found out exactly two things:
a) His skillorder is "max e max q after 1 in w then max ult", I assume he means QEEWER. What I'm not sure about with this quote is that it sounds as if he means E > Q > R which I don't get the meaning of. I mean, E > R makes sense because it will probably add up to more damage. Q > R doesn't seem to make sense at first.
Does anyone know if he just worded it badly and means R > E > Q > W or if maxing EQ over R makes sense on Twitch?
b) Items.
The three strongest Twitch players I'm aware of (please share if you know anyone else) are Rincent (who plays him solo top at 2k+, Vampyro (who mains him AD but plays top/mid) and Skyaz (who plays him purely AD bot). All three follow along the lines of IE -> BT -> PD/FM/Banshees/QSS. Basic assumptions stays the same: Twitch has insane damage output without any type of AS item early on and can therefore skip PD as his second big item.
What I'm curious about, in case anyone played around with him before, what's keeping him from itemizing like Teemo for on-hit builds aka Wriggles/Wits/FM/Atmas? ... My guesses would be his innate AS steroid from Q making AS worse and his stealth from Q which makes it easier for him to position before a fight. However, once the fight starts and he draws attention my guess would be that on-hit shit is more effective again.
Please don't bury this or LP.eu will hate me even more for trying to practice him in normals. =P
Edit: @Neo, should I just make a Twitch thread and copy paste those question+answers once I got some even when I'll have like no content whatsoever in the OP?
On February 28 2012 22:09 Shikyo wrote: Their patch notes are like 12 hours late -_- Really lame.
Also Fiora E seems OP.
naw, its still 12 hours from when they are gonna post them. Patch is delayed a day.
Also- to get back to the protect the kog discussion: IMO the best way to run protect the kog is to just do it offensivly. Grab a strong top, strong carry type jungle, and basically any strong mid. Then just get those 3 people farmed in lane and force the enemy to deal with 4 threats instead of just one.
Like if you have Shyv, GP, Cassio, and Kog: who is the enemy gonna kill? Any 1 person if ignored is going to ruin the enemy team.
Orianna is great for this. I don't remember if you were in our few 4 prot Kog games.
Kayle jungle, support Nunu, whatever strong top, Orianna mid. Enemy team has a hard time killing Kog.
I dunno, thats still too defensive for me. I mean it works, and there is a lot of protection, but you sub Udyr for Kayle and slap Shyv, GP, Irelia, Wukong top and what is the enemy gonna do? Its just a matter of why give up advantages with your picks that you dont have to give up? There is no reason you cant run strong early game team with decent late game scaling, and Kog Maw.
My main thing with teamcomps is you never want to plan on giving the enemy the advantage for any huge length of time. That teamcomp is way to weak early, and even late game it is built around "well what IF they get to kog?" It works, IF kog is farmed enough. But if you cant get there you are screwed. Its just got too many eggs in 1 basket for my taste, especially since you throw away what could be such a potentially potent force (the jungle) to plan for the worst case scenario (kayle ult on Kog).
Its more than "oh T_D doesnt like support jungles" as well. I like Monty's kayle. I think it works very well. But I personally think Nunu+Kayle leaves you with too big a damage gap, especially if you want to throw a supportish mid like Ori into the mix. You can get the same peel with smart positioning and a Lee Sin or Singed in the jungle, for example, even if you didnt want to go full offensive carry. I would only throw Kayle into a comp that had Sona or support galio, a support champ that is going to be able to throw out a lot of CC so that Kayle can go full offensive and only have to worry about doing deeps and finding whoever needs the ult the most.
I just think that the M5 version of protect the Kog, with GP, Shyvana, Ryze/Galio, and then Kog is much more potent than a full defensive version simply because you dont have to directly protect Kog Maw. You protect him simply by having 3 other characters that are just as scary if not scarier than he is. And its really hard to kill a Kog if you have to go through 3 farmed bruisers to get to him.
Another issue is that you can protect kogmaw as much as you want, but if he's your only late-game hero and the enemy team has 3 carries, then woopdeedo they don't even need to aim for kog to roll your team.
That said, the aim of protect kog is to get kogmaw and ONLY kogmaw to late-game items as soon as possible. Protect Kog works GREAT if you can get kog on 4 items while the enemy carries are still on 2-3, even if your other heroes are pretty poor. However, this requires the whole team to make concessions to Kogmaw to get him farmed up, not just protect him in teamfights.
You only have a limited number of autoattacks with your ult. Since those splash and have like 1200 range, you want to make them count. You can hit the enemy back line with your ult, you obviously don't really want to ult just to kill some tank. Wit's End doesn't make sense there because it gets better the more attacks you land, but you can't actually land more attacks. Ignoring his ult, Wit's End would make perfect sense together with his ASpd buff as you would proc the passive more often. But honestly, nothing's better than hitting the enemy back row with IE enhanced autoattacks while you are out of range of the enemy burst casters.
On February 28 2012 22:09 Shikyo wrote: Their patch notes are like 12 hours late -_- Really lame.
Also Fiora E seems OP.
naw, its still 12 hours from when they are gonna post them. Patch is delayed a day.
Also- to get back to the protect the kog discussion: IMO the best way to run protect the kog is to just do it offensivly. Grab a strong top, strong carry type jungle, and basically any strong mid. Then just get those 3 people farmed in lane and force the enemy to deal with 4 threats instead of just one.
Like if you have Shyv, GP, Cassio, and Kog: who is the enemy gonna kill? Any 1 person if ignored is going to ruin the enemy team.
Orianna is great for this. I don't remember if you were in our few 4 prot Kog games.
Kayle jungle, support Nunu, whatever strong top, Orianna mid. Enemy team has a hard time killing Kog.
I dunno, thats still too defensive for me. I mean it works, and there is a lot of protection, but you sub Udyr for Kayle and slap Shyv, GP, Irelia, Wukong top and what is the enemy gonna do? Its just a matter of why give up advantages with your picks that you dont have to give up? There is no reason you cant run strong early game team with decent late game scaling, and Kog Maw.
My main thing with teamcomps is you never want to plan on giving the enemy the advantage for any huge length of time. That teamcomp is way to weak early, and even late game it is built around "well what IF they get to kog?" It works, IF kog is farmed enough. But if you cant get there you are screwed. Its just got too many eggs in 1 basket for my taste, especially since you throw away what could be such a potentially potent force (the jungle) to plan for the worst case scenario (kayle ult on Kog).
Its more than "oh T_D doesnt like support jungles" as well. I like Monty's kayle. I think it works very well. But I personally think Nunu+Kayle leaves you with too big a damage gap, especially if you want to throw a supportish mid like Ori into the mix. You can get the same peel with smart positioning and a Lee Sin or Singed in the jungle, for example, even if you didnt want to go full offensive carry. I would only throw Kayle into a comp that had Sona or support galio, a support champ that is going to be able to throw out a lot of CC so that Kayle can go full offensive and only have to worry about doing deeps and finding whoever needs the ult the most.
I just think that the M5 version of protect the Kog, with GP, Shyvana, Ryze/Galio, and then Kog is much more potent than a full defensive version simply because you dont have to directly protect Kog Maw. You protect him simply by having 3 other characters that are just as scary if not scarier than he is. And its really hard to kill a Kog if you have to go through 3 farmed bruisers to get to him.
I don't think it's Nunu + Kayle as much as it is Nunu + Bruiser Kayle. While you can build Kayle like a bruiser I don't think that's the correct decision in a "4-1" composition unless you're already well ahead (and even then). Kayle with Wriggles + Wit's End + Aegis simply doesn't do enough damage. She's significantly better with a BC, and that still provides plenty of team utility (more damage for Kog'maw!). It also helps avoid the problem Tap was describing where Kog'maw maxes out and your team is essentially damage capped.
You only have a limited number of autoattacks with your ult. Since those splash and have like 1200 range, you want to make them count. You can hit the enemy back line with your ult, you obviously don't really want to ult just to kill some tank. Wit's End doesn't make sense there because it gets better the more attacks you land, but you can't actually land more attacks. Ignoring his ult, Wit's End would make perfect sense together with his ASpd buff as you would proc the passive more often. But honestly, nothing's better than hitting the enemy back row with IE enhanced autoattacks while you are out of range of the enemy burst casters.
Ionic Spark rush is imo better than Wits end for Twitch. with his ulti in a creepwave he can proc the lightning even like 4 times per ulti attack and the AoE destroys the entire enemy team. Also it's really good for his sneakup attacks with stealth.
Does it work? I recall Ionic working on Xth attack launched, Twitch hits several targets but only attacks once with his ult, right? Or is it triggered for all targets on his Xth attack?
On February 29 2012 02:12 Alaric wrote: Does it work? I recall Ionic working on Xth attack launched, Twitch hits several targets but only attacks once with his ult, right? Or is it triggered for all targets on his Xth attack?
I've tested it man
Though now that you mention it im not sure if many lightning bolts can proc in a single attack or just 1. But at least in a teamfighting i was chaining lightning with every attack I made.
How important is ganking potential for a jungler these days? I've been playing a lot of jungling lately and it seems that there are two preferred methods: Build support items, oracles and farm a lot (udyr, maokai, malphite, amumu) or counterjungling, build oracles and stacking dbaldes (lee sin, shyvana, udyr). No one seems to be concerned about ganks anymore, especially before buying oracles. ---
On February 29 2012 02:12 Alaric wrote: Does it work? I recall Ionic working on Xth attack launched, Twitch hits several targets but only attacks once with his ult, right? Or is it triggered for all targets on his Xth attack?
I've tested it man
Though now that you mention it im not sure if many lightning bolts can proc in a single attack or just 1. But at least in a teamfighting i was chaining lightning with every attack I made.
Works. Doesn't seem to hit a single target more than once.
On February 28 2012 15:55 arnath wrote: What wins vs Nidalee in top?
I still think WuKING and Irelia are really solid picks against her. You might not win the lane, depending on jungler presence, but you can farm just fine and both are much better come late game.
There's a pretty huge difference between nid's who know how to play pre-6 and those that don't. I dunno what to say, sometimes every matchup feels unwinnable vs. her and other times I feel like I can dominate her with anyone.
On February 29 2012 04:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote: How important is ganking potential for a jungler these days? I've been playing a lot of jungling lately and it seems that there are two preferred methods: Build support items, oracles and farm a lot (udyr, maokai, malphite, amumu) or counterjungling, build oracles and stacking dbaldes (lee sin, shyvana, udyr). No one seems to be concerned about ganks anymore, especially before buying oracles. ---
Its very important. In reading your post it kind of looks like you got really screwed up somewhere when someone tried to teach you to jungle.
There are 2 types of jungles: gankers and farmers. The individual build that they run is largely irrelevant from this distinction. Maokai and Alistar are going to use thier gank potential and build gp5, while lee sin is going to do the same thing but build a wriggles.
On the other hand, Udyr and Shyvana will both try to farm a defensive item advantage that they can then carry into teamfights in order to survive. But Shyv goes wriggles and Udyr goes gp5.
Also: dont buy oracles in the jungle. It is an incredibly high level menuver that you REALLY need to play off properly in order to not throw the game away. Its riskier than rushing a snowball item on a laner. Not even joking. It can go THAT poorly.
And: Dont stack dblades on a jungle, even if you are behind. I hate that TOO does this. It locks you into a midgame and unless you get VERY luck you are gonna be behind the rest of the game and basically a non factor. If you are behind get a HoG and either a Philo or avarice blade. Gp10 will give you useful stats but still give you a shot to scale out of the hole you are in.
On February 29 2012 04:26 Mogwai wrote: There's a pretty huge difference between nid's who know how to play pre-6 and those that don't. I dunno what to say, sometimes every matchup feels unwinnable vs. her and other times I feel like I can dominate her with anyone.
yeah, this anyone can beat anyone with a low enough skill level. when champs are played to their potential at high levels, however, nidalee is pretty much peerless in top lane v melee champs. i think kennen stands a chance against her, but then again, kennen is another bullshit top laner with no counters. of everyone that you guys are postulating, i think riven might MIGHT have been able to draw against nidalee before riven's last change. i just don't see it any more though
list of bullshit top laners: rumble nidalee kennen vladimir ryze
surprise surprise they're all ranged or rumble, the asshole of champion design
On February 29 2012 04:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote: How important is ganking potential for a jungler these days? I've been playing a lot of jungling lately and it seems that there are two preferred methods: Build support items, oracles and farm a lot (udyr, maokai, malphite, amumu) or counterjungling, build oracles and stacking dbaldes (lee sin, shyvana, udyr). No one seems to be concerned about ganks anymore, especially before buying oracles. ---
Maokai really isn't about farming a lot. His jungle clearing speed deteriorates pretty rapidly. The biggest point for Maokai still is his ganking ability, imo, and later his teamfight utility. Maokai and Udyr aren't similar at all. I'm not really sure about Malphite. Whenever I play Malphite I feel like he's a pretty shitty jungler. He doesn't really have fast jungle clears and his ganks are pretty garbage without his ult. I think Amumu just flat out sucks so I never play him.
You still pick Lee Sin for his ganks. He's kinda like a more stable version of Shaco for me. If you pick Lee Sin and you don't look around for gank opportunities then idk why you would pick Lee Sin in the first place.
And: Dont stack dblades on a jungle, even if you are behind. I hate that TOO does this. It locks you into a midgame and unless you get VERY luck you are gonna be behind the rest of the game and basically a non factor. If you are behind get a HoG and either a Philo or avarice blade. Gp10 will give you useful stats but still give you a shot to scale out of the hole you are in.
holy shit I HATE it when Oddone builds like 3 dorans on Lee Sin and becomes completely useless past the early-mid game. I've seen him do it so many times but each time it just makes me feel sick. He does it with GP sometimes too, ugh.
On February 29 2012 04:26 Mogwai wrote: There's a pretty huge difference between nid's who know how to play pre-6 and those that don't. I dunno what to say, sometimes every matchup feels unwinnable vs. her and other times I feel like I can dominate her with anyone.
yeah, this anyone can beat anyone with a low enough skill level. when champs are played to their potential at high levels, however, nidalee is pretty much peerless in top lane v melee champs. i think kennen stands a chance against her, but then again, kennen is another bullshit top laner with no counters. of everyone that you guys are postulating, i think riven might MIGHT have been able to draw against nidalee before riven's last change. i just don't see it any more though
list of bullshit top laners: rumble nidalee kennen vladimir ryze
surprise surprise they're all ranged or rumble, the asshole of champion design
Oh cmon, rumble hardly qualifies for asshole of champion design.
On February 29 2012 04:15 AsianEcksDragon wrote: How important is ganking potential for a jungler these days? I've been playing a lot of jungling lately and it seems that there are two preferred methods: Build support items, oracles and farm a lot (udyr, maokai, malphite, amumu) or counterjungling, build oracles and stacking dbaldes (lee sin, shyvana, udyr). No one seems to be concerned about ganks anymore, especially before buying oracles. ---
Its very important. In reading your post it kind of looks like you got really screwed up somewhere when someone tried to teach you to jungle.
No one taught me to jungle. I've been doing it since season 1. I just feel like ganking isn't worth as much as it used to be compared to counterjungling, clearing wards and controlling objectives. In fact, I feel like oracle is worth it most of the time because bot is warded 90% of the time and a lot of supports don't time them like they should. Even lane ganking is impossible because the lane brush tends to be warded as well. And yes, I've been stacking dblade on Lee Sin too. His late game is really lacking anyway so I like to maximize his early game power. Although, I admit that I dont have much experience with Maokai. I bought him recently but never had a chance to play him competitively.
EPT
