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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
Thanks. Happy Gaming. |
On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though 
Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier.
Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm.
Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime...
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What wins vs Nidalee in top?
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I've been doing heal and cv on my supports and got caught a lot late game warding with it. Mang everyone needs an escape summoner or to play really safe.. cuz you think you're safe running from that corki with no cc and then GP ults you from fountain 
Also who does everyone think is their most fun champion? For me, it's trist. I just like jumping everywhere and shooting people places :p
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I just tuned into chaox's stream and it seems like he is commentating off of a replay of the crs vs dignitas games. Where can I find these replays? I can find the vods but itd be interesting to watch it off of a replay as well. Thanks
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On February 28 2012 15:51 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier. Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm. Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime...
Without an AD carry, it's usually much harder to take down towers. If you don't win the lane hard, in my experience you can't end the game (unless you're so far ahead you can just dive) and eventually lategame hits and their ad carry is really strong.
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On February 28 2012 15:55 arnath wrote:
What wins vs Nidalee in top?
hahahahhahah good joke
nidalee = retarded lane-queen, always win, build whatever you want, never lose
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On February 28 2012 15:55 arnath wrote:
What wins vs Nidalee in top?
Tryndamere wins. Talon can win too. Trynd can just straight up kill Nid if she does something wrong, he can clear waves pretty quick, heals up quickly, and Nid can't stop Trynd from farming which means that at a certain point Tryndamere gets to his god-like state. Talon loses early but W clears pretty fast once you get a few levels and his silence really hurts her. With a good/well timed gank Talon can actually gib Nidalee.
I don't play much top lane but I know that those two champions are kind of annoying as Nid. Talon less so during early levels and I think most Talons realized that he should go mid but if you do face him just know that you really really need to get an early advantage against him.
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On February 28 2012 15:59 Nehsb wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:51 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier. Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm. Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime... Without an AD carry, it's usually much harder to take down towers. If you don't win the lane hard, in my experience you can't end the game (unless you're so far ahead you can just dive) and eventually lategame hits and their ad carry is really strong.
But Tryndamere and Riven ARE AD carries...
o.o
I feel like you have never seen a Tryn/Riven attack a tower before. Hell, you could even put like a Graves/Vayne top. Have you ever tried it? They fair pretty damn well because they have ranged harrass, good utility, and escape tools. Then you have Carry ands awesome kill lane.
The whole point is some of the best Solo top Champs ARE AD carries.
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On February 28 2012 16:06 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:59 Nehsb wrote:On February 28 2012 15:51 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier. Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm. Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime... Without an AD carry, it's usually much harder to take down towers. If you don't win the lane hard, in my experience you can't end the game (unless you're so far ahead you can just dive) and eventually lategame hits and their ad carry is really strong. But Tryndamere and Riven ARE AD carries... o.o I feel like you have never seen a Tryn/Riven attack a tower before. Hell, you could even put like a Graves/Vayne top. Have you ever tried it? They fair pretty damn well because they have ranged harrass, good utility, and escape tools. Then you have Carry ands awesome kill lane. The whole point is some of the best Solo top Champs ARE AD carries.
No, they are not. When someone says "AD carry" they're referring to a ranged DPS champion. Not a melee bruiser (and despite the fact that Riven or Trynd really don't build much in the line of defenses they are still bruisers because of their high survivability in team fights due to their skill set).
Riven or Trynd hitting on a tower will deal a lot of damage to it but it also puts them at risk and they will get poked down while they're attacking the tower. AD carries are champions with range who deal AD damage meaning you can safely poke down a tower without taking damage from defenders assuming you and your team position properly.
Yes the terminology is stupid. That was discussed several pages ago. But when you say AD carry people assuming ranged DPS not melee bruisers or even melee DPS if you don't feel like classifying Riven/Trynd as bruisers.
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On February 28 2012 16:06 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:59 Nehsb wrote:On February 28 2012 15:51 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier. Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm. Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime... Without an AD carry, it's usually much harder to take down towers. If you don't win the lane hard, in my experience you can't end the game (unless you're so far ahead you can just dive) and eventually lategame hits and their ad carry is really strong. But Tryndamere and Riven ARE AD carries... o.o I feel like you have never seen a Tryn/Riven attack a tower before. Hell, you could even put like a Graves/Vayne top. Have you ever tried it? They fair pretty damn well because they have ranged harrass, good utility, and escape tools. Then you have Carry ands awesome kill lane. The whole point is some of the best Solo top Champs ARE AD carries.
*ranged AD. Graves/Vayne top is perfectly viable.
The issue with trynd/riven, is that they aren't tanky enough to melee turrets in a 5v5 siege. (Though you can get already this somewhat, but it's a lot harder to play than having a ranged AD.)
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On February 28 2012 16:06 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:59 Nehsb wrote:On February 28 2012 15:51 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 15:02 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:50 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:40 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:38 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 14:28 Slaughter wrote:On February 28 2012 14:22 iCanada wrote:On February 28 2012 13:58 Slaughter wrote:
I know this is probably silly but GD is for people throwing out ideas and letting people call them dumb right? :D
Anyways this is just me thinking about team comps and I have heard that things like 4 protect 1 carry were used once upon a time. Why has this fallen off? If a team was just crazy cc heavy and spaced their cc correctly wouldn't it still be good? If you force the other team into running a lot of cleanse/buying qss then you forced them to use up a slot that could otherwise be spent on something else. So what about a team comp that had 3 of the CC bots on it like Leona/Naut/Galio/Sej/Mumu/etc and then having like cass mid. Thats a fuck ton of cc a team has to deal with and not everyone of the cc bots have to build super tanky and can be hybrids to do a bit more dmg. Or would qss and people running cleanse be that easy to counter this? I know people talk about being spread out in fights when vs these comps but can you really be THAT spread out in many portions of the map? Also if you have that many aoe disables then you could immobilize multiple people multiple times or have people take different "portions" of the team or just use it to catch people all the time.
I'm not sure QSS would be enough alone even if everyone on the opposite team has it it only removes effects and not future ones. Cleanse does but only for 3 seconds and forcing multiple opponents to take it seems like an advantage for you.
Thoughts? It still puts all your eggs in one basket... which is the whole reason why it stopped being used in favour of the more popular 2 carries, 2 semi carries, and a support model. Your Carry doesn't get farmed and you just lose. So what the other team do? just focus on getting your carry not farmed, and you lose. Doesn't matter if you Sej farmed when your Kog'Maw is the only one that can kill things. If you had good jungle support on your two "carry" lanes would it not be ok? I don't see how it would be possible to hard deny farm to both lanes with a carry. I mean with a jungle presence it wouldn't allow hardcore zoning of your carry lane (Cass can farm ezpz without having too many bad match ups) and your top can just farm and not get himself killed. I know some top champs can get out of control but CC will shutdown anyone if you have enough of it. This isn't a 4 protect-1 carry scenario but a derivative of it with 3 protects and two carries (one AP (Cass who also has cc) and an AD). Or supplant the protect who jungles with someone who can have strong jungle control. ... Isn't that pretty much what everyone does now? Typically you have a Carry bot with a "protect" then a Jungler who goes around a) securing objectives and b) helping lanes... and then you have a bruiser top who is getting farm so thsat they can effectively peel for the carry late game. I lost mang. I guess it is except instead of having a bruiser top and a support bot you have two tanks. Half the supports ARE tanks, and realistically you get a bruiser farmed so they can initiate and peel like a tank would anyway... only really difference is that a bruiser can deal deeps and has slightly less CC. /shrug True enough. I know it was rather silly but I just like to think about team comps that are not part of the current meta. And not silly/troll/niche ones but ones that could potentially shift to the "norm" (although at the elo I play at half the games don't follow the meta anyway). I really need to watch more "high level" games to see how things are done "the correct way" I think solo Q and normals have severely warped my idea of how the game is played at a high level because even reading about how to play correctly doesn't do it for me because people on both teams react differently to things at my level then they do at high elo. Thanks for bearing with me through this though Speaking of which, I never understood why people don't go double bruiser lanes bot when a carry such as Tryndamere, Poppy or Riven is taken top. You know you have a carry that is gonna get tons farm top, so why take another carry? Just makes you team squishier. Thing is, you run something like Blitzcrank/Sion or Fiddle/Leona bot lane you get that tankier team comp AND you can completely zone the enemies AD carry. Realistically I don't think they'd even be able to farm because these cahmps are so good at catching you out of position (say, trying to last hit) and killing stuff while also being reasonably effective lategame with minimal/split farm. Maybe I manage to convince my 5s team to try it out with me sometime... Without an AD carry, it's usually much harder to take down towers. If you don't win the lane hard, in my experience you can't end the game (unless you're so far ahead you can just dive) and eventually lategame hits and their ad carry is really strong. But Tryndamere and Riven ARE AD carries... o.o I feel like you have never seen a Tryn/Riven attack a tower before. Hell, you could even put like a Graves/Vayne top. Have you ever tried it? They fair pretty damn well because they have ranged harrass, good utility, and escape tools. Then you have Carry ands awesome kill lane. The whole point is some of the best Solo top Champs ARE AD carries.
It's more about attacking a tower without being in danger. Kill lanes are nice when you have people on the enemy team who don't know how to play against it, but when you have two enemies that ward the lane brush and stand behind minions, and don't engage in fights full health vs full health 2v2 then your lane scales much worse. In short you're relying on your enemies being bad rather than on yourself being good. I've seen awesome blitz.. I think these are people who main blitz, just win lanes... but the average blitz just can't hit the hooks needed to guarantee a successful kill lane.
With regards to downing towers, AP carries destroy towers at maybe half the speed of AD carries since AD have better attack speed. Only supports and ryze can't hurt towers.
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On February 28 2012 16:02 overt wrote:Tryndamere wins. Talon can win too. Trynd can just straight up kill Nid if she does something wrong, he can clear waves pretty quick, heals up quickly, and Nid can't stop Trynd from farming which means that at a certain point Tryndamere gets to his god-like state. Talon loses early but W clears pretty fast once you get a few levels and his silence really hurts her. With a good/well timed gank Talon can actually gib Nidalee. I don't play much top lane but I know that those two champions are kind of annoying as Nid. Talon less so during early levels and I think most Talons realized that he should go mid but if you do face him just know that you really really need to get an early advantage against him.
there is no way that talon can beat nidalee
nidalee will just auto-attack to victory from level 1, talon can't even approach her. plus talon is extremely vulnerable to ganks top lane. by the time that talon gets enough points in skills to do literally anything to nidalee (maybe level 4 or 5?) she'll be able to just heal it off like she does in every lane. additionally, with no true CC, talon has no chance to gank assist nidalee. her pounce is not affected by rake's slow, she can just wait to pounce while she's slowed so she loses no movespeed, not to mention brush movespeed passive OP top lane. jumping onto a level 6 nidalee is suicide anyway
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On February 28 2012 16:02 overt wrote:Tryndamere wins. Talon can win too. Trynd can just straight up kill Nid if she does something wrong, he can clear waves pretty quick, heals up quickly, and Nid can't stop Trynd from farming which means that at a certain point Tryndamere gets to his god-like state. Talon loses early but W clears pretty fast once you get a few levels and his silence really hurts her. With a good/well timed gank Talon can actually gib Nidalee. I don't play much top lane but I know that those two champions are kind of annoying as Nid. Talon less so during early levels and I think most Talons realized that he should go mid but if you do face him just know that you really really need to get an early advantage against him.
I think lee sin is a good pick vs her especially before her lvl 6. Otherwise id give renekton, yorrick and maybe chogath a try.
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He means ranged AD carries. Like someone posted before, the job of ranged ADs is to take down towers.
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On February 28 2012 16:13 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 16:02 overt wrote:On February 28 2012 15:55 arnath wrote:
What wins vs Nidalee in top? Tryndamere wins. Talon can win too. Trynd can just straight up kill Nid if she does something wrong, he can clear waves pretty quick, heals up quickly, and Nid can't stop Trynd from farming which means that at a certain point Tryndamere gets to his god-like state. Talon loses early but W clears pretty fast once you get a few levels and his silence really hurts her. With a good/well timed gank Talon can actually gib Nidalee. I don't play much top lane but I know that those two champions are kind of annoying as Nid. Talon less so during early levels and I think most Talons realized that he should go mid but if you do face him just know that you really really need to get an early advantage against him. I think lee sin is a good pick vs her especially before her lvl 6. Otherwise id give renekton, yorrick and maybe chogath a try.
I'd think irelia would kick her ass too. Q on her, E, W, win trade.
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On February 28 2012 15:59 Bambipwnsu wrote:
I just tuned into chaox's stream and it seems like he is commentating off of a replay of the crs vs dignitas games. Where can I find these replays? I can find the vods but itd be interesting to watch it off of a replay as well. Thanks
it's not a replay
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On February 28 2012 16:15 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 15:59 Bambipwnsu wrote:
I just tuned into chaox's stream and it seems like he is commentating off of a replay of the crs vs dignitas games. Where can I find these replays? I can find the vods but itd be interesting to watch it off of a replay as well. Thanks it's not a replay
Thanks...I don't know why I didn't notice the huge emblems of CRS at the bottom haha.
On a side note, why does no one try jungle taric?
Ive been trying it out and I think its really underrated. First off you can start a dorans blade, running 25% attack speed in runes or something along those lines. You start with like 7 or 8 health bars lvl 1, 58 armor off aura, and the initial clear is around 4 minutes with no leash.
You can start just like ww with a short sword + pot as well. The ganks are very nice, and are very strong and frequent past lvl 6 as well. The CD is approx a minute?
You come into lane, stun shield bash and even heal your lanes. And being relatively poor due to jungle, his 30 armor aura, 70 ad / ap aura, innate tankyness, great ganks, very decent clear...im wondering why he isnt being used.
Any opinions on this?
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On February 28 2012 16:25 Bambipwnsu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 16:15 UniversalSnip wrote:On February 28 2012 15:59 Bambipwnsu wrote:
I just tuned into chaox's stream and it seems like he is commentating off of a replay of the crs vs dignitas games. Where can I find these replays? I can find the vods but itd be interesting to watch it off of a replay as well. Thanks it's not a replay Thanks...I don't know why I didn't notice the huge emblems of CRS at the bottom haha. On a side note, why does no one try jungle taric? Ive been trying it out and I think its really underrated. First off you can start a dorans blade, running 25% attack speed in runes or something along those lines. You start with like 7 or 8 health bars lvl 1, 58 armor off aura, and the initial clear is around 4 minutes with no leash. You can start just like ww with a short sword + pot as well. The ganks are very nice, and are very strong and frequent past lvl 6 as well. The CD is approx a minute? You come into lane, stun shield bash and even heal your lanes. And being relatively poor due to jungle, his 30 armor aura, 70 ad / ap aura, innate tankyness, great ganks, very decent clear...im wondering why he isnt being used. Any opinions on this?
You can do all of that as sion except with more damage since you aren't putting points into a heal.
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On February 28 2012 16:28 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 16:25 Bambipwnsu wrote:On February 28 2012 16:15 UniversalSnip wrote:On February 28 2012 15:59 Bambipwnsu wrote:
I just tuned into chaox's stream and it seems like he is commentating off of a replay of the crs vs dignitas games. Where can I find these replays? I can find the vods but itd be interesting to watch it off of a replay as well. Thanks it's not a replay Thanks...I don't know why I didn't notice the huge emblems of CRS at the bottom haha. On a side note, why does no one try jungle taric? Ive been trying it out and I think its really underrated. First off you can start a dorans blade, running 25% attack speed in runes or something along those lines. You start with like 7 or 8 health bars lvl 1, 58 armor off aura, and the initial clear is around 4 minutes with no leash. You can start just like ww with a short sword + pot as well. The ganks are very nice, and are very strong and frequent past lvl 6 as well. The CD is approx a minute? You come into lane, stun shield bash and even heal your lanes. And being relatively poor due to jungle, his 30 armor aura, 70 ad / ap aura, innate tankyness, great ganks, very decent clear...im wondering why he isnt being used. Any opinions on this? You can do all of that as sion except with more damage since you aren't putting points into a heal.
The initial clear of sion is really slow :3. Just did it again and its like 4:15 first clear. On taric I just put 1 point into heal at lvl 2 and it lets me stay full hp with a dorans. the 70 ad/ap and 30 armor aura is not negligeable in teamfights...as well as taric ganks being stronger than sion ones post lvl 6.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
is this KoF13 music on scarra's stream? also why am i getting the neverending google ad D:
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EPT
