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[Patch 1.0.0.133: Ziggs] General Discussion - Page 105

Forum Index > LoL General
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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place.

Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch.

Thanks.
Neo, 31.01.12
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 08 2012 01:36 GMT
#2081
Soniv, ghandi, 5hit, hal and I all did an ice team once. The results were chilling.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 02:24:34
February 08 2012 01:44 GMT
#2082
VOD PLEASE?

I'd like to see what having someone be the minimum movespeed in the game would look like.

On the same strain does anyone have a vod of jungle mundo using spell vamp? Stonewall updated his jungle tiers and moved mundo up because people recently discovered spell vamp jungle mundo.

I did some math though. At level 1 Blue camp has like 2000 life, so if half his damage comes from abilities he will heal from blue 2000*.06*.5 = 60 life, not even enough to pay for his spells. I really don't believe that he sustains well enough to be able to gank effectively or to even sustain himself in the jungle. I think lifesteal would actually sustain better.

The featured jungle mundo guide (no spell vamp) on solomid features a mundo that almost dies in at least 2 of his own ganks, and then gets below 100 to jungle creeps 3 times. He got so lucky that game. I still don't think jungle mundo is viable if he's maxing W.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
February 08 2012 02:11 GMT
#2083
I know how to carry a game as a support moreso than with any other role. idgi. The vast majority of the ranked games I win are the ones I play support in. There are a variety of reasons why this is so, but I can't deny anymore that the role that gives me the most consistent results is support.
Zelc
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
129 Posts
February 08 2012 02:16 GMT
#2084
The tears in this blog post are so hilarious.

I can't believe someone can get THAT riled up over this. LoL and SC2 are both fun games to watch and both require plenty of skill (of different types) to play competitively. Can't people just accept this?

Destiny responded in page 3.
Bwaaaa
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia969 Posts
February 08 2012 02:16 GMT
#2085
Remember that smite also works off spell vamp so add the to your calculations hidden.
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 02:24:09
February 08 2012 02:21 GMT
#2086
On February 08 2012 11:16 Bwaaaa wrote:
Remember that smite also works off spell vamp so add the to your calculations hidden.

445*.06 = 26.7 life at level 1 smite with the spell vamp quints.
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
February 08 2012 02:32 GMT
#2087
On February 08 2012 11:16 Zelc wrote:
The tears in this blog post are so hilarious.

I can't believe someone can get THAT riled up over this. LoL and SC2 are both fun games to watch and both require plenty of skill (of different types) to play competitively. Can't people just accept this?

Destiny responded in page 3.

My two cents on this are that SC2 is DEFINITELY harder than LoL but to say that LoL takes no skill is a huge stretch.

If LoL took no skill, I don't think there would be a competitive scene and a ranked ladder in which casual players cannot climb to the top simply by playing a lot of games.

A lot of people say DOTA 2 is harder than LoL. My friends who play both say that is the case. That may be true, I don't know.

But even if DOTA 2 and SC2 are harder than LoL, it is STILL a huge stretch to say that LoL requires NO SKILL. My friend was on a DOTA pro team and he's 1600 on solo queue NA. Hypothetically if LoL took no skill he should easily be at the top of the LoL ladder.
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
February 08 2012 02:44 GMT
#2088
On February 08 2012 11:32 Kyo Yuy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 11:16 Zelc wrote:
The tears in this blog post are so hilarious.

I can't believe someone can get THAT riled up over this. LoL and SC2 are both fun games to watch and both require plenty of skill (of different types) to play competitively. Can't people just accept this?

Destiny responded in page 3.

My two cents on this are that SC2 is DEFINITELY harder than LoL but to say that LoL takes no skill is a huge stretch.

If LoL took no skill, I don't think there would be a competitive scene and a ranked ladder in which casual players cannot climb to the top simply by playing a lot of games.

A lot of people say DOTA 2 is harder than LoL. My friends who play both say that is the case. That may be true, I don't know.

But even if DOTA 2 and SC2 are harder than LoL, it is STILL a huge stretch to say that LoL requires NO SKILL. My friend was on a DOTA pro team and he's 1600 on solo queue NA. Hypothetically if LoL took no skill he should easily be at the top of the LoL ladder.


Only angry fanboys like to throw out the "your game takes no skill" line to players of another game.

I play LoL. I know DotA2 is more mechanically challenging. SC2/BW above that.
Doesn't mean I enjoy this game any less.

Such angry tears...
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Ym1r
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1164 Posts
February 08 2012 02:45 GMT
#2089
I doubt your friend was on a dota pro team if he can only edge out 1600. Mechanics and game sense easily transfer over to League, and that's at the very least good enough to get you to 1800 (as a pro).
im ji geum - ellin - eunji - spica - a pink - naeun - sojinyura - HAERYUNG<3 - Red Velvet
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17239 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 02:48:01
February 08 2012 02:47 GMT
#2090
You're not going to find people who have the knowledge, experience, and objectiveness to measure difficulty in different games, especially across different genres, and then articulate it in a way that will actually be convincing to people; it's an exercise in futility.

Every time comparisons start getting made between competitive games, it devolves into a pissing contest about which game is "better," with everyone who has a vested interest in one side basing "better" off the factors that support their choice and marginalizing or dismissing the factors that don't. Examples: Prize pool, number of viewers, living conditions of players, "mechanical difficulty" (e.g. APM), and so forth.

Ultimately, you should just ignore people who want to argue which is better or try to pretend that none of them take skill. It's a waste of energy.
twitch.tv/cratonz
starfries
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada3508 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 03:06:56
February 08 2012 02:51 GMT
#2091
Everyone has their own idea of what it means to say a game "takes skill" so it's pretty pointless to argue either way, unless you start by laying down an exact definition of skill.

One thing I think that's somewhat relevant though is that strategically LoL is much less well understood than SC2 and BW. This is probably both due to the rapidly changing landscape because of the constant patches and champion releases, and also the difficulty of experimentation (in solo queue the best you're going to get is a nonstandard pick for a standard role, or a troll team all around, when you really need full coordination from your team). Compared to the meticulous build order research of BW pros when developing a new strategy, what I've seen from LoL pros is usually "I think it's viable" followed by a halfhearted attempt in solo queue (e.g. Saint's support Heimer). So whether or not LoL actually has more strategic depth than SC2, there is at least more unexplored territory.

also for me (and most other players) it doesn't matter which one of LoL, SC2 or BW has the highest skillcap, because let's be honest, I fucking suck at all three games and am nowhere near that point.
DJ – do you like ramen, Savior? Savior – not really. Bisu – I eat it often. Flash – I’m a maniac! | Foxer Fighting!
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31494 Posts
February 08 2012 02:54 GMT
#2092
On February 08 2012 11:44 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2012 11:32 Kyo Yuy wrote:
On February 08 2012 11:16 Zelc wrote:
The tears in this blog post are so hilarious.

I can't believe someone can get THAT riled up over this. LoL and SC2 are both fun games to watch and both require plenty of skill (of different types) to play competitively. Can't people just accept this?

Destiny responded in page 3.

My two cents on this are that SC2 is DEFINITELY harder than LoL but to say that LoL takes no skill is a huge stretch.

If LoL took no skill, I don't think there would be a competitive scene and a ranked ladder in which casual players cannot climb to the top simply by playing a lot of games.

A lot of people say DOTA 2 is harder than LoL. My friends who play both say that is the case. That may be true, I don't know.

But even if DOTA 2 and SC2 are harder than LoL, it is STILL a huge stretch to say that LoL requires NO SKILL. My friend was on a DOTA pro team and he's 1600 on solo queue NA. Hypothetically if LoL took no skill he should easily be at the top of the LoL ladder.


Only angry fanboys like to throw out the "your game takes no skill" line to players of another game.

I play LoL. I know DotA2 is more mechanically challenging. SC2/BW above that.
Doesn't mean I enjoy this game any less.

Such angry tears...

Yeah honestly...considering this argument has been going on for months and months now on this website and every other, you'd thing people would learn not to take the troll bait.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Ryalnos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1946 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 03:03:11
February 08 2012 03:02 GMT
#2093
I think it's undeniable that Dota2/SC2 are respectively more mechanically challenging. But LoL being more mechanically challenging than SC2 is not what Destiny was claiming at all as is clear from his post...
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
February 08 2012 03:02 GMT
#2094
I just always find the SC2 v. LoL v. DotA2 fights so funny considering a couple years ago it was all about BW v. SC2. Oh the irony.
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
February 08 2012 03:03 GMT
#2095
What really sucks is the fact that people would much rather have one game be the DOMINANT ESPORT because ALL OTHER GAMES TAKE NO SKILL.

Can you imagine if the Olympics was nothing but Basketball?

I wish people would realize that the greater the number of games that become eSports, the higher the chance of eSports becoming more mainstream, more popular, and more recognized on a public scale.
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
February 08 2012 03:06 GMT
#2096
On February 08 2012 12:03 Kyo Yuy wrote:
What really sucks is the fact that people would much rather have one game be the DOMINANT ESPORT because ALL OTHER GAMES TAKE NO SKILL.

Can you imagine if the Olympics was nothing but Basketball?

I wish people would realize that the greater the number of games that become eSports, the higher the chance of eSports becoming more mainstream, more popular, and more recognized on a public scale.

ESPECIALLY if its a game that doesnt have a stupidly high learning curve like SC
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
February 08 2012 03:08 GMT
#2097
I think it's very hard to argue that DotA/LoL are the most mechanically demanding of all esports, but DotA/LoL are, imo, more strategically difficult than SC2 simply because there's so many more variables due to having 10 people in a game at once.

Between DotA and LoL, I'd have to say DotA is much more figured out and developed and has much more depth than LoL atm, but LoL strategies are developing quite fast. I see that debate similar to BW v. SC2 tbh.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
February 08 2012 03:13 GMT
#2098
You'll get morons like that in all games. Even SC:BW fanatics were the same way when SC2 came out. :/
People play games for fun. Who gives a shit what someone thinks about your game. I don't really like many FPS games, but you don't see me going on a moronic crusade against people because they play them. People like different things.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-08 03:29:24
February 08 2012 03:22 GMT
#2099
my 2 cents on x game vs y game debate:

IMO, what constitutes a competitive game is down to 1 thing, viewers. If a game has a large following of tournaments, casted games, etc, then it is a competitive game, and no more or less competitive than any other existing esport (you can argue grey areas of viewership but w/e). When it comes down to it, however, even if fucking speed-runs to level 20 on skyrim somehow became competitive and massively popular, there isn't a single person that has the right to say that it somehow doesn't deserve to be an esport. Rail on the game as much as you want, but saying that LoL doesn't deserve to be on the same level as SC2 is total bullshit.

edit: so tl:dr, who gives a shit which game requires 'more skill'. I could talk about how soccer requires 1000000x more skill than baseball, but that changes nothing for people who enjoy and play baseball, so you might as well talk to a wall.

edit2: i just realized i'm really preaching to the choir here, dunno why i got so upset, lol
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
February 08 2012 03:30 GMT
#2100
yes, skill ceiling may be different for each game, but lets face it. No one is fucking close to reaching skill ceiling for ANY of these games, so everyone can shut the fuck up about, "oh this game is tougher than this game".
liftlift > tsm
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