EPTIt's tough, and the longer Riot doesn't do anything the worse the problem is going to get, but there's plenty of solutions to test out. I just hope whichever one they decide on goes better than New Jungle v1.0.
[Patch 1.0.0.132: Sejuani] General Discussion - Page 108
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
It's tough, and the longer Riot doesn't do anything the worse the problem is going to get, but there's plenty of solutions to test out. I just hope whichever one they decide on goes better than New Jungle v1.0. | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:50 Craton wrote: I'd like to see AD carries have their power level compressed a bit. A little stronger early, less rape-everything-in-sight at 6 items. Problem with that is that for example graves with a nice E into Q combo already blows up a support as it is at lvl2. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:29 mordek wrote: I'm going to guess the player base that plays vs. bots is larger than the group that analyzes replays  Bot match queue time at any hour of the day, any hour, be it 1100, 1500, 0430 is less than 5 seconds. Any level, any server, tried them all. Normal q time on my lvl 30 acc is most of the time 1-2 minutes (EUW). While a bot match takes half the people a normal q needs to find, it seems quite popular still if the q times is any indicator. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
- They are impossible to burst. Whenever Soraka heals someone, they instantly have like 200 armor, so your ranged AD does no damage to them. - You can't outpush them. No matter what, Sivir or Graves, given infinite mana, will constantly have you lasthitting under your tower. - Soraka has the river warded, so your jungler can not do anything other than trying retarded ganks from their jungle with little probability of success. As a result, you're missing CS (I don't know anyone who can reliably take 100% CS under tower), you're behind when you try to contest a dragon since there's a creepwave at your door. Hell, you can't even send your support to ward because you either send him alone and get him killed or go together and watch the tower getting your creeps killed. I have no idea how to counter that, tbh. | ||
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Niton
United States2395 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:58 ihasaKAROT wrote: Problem with that is that for example graves with a nice E into Q combo already blows up a support as it is at lvl2. For what it's worth, this is countered by the support not having some godawful amount of armor. If the support wants 5.25 gold/10 from runes, that's their own perogative, but it does come at a price. at BluzMan: maybe something like sending an AD into a solo lane and Irelia bottom? Irelia's probably the best champion in the game at CSing under her own tower because of Bloodsurge, and her own passive healing makes her quite difficult to remove. I don't know who you'd run with her, but if you're concerned about CS and not dying she's a good choice. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:08 daemir wrote: Bot match queue time at any hour of the day, any hour, be it 1100, 1500, 0430 is less than 5 seconds. Any level, any server, tried them all. Normal q time on my lvl 30 acc is most of the time 1-2 minutes (EUW). While a bot match takes half the people a normal q needs to find, it seems quite popular still if the q times is any indicator. You're not really accounting for the fact that it only needs to find at most 4 players to match you with if you queue into co-op vs AI or the fact that there probably isn't any sort of Elo involved with co-op vs AI. I think Caitlyn does okay against push lane bot. Can push back some with Q. Super easy and safe to farm with cause her autos are so crisp. You really shouldn't have to farm under tower if you auto + Q enough. edit: I realize you'll go OOM cause they have Soraka but honestly what is your jungler doing if your lane is constantly pushed? | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:08 daemir wrote: Bot match queue time at any hour of the day, any hour, be it 1100, 1500, 0430 is less than 5 seconds. Any level, any server, tried them all. Normal q time on my lvl 30 acc is most of the time 1-2 minutes (EUW). While a bot match takes half the people a normal q needs to find, it seems quite popular still if the q times is any indicator. My bot queues are like 30+ seconds. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:25 overt wrote: You're not really accounting for the fact that it only needs to find at most 4 players to match you with if you queue into co-op vs AI or the fact that there probably isn't any sort of Elo involved with co-op vs AI. I think Caitlyn does okay against push lane bot. Can push back some with Q. Super easy and safe to farm with cause her autos are so crisp. You really shouldn't have to farm under tower if you auto + Q enough. edit: I realize you'll go OOM cause they have Soraka but honestly what is your jungler doing if your lane is constantly pushed? | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On January 25 2012 17:50 Craton wrote: I'd like to see AD carries have their power level compressed a bit. A little stronger early, less rape-everything-in-sight at 6 items. AD carries in general are already the strongest earlygame champs back when they were still solo laners, AD carries consistently beat mages in lane. too much sustained dps. and that was way before people learned to optimize damage. people still ran like double mp5/level blues/yellows lol. AD carries need to be MUCH weaker early game tbh and i'm nearly positive that's the next step riot's going to take to change the meta to something less boring and stagnant | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:08 daemir wrote: Bot match queue time at any hour of the day, any hour, be it 1100, 1500, 0430 is less than 5 seconds. Any level, any server, tried them all. Normal q time on my lvl 30 acc is most of the time 1-2 minutes (EUW). While a bot match takes half the people a normal q needs to find, it seems quite popular still if the q times is any indicator. there's no elo for coop vs ai, only levels are being taken into account here | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
anyone else feel the same? Also, fuck ryze, that guy's invincible once he has his items. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:40 Kaniol wrote: there's no elo for coop vs ai, only levels are being taken into account here Are you sure it even accounts for levels? I'm pretty sure I've ended up with bunch of level 1-5s often as 30 and with some 30s as <10 In any case, bottom line is, it's rather popular, so yea, why riot would not do something for that game mode too for a change. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:25 overt wrote: You're not really accounting for the fact that it only needs to find at most 4 players to match you with if you queue into co-op vs AI or the fact that there probably isn't any sort of Elo involved with co-op vs AI. I think Caitlyn does okay against push lane bot. Can push back some with Q. Super easy and safe to farm with cause her autos are so crisp. You really shouldn't have to farm under tower if you auto + Q enough. edit: I realize you'll go OOM cause they have Soraka but honestly what is your jungler doing if your lane is constantly pushed? Soraka only has to invest into wards to make ganks unfeasible. Let's imagine they are on the blue side and the only reliable gank path from your jungler is from the blue buff or straight from mid. Now with river warded all the time his only opportunity is ganking from lane (possible only with shaco, post-6 nocturne and maybe rammus) or ganking from their jungle. Needless to say, the latter is a huge risk since, with your lane pushed to your tower, you won't be able to help him if he gets busted. "Your lane is pushed" pretty much equals "You can't leave it without missing a lot of creeps and taking tower damage". What I think of is that you could possibly get a very early oracle and counter that lane explicitly with counterwarding, but then again, oracle is expensive and the only thing you have achieved is just breaking even, not exactly winning it, this time opening yourself to jungle ganks. Still not a solution, besides, I can't think of people being that well-coordinated in solo Q anyway. | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
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Mondieu
Romania803 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:08 BluzMan wrote: Okay, this might be noobish, but how do you stop a botlane with a strong pusher & soraka bot (real scenario are Sivir/Soraka and Graves/Soraka)? I'm like 100% frustrated because: - They are impossible to burst. Whenever Soraka heals someone, they instantly have like 200 armor, so your ranged AD does no damage to them. - You can't outpush them. No matter what, Sivir or Graves, given infinite mana, will constantly have you lasthitting under your tower. - Soraka has the river warded, so your jungler can not do anything other than trying retarded ganks from their jungle with little probability of success. As a result, you're missing CS (I don't know anyone who can reliably take 100% CS under tower), you're behind when you try to contest a dragon since there's a creepwave at your door. Hell, you can't even send your support to ward because you either send him alone and get him killed or go together and watch the tower getting your creeps killed. I have no idea how to counter that, tbh. I never have problems as Tristana against any Soraka/X duo unlessit's ashe and that is when we make peace and just afk farm. You have to control the bush a bit, have your support harass their soraka all the time. If their soraka stays in the back as she should be then it's 2v1 whenver they try to harass you. When soraka comes into range force a trade, but go for soraka as well. So basically when soraka heals someone switch for soraka. Keep both of them low on HP and they won't dare to harass you. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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kuresuti
1393 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:42 wei2coolman wrote: So I was playing Vlad cause freeweek, and the buffs he got. He's strong as fuck in midgame, but I just feel his power curve drops A LOT at late game. He just can't keep up with other AP carries in terms of damage dealt. anyone else feel the same? Also, fuck ryze, that guy's invincible once he has his items. His E at 4 stacks does a lot of damage. In a real fight the enemy team won't all be sitting there taking it though, so yeah I agree. I've only played for like a month, but he is one of my favorite champions so far, a lot of fun! | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On January 25 2012 18:42 wei2coolman wrote: So I was playing Vlad cause freeweek, and the buffs he got. He's strong as fuck in midgame, but I just feel his power curve drops A LOT at late game. He just can't keep up with other AP carries in terms of damage dealt. anyone else feel the same? Also, fuck ryze, that guy's invincible once he has his items. vlad doesn't dps like cassiopeia but makes up for it by being able to be really tanky. he keeps up, just differently. that and a lot of aoe | ||
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