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Public Service AnnouncementUse the Champion threads whenever appropriate. Don't use General Discussion simply out of ease. ===== If you want to whine about server lag, use the QQ thread. We all suffer alike when Riot servers kaput. No need to make a post about it in GD. |
On January 25 2012 07:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
literally every single time i hear riot criticized for resource allocation, if they respond, it's with "well those resources aren't really compatible, we couldn't just shift production from x to y, and anyway adding on more people wouldn't help, we would just dump resources on it if we could." at the same time it's being implied that each project is at the maximum useful investment cap there's this excuse constantly coming up that, well, riot is a very young company and resource strapped and they just don't have many people to devote to features. Very odd disconnect.
http://www.riotgames.com/careers/job-openings-0
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On January 25 2012 07:14 phyvo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:03 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On January 25 2012 06:01 Terranasaur wrote:
I dunno. I've always kind of liked that feature. It keeps them from being severely gimped after you kill them a bunch of times in lane. Bot games are basically a race to see if you can rack up enough kills before Annie-Bot gets stonk enough to one shot you and Cho Gath bot becomes unkillable. lol. You'd think that with 20-40 kills worth of gold you could kill anything. My bot games are approaching my normal wins fairly quickly now (evidently I'd rather herp a derp than play serious) but the only way Annie bot can kill you after 20-40 kills is really if you go glass cannon like everyone does. Like if you go Sejuana instead and stack warmogs it's hilarious how you can 1v5 the bots repeatedly and kill them with few/no damage items because of your enormous level advantage. Or you can play Kayle and shield yourself every single time. Edit: Offhand, click the gears in the upper right of the pvp.net client and you can turn off the lobby music.
Glass cannon works great so long as you know how to drop aggro on your allies. If you don't attack the AI they won't attack you if somebody else is around attacking ^_^ If my AI loss counter stops being 0 with this update, I will be extremely disappointed. There have already been some games where my team tries to lose the game and I have to carry 1v5 ^_^ I just want my 150 bonus IP guaranteed quickly after all and this is the most efficient way I know. I can't handle tryharding in normals and losing 
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On January 25 2012 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
So ya. Your S class players are Salce, Saintvicious, Chaox and Xpecial.
I can't agree with Salce pick because he simply hasn't played in any big tournies lately. EG has been more or less absent from the last 2-3 big prize pool tourneys due to whatever reason. Last time I saw him play he did good, but wasn't anything overly amazing.
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On January 25 2012 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
So I was thinking about this as I spent 5 hours in a car today: who are the actual S class players in LoL ATM?
Luckily, 5 hours was enough to actually answer this question. I limited it to NA simply because I dont know enough about EU to make an adequate determination. My list is also completely subjective, but also completely accurate because I said so.
So, without further ado:
Top Lane: No one. Literally. There is not a single S class top laner in NA. Every single one is SEVERELY flawed. HSGG has a champ pool that consists of Cho at this point, and goes derp mode every 10 seconds. TRM, is, well, TRM. Voyboy is solid but not nearly over the top enough to actually consider putting him up there. Dyrus is probably the most complete of any of them, but his early game is just not strong enough (even though he is the best late game out of all of them)
Mid: Salce. Hands down most consistent AP in NA, not to mention the fact that he is also the only player who can and does consistently win mid against the other top players. Regi is close, but his cass ults singlehandedly knocked him from contention. Jiji still needs to work on his mobility in the laning phase, and Scarra and NyJackie are both solid, but not on the same level as Salce.
Jungle: Saintvicious. Put CDE on his back in Korea. Has the best champion pool of anyone. Can instantly shift between carry and support jungles, can counterjungle the best of anyone in NA, and also deals with counterjunging the best. For reference, I think that Jatt when Dignitas was in form was probably S class as well, but he is retired. TOO proved that he struggles with invasion, knock him off his game and he dissapears. Dan Dinh, IWillDominate, and Lapakaa all not on that level.
Bot lane: No splitting ad and support. Its nearly impossible to separate where the ad leaves off and the support picks up, and vise versa. That being said, Chaox and Xpecial are the only S class in NA (and also IMO the best bot lane in the world). Xpecial is the best support in the scene atm, and Chaox meshes extremely well with him, and most importantly, can snowball very hard off of a lane Xpecial sets up for him to win. Double and Chauster suffer from the fact that Double is a strategic moron and Chauster is new to support. West and Nyat havent played enough together recently. Qtpie and L0cust probably the next most solid bot lane in NA behind the TSM bot both in terms of overall level of play and consistency.
So ya. Your S class players are Salce, Saintvicious, Chaox and Xpecial.
If we don't limit to NA I'd suggest Darien as the best solo top, imo the most impressive player in M5 by far and I can't understand why it wasn't him who got the MVP award >_> Either way I haven't seen him lose a lane yet, I'm not sure if that game vs TSM with double first blood should count
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On January 25 2012 07:47 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
So I was thinking about this as I spent 5 hours in a car today: who are the actual S class players in LoL ATM?
Luckily, 5 hours was enough to actually answer this question. I limited it to NA simply because I dont know enough about EU to make an adequate determination. My list is also completely subjective, but also completely accurate because I said so.
So, without further ado:
Top Lane: No one. Literally. There is not a single S class top laner in NA. Every single one is SEVERELY flawed. HSGG has a champ pool that consists of Cho at this point, and goes derp mode every 10 seconds. TRM, is, well, TRM. Voyboy is solid but not nearly over the top enough to actually consider putting him up there. Dyrus is probably the most complete of any of them, but his early game is just not strong enough (even though he is the best late game out of all of them)
Mid: Salce. Hands down most consistent AP in NA, not to mention the fact that he is also the only player who can and does consistently win mid against the other top players. Regi is close, but his cass ults singlehandedly knocked him from contention. Jiji still needs to work on his mobility in the laning phase, and Scarra and NyJackie are both solid, but not on the same level as Salce.
Jungle: Saintvicious. Put CDE on his back in Korea. Has the best champion pool of anyone. Can instantly shift between carry and support jungles, can counterjungle the best of anyone in NA, and also deals with counterjunging the best. For reference, I think that Jatt when Dignitas was in form was probably S class as well, but he is retired. TOO proved that he struggles with invasion, knock him off his game and he dissapears. Dan Dinh, IWillDominate, and Lapakaa all not on that level.
Bot lane: No splitting ad and support. Its nearly impossible to separate where the ad leaves off and the support picks up, and vise versa. That being said, Chaox and Xpecial are the only S class in NA (and also IMO the best bot lane in the world). Xpecial is the best support in the scene atm, and Chaox meshes extremely well with him, and most importantly, can snowball very hard off of a lane Xpecial sets up for him to win. Double and Chauster suffer from the fact that Double is a strategic moron and Chauster is new to support. West and Nyat havent played enough together recently. Qtpie and L0cust probably the next most solid bot lane in NA behind the TSM bot both in terms of overall level of play and consistency.
So ya. Your S class players are Salce, Saintvicious, Chaox and Xpecial. If we don't limit to NA I'd suggest Darien as the best solo top, imo the most impressive player in M5 by far and I can't understand why it wasn't him who got the MVP award >_> Either way I haven't seen him lose a lane yet, I'm not sure if that game vs TSM with double first blood should count
I don't think we've seen enough of M5 or the other upcoming team Mtl.tt to make a good judgement on how good they are compared to other top EU/NA/KR teams.
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On January 25 2012 06:18 Cloud9157 wrote:
Ehh, I don't think bots will actually be able to challenge teams with actual communication. I also never bought a single ward vs bots either.
Hopefully they will jungle and learn that there are important objectives like dragon+baron.
Have you ever been on the receiving end of a bot chain CC? That's like M5 level coordination right there 
On January 25 2012 07:30 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 07:14 phyvo wrote:On January 25 2012 06:03 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On January 25 2012 06:01 Terranasaur wrote:
I dunno. I've always kind of liked that feature. It keeps them from being severely gimped after you kill them a bunch of times in lane. Bot games are basically a race to see if you can rack up enough kills before Annie-Bot gets stonk enough to one shot you and Cho Gath bot becomes unkillable. lol. You'd think that with 20-40 kills worth of gold you could kill anything. My bot games are approaching my normal wins fairly quickly now (evidently I'd rather herp a derp than play serious) but the only way Annie bot can kill you after 20-40 kills is really if you go glass cannon like everyone does. Like if you go Sejuana instead and stack warmogs it's hilarious how you can 1v5 the bots repeatedly and kill them with few/no damage items because of your enormous level advantage. Or you can play Kayle and shield yourself every single time. Edit: Offhand, click the gears in the upper right of the pvp.net client and you can turn off the lobby music. Glass cannon works great so long as you know how to drop aggro on your allies. If you don't attack the AI they won't attack you if somebody else is around attacking ^_^ If my AI loss counter stops being 0 with this update, I will be extremely disappointed. There have already been some games where my team tries to lose the game and I have to carry 1v5 ^_^ I just want my 150 bonus IP guaranteed quickly after all and this is the most efficient way I know. I can't handle tryharding in normals and losing
I find dominion games pretty good, since they go so fast.
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Why would you include EU when two_down specifically said "in NA."
Why do we care about EU when we're comparing NA players. Inversely, why would we care about NA players if two_down made the same type of list for EU. Relevance, bro.
I agree with your analysis though, T_D. Dyrus is really close to an S class top, but he's just not quite there yet. He has really great play though in general and I hope he can improve just slightly to become that S class player I know he should be. :3
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On January 25 2012 07:10 UniversalSnip wrote:
literally every single time i hear riot criticized for resource allocation, if they respond, it's with "well those resources aren't really compatible, we couldn't just shift production from x to y, and anyway adding on more people wouldn't help, we would just dump resources on it if we could." at the same time it's being implied that each project is at the maximum useful investment cap there's this excuse constantly coming up that, well, riot is a very young company and resource strapped and they just don't have many people to devote to features. Very odd disconnect.
And everytime someone criticizes Riot for resource allocation they seem to assume Riot could release <insert feature here> tomorrow if they just dedicated all their resources to that instead of skins/champions/bot AI/Phreak's blinking. /hyperbole
If you really want the culprit behind replays taking so long BlackPaladin's guess is probably far closer than any resource allocation choices. It may not be Adobe Air specifically, but Riot's original code for the game was most likely very messy and cleaning that up post-launch is nightmarish. That's not an excuse, just an observation.
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On January 25 2012 07:57 BlackPaladin wrote:
Why would you include EU when two_down specifically said "in NA."
Why do we care about EU when we're comparing NA players. Inversely, why would we care about NA players if two_down made the same type of list for EU. Relevance, bro.
I agree with your analysis though, T_D. Dyrus is really close to an S class top, but he's just not quite there yet. He has really great play though in general and I hope he can improve just slightly to become that S class player I know he should be. :3
I think if epik actually practiced, he'd be s-class easily. He doesn't have the teamwork that say Darien has.
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S class in eu is probably:
Toplane: Wickd, Angush, Darien (no not kevin zenon lol)
Mid: Froggen, Xpeke, Alex Ich
Bot: Lamia/Melissan ( Candy/Nyph should have been there but after seeing how awfully Candy played in Kiev, I dunno if I would consider them S class at this present leveL)
Jungle: Snoopeh, Diamondprox ( I would love to put Cyanide here but he seems really really off after the new jungle changes for some reason)
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Bit off topic for a sec,
Just had a stroke of genius on how to fix Graves W.
Turn it into+ Show Spoiler +Dark swarm,just with the addition that you can't attack from inside to the outside of the smoke like now as well.
BAM.Carry on.
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On January 25 2012 08:15 dooraven wrote:
S class in eu is probably:
Toplane: Wickd, Angush, Darien (no not kevin zenon lol)
Mid: Froggen, Xpeke, Alex Ich
Bot: Lamia/Melissan ( Candy/Nyph should have been there but after seeing how awfully Candy played in Kiev, I dunno if I would consider them S class at this present leveL)
Jungle: Snoopeh, Diamondprox ( I would love to put Cyanide here but he seems really really off after the new jungle changes for some reason)
WAAAYYYYY to many to be an S class list. You just listed everyone who was good. No thought whatsoever about who was the best of the best. If there are 3 s class mids, for example, then they are all A class. You cant have that many people without being willing/able to separate them. Same reason there isnt an S class top in NA. There are 4 good tops, but no separation.
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On January 25 2012 07:55 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 07:47 Shikyo wrote:On January 25 2012 06:48 Two_DoWn wrote:
So I was thinking about this as I spent 5 hours in a car today: who are the actual S class players in LoL ATM?
Luckily, 5 hours was enough to actually answer this question. I limited it to NA simply because I dont know enough about EU to make an adequate determination. My list is also completely subjective, but also completely accurate because I said so.
So, without further ado:
Top Lane: No one. Literally. There is not a single S class top laner in NA. Every single one is SEVERELY flawed. HSGG has a champ pool that consists of Cho at this point, and goes derp mode every 10 seconds. TRM, is, well, TRM. Voyboy is solid but not nearly over the top enough to actually consider putting him up there. Dyrus is probably the most complete of any of them, but his early game is just not strong enough (even though he is the best late game out of all of them)
Mid: Salce. Hands down most consistent AP in NA, not to mention the fact that he is also the only player who can and does consistently win mid against the other top players. Regi is close, but his cass ults singlehandedly knocked him from contention. Jiji still needs to work on his mobility in the laning phase, and Scarra and NyJackie are both solid, but not on the same level as Salce.
Jungle: Saintvicious. Put CDE on his back in Korea. Has the best champion pool of anyone. Can instantly shift between carry and support jungles, can counterjungle the best of anyone in NA, and also deals with counterjunging the best. For reference, I think that Jatt when Dignitas was in form was probably S class as well, but he is retired. TOO proved that he struggles with invasion, knock him off his game and he dissapears. Dan Dinh, IWillDominate, and Lapakaa all not on that level.
Bot lane: No splitting ad and support. Its nearly impossible to separate where the ad leaves off and the support picks up, and vise versa. That being said, Chaox and Xpecial are the only S class in NA (and also IMO the best bot lane in the world). Xpecial is the best support in the scene atm, and Chaox meshes extremely well with him, and most importantly, can snowball very hard off of a lane Xpecial sets up for him to win. Double and Chauster suffer from the fact that Double is a strategic moron and Chauster is new to support. West and Nyat havent played enough together recently. Qtpie and L0cust probably the next most solid bot lane in NA behind the TSM bot both in terms of overall level of play and consistency.
So ya. Your S class players are Salce, Saintvicious, Chaox and Xpecial. If we don't limit to NA I'd suggest Darien as the best solo top, imo the most impressive player in M5 by far and I can't understand why it wasn't him who got the MVP award >_> Either way I haven't seen him lose a lane yet, I'm not sure if that game vs TSM with double first blood should count I don't think we've seen enough of M5 or the other upcoming team Mtl.tt to make a good judgement on how good they are compared to other top EU/NA/KR teams.
The toplane? What contenders are there? Wickd who only plays one champion?
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pretty sure wickd plays riven GP and trynd on top of irelia
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Does anyone know why garen's spin does half damage to minions? It just seems like an unnecessary and completely arbitrary restriction. Would it really be that op if garen can clear waves effectively? Its not like hes nearly as strong a pick as he was 2-3 months ago.
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Okay if you think 3 is too much for S class, revamped to shorter version.
Top: Can't decide atm will have to watch Kings of Europe to get fuller representation.
Mid: Xpeke.
Bot: Lamia/Melissan
Jungle: Diamondprox
I am in the process of typing a full explanation though
On January 25 2012 08:21 Shikyo wrote:
The toplane? What contenders are there? Wickd who only plays one champion?
Are you actually serious about this? rofl
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Again- remember that just because there IS a lane doesnt mean that there has to be an S class player for that lane.
Actually, I think top is the most pathetic of all positions ATM. For some reason it became "okay" for a tournament top lane player to not have a wide selection of champions. I mean, most SUPPORTS can play more champions than the top laners on their team. And there are like 5 support champions.
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On January 25 2012 08:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Again- remember that just because there IS a lane doesnt mean that there has to be an S class player for that lane.
Actually, I think top is the most pathetic of all positions ATM. For some reason it became "okay" for a tournament top lane player to not have a wide selection of champions. I mean, most SUPPORTS can play more champions than the top laners on their team. And there are like 5 support champions.
funny thing is that it's not even that hard to play competitive top in comparison. It's mostly farming and coming to dragon at the right time, some counterjungling. It'd make sense to me if you can play top with one champion you should be able to play with many others
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On January 25 2012 08:33 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2012 08:26 Two_DoWn wrote:
Again- remember that just because there IS a lane doesnt mean that there has to be an S class player for that lane.
Actually, I think top is the most pathetic of all positions ATM. For some reason it became "okay" for a tournament top lane player to not have a wide selection of champions. I mean, most SUPPORTS can play more champions than the top laners on their team. And there are like 5 support champions. funny thing is that it's not even that hard to play competitive top in comparison. It's mostly farming and coming to dragon at the right time, some counterjungling. It'd make sense to me if you can play top with one champion you should be able to play with many others
wow thats a bold statement. I think top is a very hard lane since the matchups are much more asymetric than the others + its the easyest to gank lane. If your behind enough top then you will straight up feed hardcore if you try to CS. APs and even ADs have the luxury to CS even if behind or when having a shitty matchup to a much greater extend. In top lane one guy is the bitch very fast if things happen.
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Can you really expect people to be able to play 10+ champions at tournament level? Even for somebody like HotshotGG who has a very narrow list of champions, as long as one of those fit into the team comp you intend to run does it really matter (unless it gets banned)?
Like Wicked might be S class top with Irelia because he destroys that hard with her, but that same mastery level definitely doesn't apply to other champions. I'm not saying he's bad with other champions, merely that his irelia is so dominant that teams target a ban for it. Should he be expected to play five or ten champions at his irelia level? I'm not even sure that is a possibility, but somebody could swing by and prove that they are the true S class top for sure.
Most of the ad carry players have a preference on who their favorite ad carry is for instance and they will probably play that one unless it's banned or their team comp wants otherwise. It's no different than top lane besides the fact that the top lane champions play so differently that they require more than solid mechanics. Like the ad carry is more about positioning than actually using the champion's kit. What separates chaox from the other ad carries is that he's always in position and synergizes perfectly with his support player. If you can play Caitlyn at S class level, your other carries are already A+ just because they all do practically the same thing. There's some niche things to each one, but they're a lot simpler than top lanes. If you can play Irelia at S class level, your rumble might be F level since they play completely differently.
laugh@Shikyo. You can't seriously think that ^_^
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EPT
