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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. |
On December 10 2011 18:38 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 18:34 Ryuu314 wrote:On December 10 2011 18:32 Craton wrote:
Scarabs really aren't that RNG. It has a lot more to do with positioning the shots and how you run away. Yea, positioning and how you run does affect it but it's still pretty RNG. No scarabs are 100% micro dependent. Perfect micro/knowledge of how scarab ai works means scarabs will never hit. Of course that doesn't even come close to happening so w\e.
well i mean scarabs (and dragoons and goliaths) do get screwed by pathing AI which, i suppose if you have 100% perfect understanding of the game, will never happen, but since no one does it does become somewhat rng.
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Rumor has it there's a new boot coming (or at least a changed icon for holiday boots 1).
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On December 10 2011 17:04 Vaporized wrote:
im still not convinced. its not that ryze's ap ratios are subpar, its more that he doesnt even have ap ratios on 3 of his 4 skills. i guess i can get a AA next game and see if i see any difference.
and its true ryze isnt meant to push towers, but having the ability to late game can be useful. if you're the last one left after a fight it would take forever to kill a turret, with manamune you will get the inhib before they spawn too. against low hit point champs like shaco in a 1v1 situation your manamune assisted auto attacks will definetly be felt.
i guess i can try wota instead of roa next game too. i really have no trouble 1v1 anyone late game with my build. i will see if its easier with wota. roa adds 630 health and 725 mana fully charged, +80 ap to help out e. it might not be the most cost effecient item for ryze, but i find it effective.
Ryze's AP ratios aren't bad but they aren't non-existant. 0.2 looks bad on his q but you easily cast that 3-5X as much as any other nuke so its more like 0.6-1.0 (relatively speaking) which is pretty respectable. Not good enough to build AP but decent.
Also remember that you get a percentage of your AP as bonus damage to attacks on tower so the trade-off there isn't as cut and dry. Build AA (imo) but only when you have everything else.
On December 10 2011 18:49 Craton wrote:
Rumor has it there's a new boot coming.
Almost certainly to replace ninja tabi, though, right?
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On December 10 2011 18:49 Craton wrote:
Rumor has it there's a new boot coming (or at least a changed icon for holiday boots 1).
Crit boots ? :D
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On December 10 2011 18:39 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 18:35 Raynian wrote:
BW doesn't even really have "RNG" in the same way crits/dodge work. Scarabs only dud if they take a while to reach their target - yes, there are stupid scarabs, yes, you will occasionally get screwed, but if you see a scarab jetting towards your worker line, you know you can pull your workers and they'll -probably- be fine. The miss chance uphill is the only real RNG, but that directly rewards superior positioning, which is interactive on both players' parts.
Expecting the enemy to have a small amount of crit/dodge at level 1 doesn't change the way you'd act in lane. You still try to CS like normal, and harass as normal. The difference is that if one player gets a lucky string of crits or dodges, the scenario completely changes due to luck. One early crit can win a lane and potentially snowball into an undeserved victory. That's bad RNG. The way crit/dodge works should make it impossiple to get a string of crits with 4% crit because it's not entirely RNG based, or so I've read. While I agree that crit may be problematic earlygame on paper, especially in bot lane(you expect it on some champs like trynd obv), later in the game it's completely fine. Never had a problem with lucky crits though.
It is possible, just less likely than it should be from a mathematical perspective. They tried to make it more intuitive for people who don't really know a whole lot about random distributions etc., but it should still be possible to crit 4 times in a row with 4% crit.
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On December 10 2011 19:01 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 18:39 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 18:35 Raynian wrote:
BW doesn't even really have "RNG" in the same way crits/dodge work. Scarabs only dud if they take a while to reach their target - yes, there are stupid scarabs, yes, you will occasionally get screwed, but if you see a scarab jetting towards your worker line, you know you can pull your workers and they'll -probably- be fine. The miss chance uphill is the only real RNG, but that directly rewards superior positioning, which is interactive on both players' parts.
Expecting the enemy to have a small amount of crit/dodge at level 1 doesn't change the way you'd act in lane. You still try to CS like normal, and harass as normal. The difference is that if one player gets a lucky string of crits or dodges, the scenario completely changes due to luck. One early crit can win a lane and potentially snowball into an undeserved victory. That's bad RNG. The way crit/dodge works should make it impossiple to get a string of crits with 4% crit because it's not entirely RNG based, or so I've read. While I agree that crit may be problematic earlygame on paper, especially in bot lane(you expect it on some champs like trynd obv), later in the game it's completely fine. Never had a problem with lucky crits though. It is possible, just less likely than it should be from a mathematical perspective. They tried to make it more intuitive for people who don't really know a whole lot about random distributions etc., but it should still be possible to crit 4 times in a row with 4% crit.
Not from a gameplay point of view. If you have 4% crit chance, it should be normal that your next 15 or so attacks won't crit.
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On December 10 2011 19:04 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:01 spinesheath wrote:On December 10 2011 18:39 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 18:35 Raynian wrote:
BW doesn't even really have "RNG" in the same way crits/dodge work. Scarabs only dud if they take a while to reach their target - yes, there are stupid scarabs, yes, you will occasionally get screwed, but if you see a scarab jetting towards your worker line, you know you can pull your workers and they'll -probably- be fine. The miss chance uphill is the only real RNG, but that directly rewards superior positioning, which is interactive on both players' parts.
Expecting the enemy to have a small amount of crit/dodge at level 1 doesn't change the way you'd act in lane. You still try to CS like normal, and harass as normal. The difference is that if one player gets a lucky string of crits or dodges, the scenario completely changes due to luck. One early crit can win a lane and potentially snowball into an undeserved victory. That's bad RNG. The way crit/dodge works should make it impossiple to get a string of crits with 4% crit because it's not entirely RNG based, or so I've read. While I agree that crit may be problematic earlygame on paper, especially in bot lane(you expect it on some champs like trynd obv), later in the game it's completely fine. Never had a problem with lucky crits though. It is possible, just less likely than it should be from a mathematical perspective. They tried to make it more intuitive for people who don't really know a whole lot about random distributions etc., but it should still be possible to crit 4 times in a row with 4% crit. Not from a gameplay point of view. If you have 4% crit chance, it should be normal that your next 15 or so attacks won't crit.
Here is an example of one such person who doesn't know a whole lot about random distributions.
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Just saw the patch preview, the TF pick a card change is awesome, so annoying when you ult, spamclick a champ and still hit a minion.
They should change it to sona powerchord aswell. Dropped a ward in enemy brush the other day and sona powerchord was wasted lol.
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On December 10 2011 19:26 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:04 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 10 2011 19:01 spinesheath wrote:On December 10 2011 18:39 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 18:35 Raynian wrote:
BW doesn't even really have "RNG" in the same way crits/dodge work. Scarabs only dud if they take a while to reach their target - yes, there are stupid scarabs, yes, you will occasionally get screwed, but if you see a scarab jetting towards your worker line, you know you can pull your workers and they'll -probably- be fine. The miss chance uphill is the only real RNG, but that directly rewards superior positioning, which is interactive on both players' parts.
Expecting the enemy to have a small amount of crit/dodge at level 1 doesn't change the way you'd act in lane. You still try to CS like normal, and harass as normal. The difference is that if one player gets a lucky string of crits or dodges, the scenario completely changes due to luck. One early crit can win a lane and potentially snowball into an undeserved victory. That's bad RNG. The way crit/dodge works should make it impossiple to get a string of crits with 4% crit because it's not entirely RNG based, or so I've read. While I agree that crit may be problematic earlygame on paper, especially in bot lane(you expect it on some champs like trynd obv), later in the game it's completely fine. Never had a problem with lucky crits though. It is possible, just less likely than it should be from a mathematical perspective. They tried to make it more intuitive for people who don't really know a whole lot about random distributions etc., but it should still be possible to crit 4 times in a row with 4% crit. Not from a gameplay point of view. If you have 4% crit chance, it should be normal that your next 15 or so attacks won't crit. Here is an example of one such person who doesn't know a whole lot about random distributions.
Read again : FROM. A. GAMEPLAY. POINT. OF. VIEW. Do you have to take people for idiots to feel better or what ?
Back to back crits are stupids and can break the early game, they shouldn't happen, and a PSEUDO random completly dismissing double crits for low values of crit chances would be benefical. Random doesn't exist on computer anyways, so why not add a little bit of hysteresis ?
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On December 10 2011 19:44 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 19:26 spinesheath wrote:On December 10 2011 19:04 mr_tolkien wrote:On December 10 2011 19:01 spinesheath wrote:On December 10 2011 18:39 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 18:35 Raynian wrote:
BW doesn't even really have "RNG" in the same way crits/dodge work. Scarabs only dud if they take a while to reach their target - yes, there are stupid scarabs, yes, you will occasionally get screwed, but if you see a scarab jetting towards your worker line, you know you can pull your workers and they'll -probably- be fine. The miss chance uphill is the only real RNG, but that directly rewards superior positioning, which is interactive on both players' parts.
Expecting the enemy to have a small amount of crit/dodge at level 1 doesn't change the way you'd act in lane. You still try to CS like normal, and harass as normal. The difference is that if one player gets a lucky string of crits or dodges, the scenario completely changes due to luck. One early crit can win a lane and potentially snowball into an undeserved victory. That's bad RNG. The way crit/dodge works should make it impossiple to get a string of crits with 4% crit because it's not entirely RNG based, or so I've read. While I agree that crit may be problematic earlygame on paper, especially in bot lane(you expect it on some champs like trynd obv), later in the game it's completely fine. Never had a problem with lucky crits though. It is possible, just less likely than it should be from a mathematical perspective. They tried to make it more intuitive for people who don't really know a whole lot about random distributions etc., but it should still be possible to crit 4 times in a row with 4% crit. Not from a gameplay point of view. If you have 4% crit chance, it should be normal that your next 15 or so attacks won't crit. Here is an example of one such person who doesn't know a whole lot about random distributions. Read again : FROM. A. GAMEPLAY. POINT. OF. VIEW. Back to back crits are stupids and can break the early game, they shouldn't happen, and a PSEUDO random completly dismissing double crits for low values of crit chances would be benefical. Random doesn't exist on computer anyways, so why not add a little bit of hysteresis ?
It's a crit chance. It's supposed to be random (pseudo random = cannot easily tell the difference between real random and pseudo random). If it wasn't supposed to be random (no back to back crits cuz u don't like them), crit should be replaced with a "double damage after X attacks" mechanic.
There is some hysteresis in LoL's crit mechanic right now. Back to back crits at low crit values are rarer than they should be. They still exist though, and rightfully so.
I guess I should have made it clear that my previous post wasn't really meant to offend you personally, but rather to point out that the average person who doesn't really know how randomness works will always complain about crit streaks with the same argument you used. Sorry.
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Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over.
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On December 10 2011 20:02 Gahlo wrote:
Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over.
You should run a full crit page, you'll have like 25% crit with runes/masteries and just harass champs with your 650 range.
If only I had the IP~~.
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On December 10 2011 20:03 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 20:02 Gahlo wrote:
Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over. You should run a full crit page, you'll have like 25% crit with runes/masteries and just harass champs with your 650 range. If only I had the IP~~.
See now that's just trolling.
By the by, how has this discussion of crit lasted so long and raised such tempers? One would almost think that we're discussing something of critical importance.
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On December 10 2011 20:12 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 20:03 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 20:02 Gahlo wrote:
Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over. You should run a full crit page, you'll have like 25% crit with runes/masteries and just harass champs with your 650 range. If only I had the IP~~. See now that's just trolling. By the by, how has this discussion of crit lasted so long and raised such tempers? One would almost think that we're discussing something of critical importance.
No that's not trolling, I actually want to try running 25% crit on someone like cait because it's much easier to harass with that range(if you happen not to crit you don't lose trades) and a headshot crit is insane.
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On December 10 2011 18:52 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 18:49 Craton wrote:
Rumor has it there's a new boot coming. Almost certainly to replace ninja tabi, though, right?
Seems more likely to just be a holiday themed icon.
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On December 10 2011 20:15 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 20:12 Treadmill wrote:On December 10 2011 20:03 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 20:02 Gahlo wrote:
Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over. You should run a full crit page, you'll have like 25% crit with runes/masteries and just harass champs with your 650 range. If only I had the IP~~. See now that's just trolling. By the by, how has this discussion of crit lasted so long and raised such tempers? One would almost think that we're discussing something of critical importance. No that's not trolling, I actually want to try running 25% crit on someone like cait because it's much easier to harass with that range(if you happen not to crit you don't lose trades) and a headshot crit is insane.
Hmm. I guess. I wouldn't suggest it for a newbie cait though since without the usual ad runes you'd havea hard time last-hitting. Also positioning becomes even more critical without any defensive runes.
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On December 10 2011 20:21 Treadmill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 20:15 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 20:12 Treadmill wrote:On December 10 2011 20:03 JackDino wrote:On December 10 2011 20:02 Gahlo wrote:
Holy crap how have I never picked up Catilyn before? This week has been heaven, definitely buying her when the week is over. You should run a full crit page, you'll have like 25% crit with runes/masteries and just harass champs with your 650 range. If only I had the IP~~. See now that's just trolling. By the by, how has this discussion of crit lasted so long and raised such tempers? One would almost think that we're discussing something of critical importance. No that's not trolling, I actually want to try running 25% crit on someone like cait because it's much easier to harass with that range(if you happen not to crit you don't lose trades) and a headshot crit is insane. Hmm. I guess. I wouldn't suggest it for a newbie cait though since without the usual ad runes you'd havea hard time last-hitting. Also positioning becomes even more critical without any defensive runes.
Best way to learn how to last hit is by using as little ad as possible, if you use ad runes to learn how to last hit you're gonna have problem when for some reason you can't use those runes or have to open boots instead of d-blade.
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Best way to learn how to last hit is play ap champs. When you can last hit with that puny damage and those awful animations, you'll be able to last hit with carries ezpz.
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On December 10 2011 20:46 h3r1n6 wrote:
Best way to learn how to last hit is play ap champs. When you can last hit with that puny damage and those awful animations, you'll be able to last hit with carries ezpz.
Well that usually isn't how it worKs. The more you play a champion, the better you get at last hitting with them. Like I can last-hit with ryze pretty well but even then I can't last hit with most ranged AD carries except caitlyn and graves. you need to get individually familiar with the attack animation and range of the particular champion you're playing. Atleast thats how it seems to me from my experience.
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I hope the new runes won't make a few champion broken the first days. :/
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EPT
