EPT[Patch 1.0.0.130: Volibear] General Discussion - Page 152
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:05 starfries wrote: support Pantheon is the best. spear all day, use ultimate as a 10 second cd cv. Pantheon + Trist is a really fun lane, but I mostly wanted to respond to this because when the ult is cancelable, it doesn't grant vision. You only gain vision when you're about to land and you can't cancel it during that time, so no, no 10 second CV. On December 09 2011 00:18 Requizen wrote: I know people can be bad, but come on. Last night, Triforce first Riven. It's like, it's not even a recommended item for her. She doesn't use half the stats on there. But of course, she's Riven, so she still ended up with 10+ kills from just running around raping people. She doesn't use mana or AP. Everything else is useful. Triforce has a fuckton of stats, not using 2 is hardly the end of the world. Is it ideal on her? No, but I dunno why you're bitching when it's not bad on her, especially if, as you said, she did fine and still butchered people. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Plus, while crit and AS are nice, they're really not as great on her as anything else. And the Phage proc is kinda pointless when she's already one of the most mobile champs in the game. You're tossing a lot of money into sub-optimal or useless stats for 30 AD, some health, a proc and some MS. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
The sheen proc is still pretty good if you can't consistenly auto attack (on squishies who cc you and run away it's still like the equivalent of boosting your damage the same as 1 basic attack since triforce is 150% and 1 auto+0.5 scaling on passive without ulti is 1.5 scaling so it works on the same on just your auto attacks. Like, attack speed and crit aren't bad when ALL your other damage is basically just pure AD anyways. edit: whats thing about unbeatable top lanes? Rumble, yorick, trynd? From my experience Nasus dumps on rumble because rumble pushes lane and nasus heals to full with retarded amounts of sustain, same with yorick. Trynd probably can't do much either but trynd isn't popular on EU so i'm not sure. Udyr, however, fucking rapes Nasus hard as well as most champions after he gets wriggles, or at worst has to just afk farm and is probably the most versatile top laner right now. On December 08 2011 09:07 Alaric wrote: Riven vs Nasus top, thoughts? I guess Riven should be able to bully him if she starts cloth+5 into wriggles, thanks to her manaless status + her stun. Can she just jump him with the shield, stun, and hit him some every time he tries to Q a minion? Riven out cs's him since Nasus can only get the safe CS but riven basically has to overextend to deny like that and is really at risk of jungle ganks because wither is so strong. I'd honestly say it depends on both junglers as well as the laners because if you countergank with riven it's like automatic win. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:24 Mogwai wrote: Pantheon + Trist is a really fun lane, but I mostly wanted to respond to this because when the ult is cancelable, it doesn't grant vision. You only gain vision when you're about to land and you can't cancel it during that time, so no, no 10 second CV. yeah I just tried it, boo  | ||
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mordek
United States12704 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:19 Hynda wrote: Dan Dinh streaming for 22 hours, so hardcore I know, and drunk hahaha | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:27 Requizen wrote: It's not that TF is bad on her, it's that you can get much, much better in the form of any BFSword item. Or even stacking BFS. Plus, while crit and AS are nice, they're really not as great on her as anything else. And the Phage proc is kinda pointless when she's already one of the most mobile champs in the game. You're tossing a lot of money into sub-optimal or useless stats for 30 AD, some health, a proc and some MS. crit and AS are good on her. she stacks AD and has time between CDs to attack, they're useful. even on Pantheon, who is looking at much short AD Scaling CDs, I like having an item to give me AS to make my autos more useful because you might as well get all the use you can out of that AD. Slow proc is never pointless. Even if you're 700 MS Yi with his ult on attacking an Ashe, the slow proc increases the amount of time it takes for her to reposition herself to her tower/team, so even if it's irrelevant to your relative position to your target, it will always be relevant to big picture positioning. On December 09 2011 00:29 Slayer91 wrote: Running around raping people is one of the things that triforce helps you do a lot with the speed and slow. People really seem to underestimate triforce which is weird since not too long ago it was the most OP shit ever. The sheen proc is still pretty good if you can't consistenly auto attack (on squishies who cc you and run away it's still like the equivalent of boosting your damage the same as 1 basic attack since triforce is 150% and 1 auto+0.5 scaling on passive without ulti is 1.5 scaling so it works on the same on just your auto attacks. Like, attack speed and crit aren't bad when ALL your other damage is basically just pure AD anyways. Yea, still blows my mind that Trinity didn't get widely popular on WW. It's hands down his best item IMHO. And then out of nowhere, no one bitching about Triforce even though it's still the single best tankydeeps item by a mile and a half. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
"Well I'm going glacial shroud that's what everyone else does on ww, need the mana, cdr and armour, Q costs absurd mana" "Wait a minute I need a phage for this asshole teemo, and I don't need armour, fuck it I'll get a sheen with this mana crystal and build a phage" "Guess I finish my triforce" Then like, my whole team dies near a tower with 4 of their team left 2 of them low, I just bought my trinity so I just run around being an asshole with my E up and end up killing everyone and going like 14/1 with the teemo complaining about retards feeding the ww. Was so hilarious. Their annie was super fed too and I just didn't give a fuck I healed her damage so fast. "Smash was right all along O.O" Oh and I read shen buffs? Definitely going to make him a pretty good pick I'll bet. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
It just made me go "wat" because, since it's not a recommended item, the player looked at Sheen first (did I mention Sheen first?) and said, "yeah, those stats will work". | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
On December 08 2011 19:27 Shiv. wrote: Great job bashing on Corvette everyone, can we move on now?  So... How exactly can you manhandle Riven? I'm assuming Smash will say Panth, which I will have to try out, but I doubt it's as effective in my hands. She outscales him so hard later on in the game, it's not even funny, and I doubt I'm good enough to dominate her so hard it won't matter. I tried both Swain and Ryze and didn't do terribly, but not great with either. Nevermoore is just WAY too easy to dodge for Riven, so one reason of him dominating lots of champs top becomes obsolete. With Ryze, it's a bit better, but once she hits around 6 or 7, she outbursts me. Between E-Q-W, it's really hard to get her off my ass, especially if the lane is pushed just the slightest bit. Probably a problem with my play and not Ryze in general, because I feel in theory he should handle her sorta well. As Nasus, I get shat on really hard (should not have tried that I guess huehue), same with Trynd. That might be because I played the early levels really poorly and she just snowballed out of control. My last resorts at this point would be Warwick, who I'm guessing can keep her at bay and farm safely, and Olaf, who should be able to trade. Any other ideas? Panth can do really well vs Riven in my experience. Now obviously a Riven that eventually gets farmed, (even if you kill her 5 times in lane) will still murder your whole team once she has a BT or two, but if you do your job right she'll be really behind for the bulk of the game. Open Dblade, and just chuck spear after spear after spear. Don't let her near creeps. If she wants to get CS, she's got to get next to you and trade autos, and no one trades autos with panth. Use your passive well, (charge is asap when she's backed off a bit, block a hit before insta-proccing it with W, etc), and land autos between all your stuff. You *will* out damage her unless you play really coward and let her harass you without hitting back. Seriously just chuck a million spears right in her face and zone her and play stupidly aggressive. If she opens dblade or boots, you get firstblood at lvl2 ezmode. If she opens cloth5 you need to really punish her and back early to get your boots/ward/whatever. You cannot allow her to stay in the game, you *need* to win the lane early and use that advantage to crush her. Even just first blood or forcing her back when a big wave comes is enough to put you so far ahead that you can zone her for the rest of the laning phase. Same deal with Trynd. You can win the lane, and win it hard, but you really need to press your early game advantage. Ask your jungle to gank top early, (you don't even need him to actually gank half the time, just so he's nearby if enemy jungle shows up), and play hyper aggressive. Not many people really understand how much damage pantheon can do at low levels, and even fewer trynd/riven players have ever actually died at lvl1, and so it doesn't even register in their minds that you can legit kill them that early. Trynd players usually crit you for 180 or so at lvl1, and then enjoy their free farming for the next 20 mins while their opponent is terrified of them for the rest of the game. Pantheon blocks that crit, punches trynd in the face his shield, blocks another hit, and stabs him in the ass with a spear when he runs for his life. EZPZ. Anyway: Am I the only one thinking Volibear is broken as fuck? I haven't tried him in ranked matches yet as I need to polish up my early laning with him, but holy crap farmed bear is downright silly. W is stupid damage, even at lvl1, seriously it's just silly amounts of damage. Q is the best gap closer out there, (and only ever needs 1 point lol). E is a CRAZY 3-SECOND AOE SLOW, which ALSO BREAKS MINION AGRO so you can fuck with your opponent allll day in lane. And your passive is HALF OF MUNDO'S ULT LOL. BALANCED. Here's what happens when I get ganked as volibear. I run into the bushes and wait for them both to blindly facecheck it. Press R and surge, and a-move. They try to kill me, and then realize "holyshit we're both dying". Press E to slow them both down, Q to chase the lower one, and W to finish anyone still in range. If they run too far and you can't chase, just auto creeps and the lightning like jumps across the whole goddamn map to finish them off, it's hilarious. I was playing a game with bear last night and I was 4-1 in lane. Fed, but not super duper fed. 4 Enemies at dragon, and I charge in with ghost/ult/surge. 1v4 solo. Killed 3 of them before dying. 620 magical splash damage EVERY AUTO ATTACK. And with W + surge you hit 2.0 AS instantly. For the 12 seconds your ult is up, you're putting out as much sustained AoE splash damage as almost any AP carry, except that you also have fucking 5,000 hp, 150+ armor/MR, an AoE slow, a chase, and a single target execution move. It's absurd. I think voli is seriously overlooked. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Needless to say not many people play jarvan on EU any more. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:52 Slayer91 wrote: Probably the coolest thing I've seen on his stream is playing jarvan properly using his ult as a peel when every fucking jarvan on EU uses it to initiate and just dies at the start of a team fight and some mobile bruiser will zone their squishies and then it'll be a 4v5 and the jarvan will just complain about how much he tanked them and we didn't do anything or whatever. Feels like a misunderstanding of how teamfights in this game work where mobility is just as important as tank stats for surviving. Needless to say not many people play jarvan on EU any more. I still need to post that clip I have where I waited for 2 bruisers, I think it was Irelia and Lee Sin, to jump my ranged Carry, I wanna say vayne, and then trapped them both in my ult by ulting the one who was further back such that it walled both of them off the carry who then ripped them up. That was the single best play I ever made playing lol. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:51 Haemonculus wrote:Am I the only one thinking Volibear is broken as fuck? . Nope, there's people whining about him every five pages or so. Join the club! We'll be happy to have you. I started playing ranked just to escape the stupid bear hahaha. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:05 phyvo wrote: I think TF will get a lot more attention once Riot nerfs warmog's/atma's. People built it on a ton of bruisers before atmogs ever became popular. It's not ideal on every champ but even I have to grudgingly admit that it's more useful than I usually give it credit for. games are getting decided too quickly for atmog's these days. Also, retarded base damages that allowed you to threaten kills with just a warmogs are a thing of the past. So like, even on Atmog's lovers, you typically have to get some dblades and brutalizer first to stay relevant in terms of damage from your solo. And if you're going to delay your atmog's by 2K, you're looking at a monstrous valley in offensive output from like 3K to 8K, so you usually either rush triforce to give yourself a more steady powercurve up to 8K or you go with a piecemeal midgame item build like my J4 has been doing recently. I only really commit to atmog's if I'm running gold/10 and digging in for a long game. | ||
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Hynda
Sweden2226 Posts
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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