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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:07 iCanada wrote: You're telling em you'd rather have Volibear than Singed/Rammus? Huh... How did that even happen? You could have at least asked if I'd rather have Volibear than UDYR, but even that wouldn't make sense. | ||
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NotSorry
United States6722 Posts
one way trips to disneyland for everyone | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:29 Ryuu314 wrote: If Riot really wants to make jungling optional: Remove buff camps Nerf the shit out of wards Only two ways imo. The existence of buff camps means the team without jungler is playing with no buffs until lanes break down. Buff camps are too far from lane and too durable for laners to just leave it and jack it a la DotA style runes. The cheap cost and spammability of wards means pure roamers and the roaming meta is easily countered by people with good map awareness and constant ward spam/wriggles. But you still want some roaming ganking force to relieve and put pressure on lanes, which means you need a jungler who can roam/farm jungle simultaneously. The way LoL is set up, jungling is not and will never be optional. They can fuck the jungle as much as they want but as long as those two things exist (cheap wards+durable buff camps) junglers will exist no matter how fucked and shitty their farm/exp will be. The team can take all the buffs and creeps just fine without a jungler and get to lane before the first wave clashes. The changes to the buffs (flat Manaregenpart on blue, red working on certain abilities) even makes them stronger to put in lane. Wards could get nerfed. Even now they aren´t perfect defense, and in absence of a "real" jungler roamers can pick up the camps when they aren´t/can´t gank. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:16 Unentschieden wrote: The team can take all the buffs and creeps just fine without a jungler and get to lane before the first wave clashes. The changes to the buffs (flat Manaregenpart on blue, red working on certain abilities) even makes them stronger to put in lane. Wards could get nerfed. Even now they aren´t perfect defense, and in absence of a "real" jungler roamers can pick up the camps when they aren´t/can´t gank. Sure you can pick up buffs at lvl 1 as a team, but past the first buff whoever has a dedicated player trying to control the buffs has an edge. Travelling from lane to buff and killing buff then back to lane takes at LEAST a good 30-45 seconds not to mention buffs do a very decent amount of damage. That's like 2 waves+ of exp and probably a good chunk of potions at early levels. I guess if Riot nerfs the shit out of the buff camps to make 'em super weak it might work out. When roamers aren't/can't gank you say they should pick up jungle. Well...that's kinda what junglers did in the previous patch. With good speed, top tier junglers had their jungle cleared I'd say 50% of the time. EDIT: I'm pretty sure you can't get to lane before first wave clashes if you take buffs. Buffs spawn 1:55, mid lane wave clashes pretty much at 1:55 and side lanes clash about 5 seconds later. Far lanes (ex. bot lane for red buff top) would definitely lose out on some creep gold/exp if they don't take teleport and use that to get into lane. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
You should also be able to smash buffs relatively quickly early on with 2/3 people. You're still gonna need a smite or you'll never be able to contest baron/dragon unless you have a chogath or nunu ^_^ Missing one minion isn't going to lose you the game. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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HeroHenry
United States1723 Posts
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:50 HeroHenry wrote: Who qualify for IEM Kiev for NA? Please do some rudimentary searching as it's been answered in this thread a few times already. That being said, it was TSM, Dignitas, and Goose. | ||
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jondigweed
6 Posts
But seriously, how do I get Plat? | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:34 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: As long as your top builds wriggles that buff should be fairly easy, and ad/support should be able to smash the other buff relatively easily. If you push your lanes and then converge on the buff it should go down very quickly. Take the other camp along the way for the heal ^_^ You should also be able to smash buffs relatively quickly early on with 2/3 people. You're still gonna need a smite or you'll never be able to contest baron/dragon unless you have a chogath or nunu ^_^ Missing one minion isn't going to lose you the game. The problem is also that you can't expect your laner to leave lane the moment buffs spawn. If say the opponent is pushing and the laner leaves you lose tower. The team with jungler will have too much of an advantage. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:53 jondigweed wrote: Finally reached 1700 elo. Now time to stop laddering and pretend I'm actually good at this game! H4h4h4 But seriously, how do I get Plat? Play more. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:56 Ryuu314 wrote: The problem is also that you can't expect your laner to leave lane the moment buffs spawn. If say the opponent is pushing and the laner leaves you lose tower. The team with jungler will have too much of an advantage. Why are people pretending that if you don't have a jungler your team only has 4 players? You have a fifth. Either he takes the buff while everyone else is laning or he lanes while a laner takes the buff. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
PM me or use the "Report" button. I can't check GD that frequently but having it pop up in a PM or as a report means I will address it more quickly. Thanks. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:07 phyvo wrote: Why are people pretending that if you don't have a jungler your team only has 4 players? You have a fifth. Either he takes the buff while everyone else is laning or he lanes while a laner takes the buff. You have a fifth person but he can't be everywhere at once. If he is everywhere at once keeping track of buff spawn times etc... you might as well jsut have a freaking jungler -.- | ||
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Unentschieden
Germany1471 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:32 Ryuu314 wrote: You have a fifth person but he can't be everywhere at once. If he is everywhere at once keeping track of buff spawn times etc... you might as well jsut have a freaking jungler -.- Except it´s not one guy that is responsible, everyone is. In fact everyone is responsible now already - when was the last time anyone soloed dragon in a higher Elo match? | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:42 Unentschieden wrote: Uh the point is that not taking a jungler doesn´t mean it´s 1-1-2 vs 1-1-2+jungler. That other guy didn´t just dissolve under the pressure of the current meta. Okay so if there's no jungler then what? 1-1-3? 2-1-2? Then what about buff control? Every time it's about to spawn you have someone who just walks to it and takes it and in the process losing out on exp/gold and/or risk losing tower? Not to mention there are a few champs/pros who can 1v2 decently, meaning that their team will have a solo lane advantage + with the right jungler they can outlevel you easily. Sure you can try to zone out a 2v1 lane, but if you want to last hit the lane will push eventually and the opposing laner will get farm. What does solo-ing dragon have anything to do with it? The difference between a team grouping for dragon and grouping for buffs is that dragon is worht much much more than a buff. If you have your team group to secure a buff you lose out on a ton of exp/gold. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:42 Unentschieden wrote: Except it´s not one guy that is responsible, everyone is. In fact everyone is responsible now already - when was the last time anyone soloed dragon in a higher Elo match? How is your example even relevant? You see junglers set up situations in which dragons can be taken all the time. It's their job to secure it for their team, not to actually damage it from 100 to 0 all by himself. With no one designated to do stuff like that, you'll eventually lose out on either buffs/XP/CS/towers. | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:42 Unentschieden wrote: Except it´s not one guy that is responsible, everyone is. In fact everyone is responsible now already - when was the last time anyone soloed dragon in a higher Elo match? Not very long ago. 2 weeks tops (talking scrims/quals). | ||
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