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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
I mean if I lane against him mid (as Ryze) I completely shit on him and he'll have 15 cs when I have 100. But whenever I'm not mid and he is, he's stupid powerful. Am I dumb or is there a secret strategy to easily beat a beefy, mobile champion that can 100-0 you easily? | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On December 04 2011 16:57 Alzadar wrote: Holy crap Fizz is retarded. He has burst that makes Veigar jealous, the best mobility in the game (he can dash further than even Xin, but can use it to escape too), and to top it off he can become untargetable. I mean if I lane against him mid (as Ryze) I completely shit on him and he'll have 15 cs when I have 100. But whenever I'm not mid and he is, he's stupid powerful. Am I dumb or is there a secret strategy to easily beat a beefy, mobile champion that can 100-0 you easily? play aps that counter melee as you stated, ryze is one of them. Vlad, morgana, some others also make farming with him tough mid. | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On December 04 2011 17:00 Brees wrote: play aps that counter melee as you stated, ryze is one of them. Vlad, morgana, some others also make farming with him tough mid. vlad craps on fizz so hard :/ | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14081 Posts
I want mah LoL back, at least to stomp some scrubs. | ||
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
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sinii
England989 Posts
However it's really killed my incentive to counter-jungle and by the sounds of things has completely made some junglers not viable anymore at all. Why would Riot want to do this to their game? It seems that it has made their game worse with absolutely nothing being improved? Strange... | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 04 2011 17:33 sinii wrote: These jungle changes have really baffled me, luckily I play one of the junglers that are still viable Skarner. However it's really killed my incentive to counter-jungle and by the sounds of things has completely made some junglers not viable anymore at all. Why would Riot want to do this to their game? It seems that it has made their game worse with absolutely nothing being improved? Strange... they thought junglers were too strong and wanted to nerf them. but they did it in a way that fucked every single jungler except like 4-5, and said 4-5 junglers are completely unaffected (or maybe even stronger). | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
I don't really understand how it really fucked up many junglers. Nunu and Fiddle are the only ones off the top of my head that got stomped into the ground. Udyr, Skarner, GP, Maokai, WW, Rammus. Volibear, Trundle, Nocturne and Lee Sin are all still good picks. I would say that Phoenix Udyr, Skarner and any type of aoe jungler is a bit stronger right now. Counter junglers and single target AP junglers are the only ones that really got the shaft. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
1) "A jungler should need to gank successfully to keep up, but if behind, staying in the jungle should be a good place to catch up." This just shows a fundamental misunderstanding how this game is played. Ganks are simply not a means for a jungler to gain an advantage for themselves. In the average case, you don't get gold from a gank, and you get minimal XP from creeps dying around you. Occasionally you get a kill or assist. Very often you only get bluepills or blown summoners, which only become advantage for your laner and not you. Sometimes, you don't even get anything more than the knowledge that you passed a ward. How Riot can't even understand this at a basic level, and think that ganking reliably puts a jungler ahead, I have no idea. 2) Riot thinks that gimmicky one-off big Wraith steals are an acceptable replacement for the counterjungling dynamics that existed before. They've completely destroyed the value of the timing information that you gain from clearing an enemy camp (letting you plan around coming back and taking it again, or at least knowing when it will be up for the opposing jungler to do), which was vastly more valuable than the small amount of XP/gold you gained from doing the camp once. This will remain the case so long as the spawn timers are as short as they are, no matter how they change the camp XP values--the laughably short spawn timers don't create room for you to plan accordingly. Instead of rewarding good planning and insight in the jungle, they reward a cute trick, and think it's the same thing just because they both involve the act of doing enemy jungle camps. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On December 04 2011 17:50 Demonace34 wrote: I am enjoying jungling with the new hotfix Riot just released, it is just going to take time for people to get used to. I don't really understand how it really fucked up many junglers. Nunu and Fiddle are the only ones off the top of my head that got stomped into the ground. Udyr, Skarner, GP, Maokai, WW, Rammus. Volibear, Trundle, Nocturne and Lee Sin are all still good picks. I would say that Phoenix Udyr, Skarner and any type of aoe jungler is a bit stronger right now. Counter junglers and single target AP junglers are the only ones that really got the shaft. hotfix didnt' do anythign except make jungle harder lolol.. banking 4 gold and 30 exp after 2 minutes really isn't much of a buff. GP WW Trundle suck dick in this jungle unless the other team overextends and don't ward all day so they get tons of ganks off. Haven't tried Maokai, but his jungle was quite slow pre-jungle nerf and it's probably even worse now; but at Maokai really just relies on his high base values and sick skillset so he's probably still okay. Lee Sin and Noct got hit super hard, they aren't quite shit, but they're not nearly as good they used to be. Udyr and Skarner are god tier; Shyv is up there too cause she so fast but her utility is pretty bleh. No clue about Volibear, but he's a single target dude and from my limited experience he sucks cause he's too slow. Malphite's pretty good too cause he can power farm jungle fast and hit 6 quite early and his ulti ganks are ridic. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On December 04 2011 18:12 Ryuu314 wrote: hotfix didnt' do anythign except make jungle harder lolol.. banking 4 gold and 30 exp after 2 minutes really isn't much of a buff. GP WW Trundle suck dick in this jungle unless the other team overextends and don't ward all day so they get tons of ganks off. Haven't tried Maokai, but his jungle was quite slow pre-jungle nerf and it's probably even worse now; but at Maokai really just relies on his high base values and sick skillset so he's probably still okay. Lee Sin and Noct got hit super hard, they aren't quite shit, but they're not nearly as good they used to be. Udyr and Skarner are god tier; Shyv is up there too cause she so fast but her utility is pretty bleh. No clue about Volibear, but he's a single target dude and from my limited experience he sucks cause he's too slow. Malphite's pretty good too cause he can power farm jungle fast and hit 6 quite early and his ulti ganks are ridic. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1558036 | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
haven't played him recently myself but that makes no sense 2 meeee either way league is a team game and the changes make that more apparent imo for optimal amounts of maximum farm obv all lanes farm and jungles afk farm but taking objectives, scoring kills, and putting pressure by denying other people map vision and forcing them to play a certain way (i.e. level 1-2 vs shaco) all change the pace of this development drastically denying the jungler greater flexibility in the ability to disturb laners' farming makes the game more stagnant most of the time but also probably puts more emphasis on junglers that can maximize utility given the new amounts of farm and experience that they can achieve out of the jungle (imo amumu should see a resurgence sooner or later) also for the junglers that play semi-carry or at least require a decently high baseline amount of farm to do what they need to or have inferior kits to their midlaners in ganking should consider picking up lots of farm mid while their midlaner forces advantages by ganking in their stead and taking towers when they get a successful gank off. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
I'm not saying he is OP or that he should get nerfed,but Riot has this retarded history of nerfing pub stompers to the ground for some reason(xin for instance). A fed tryndamere is the #1 hated thing by everyone,not sure why he didn't get hit yet tbh. I hope they won't tho. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 04 2011 18:12 Ryuu314 wrote: hotfix didnt' do anythign except make jungle harder lolol.. banking 4 gold and 30 exp after 2 minutes really isn't much of a buff. GP WW Trundle suck dick in this jungle unless the other team overextends and don't ward all day so they get tons of ganks off. Haven't tried Maokai, but his jungle was quite slow pre-jungle nerf and it's probably even worse now; but at Maokai really just relies on his high base values and sick skillset so he's probably still okay. Lee Sin and Noct got hit super hard, they aren't quite shit, but they're not nearly as good they used to be. Udyr and Skarner are god tier; Shyv is up there too cause she so fast but her utility is pretty bleh. No clue about Volibear, but he's a single target dude and from my limited experience he sucks cause he's too slow. Malphite's pretty good too cause he can power farm jungle fast and hit 6 quite early and his ulti ganks are ridic. Maokai actually clears like a beast because of all his AoE. Warwick, Trundle and other single target junglers were essentially eliminated as viable picks because they lacked the ability to keep up with the new respawn timer, making an already unforgiving jungle even worse. Adding health to larger creeps in the jungle does the opposite of making them more viable for that reason. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On December 04 2011 18:39 TheKefka wrote: What surprises me the most is that out of all people they didn't nerf tryndamere yet. I'm not saying he is OP or that he should get nerfed,but Riot has this retarded history of nerfing pub stompers to the ground for some reason(xin for instance). A fed tryndamere is the #1 hated thing by everyone,not sure why he didn't get hit yet tbh. I hope they won't tho. Because he actually has to get fed first, no reason to nerf him because once in a blue moon a fed trynd comes along. Xin got nerfed because he actually didn't need that many items. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On December 04 2011 18:45 JackDino wrote: Because he actually has to get fed first, no reason to nerf him because once in a blue moon a fed trynd comes along. Xin got nerfed because he actually didn't need that many items. i always thought it was his early game that seems really strong. which usually leads him to getting fed | ||
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Navi
5286 Posts
before if you could prevent him from getting lasthits you could shut down his sustain as crits are not very likely early game if he's not going for a lasthit but now every hit adds to his next heal, most casters don't have the low cdr or energy/mana efficiency to be able to punish him for every time he goes to hit a creep not to mention he can heal on cd now, so he's tougher to shut down 100% | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On December 04 2011 18:45 JackDino wrote: Because he actually has to get fed first, no reason to nerf him because once in a blue moon a fed trynd comes along. Xin got nerfed because he actually didn't need that many items. I don't know about you but tryndamere is one of the strongest top laners right now and I see plenty of them running around. | ||
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