EPT[Patch 1.0.0.129: Fizz] General Discussion - Page 124
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 26 2011 10:52 Hidden_MotiveS wrote: Lol is supposed to be noob friendly and unpunishing. It's what differentiates the game from HoN and DoTA. The game isn't going to get any harder or exciting and that's why so many people play it and watch it. Then it would be nice if all those people could stop complaining about the game not being exciting enough so that Riot could stop fucking around with stuff in order to fix a problem that's most easily fixed in the way they don't want the game to change. I'm not saying that they SHOULD fix this issue of "passivity" by making champions stronger and making the game more unforgiving. But I'm saying that's pretty obviously the best way to fix that issue. Muddling with everything else is just beating around the bush. If you want changes that make more kills and action to happen in games, you have to accept that it will inevitably involve you dying more in your games as well. And if you're not OK with that, then let's all let Riot know, so that they can stop messing things up by trying to "fix" this issue. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On November 26 2011 10:27 TheYango wrote: I will. I'll also go play Brood War, because it functions around the same design philosophy of punishing, unforgiving mechanics creating action. I can't really give you a longer response, seeing as you didn't actually provide a reasoned response and just said "you're wrong". Because it doesn't deserve a longer reply. It's the millionth time someone has said to turn LoL into DotA and the million time someone has been wrong for saying it. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 26 2011 10:58 Craton wrote: It's the millionth time someone has said to turn LoL into DotA and the million time someone has been wrong for saying it. I'm not saying that they SHOULD fix this issue of "passivity" by making champions stronger and making the game more unforgiving. But I'm saying that's pretty obviously the best way to fix that issue. Muddling with everything else is just beating around the bush. If you want changes that make more kills and action to happen in games, you have to accept that it will inevitably involve you dying more in your games as well. And if you're not OK with that, then let's all let Riot know, so that they can stop messing things up by trying to "fix" this issue. If you're going to have a game where people get lots of kills, you're going to have a game where people die a lot. You can either appeal to the spectator that likes to see action, or the player that likes not dying. Riot's decision to make a game toward the casual player that dislikes dying is fine. One way is not necessarily better than the other, but you have to recognize that there's a tradeoff here--you can't create a game where lots of kills are happening but people are not dying. That just doesn't make any sense. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:03 HazMat wrote: The new era of TL - Yango, Craton and TwoDown arguing. You just noticed? I've been spouting random shit that no one listens to or cares about for the better part of a year now. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:04 TheYango wrote: You just noticed? I've been spouting random shit that no one listens to or cares about for the better part of a year now. Yeah but now Craton stepped it up and joined you and TwoDown in the borefest. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
EDIT: who argued before? I got into lol about the time the subforum was made but I recall a few people that argued with everyone although I couldn't judge how valid their claims were back then. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:05 Wala.Revolution wrote: Some care and read yango. EDIT: who argued before? I got into lol about the time the subforum was made but I recall a few people that argued with everyone although I couldn't judge how valid their claims were back then. Before it was just everyone making up of Jazriel. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On November 26 2011 10:27 TheYango wrote: I will. I'll also go play Brood War, because it functions around the same design philosophy of punishing, unforgiving mechanics creating action. I can't really give you a longer response, seeing as you didn't actually provide a reasoned response and just said "you're wrong". Riot has stated that hypercarries of that caliber run opposite to their design philosophy since hyper carries reduce counter play and hence fun. As a result, LoL never has been and never will be DotA. Yet iirc one of the HoN developers cited the "passivity problem" as something common to both DotA and LoL, so making LoL into DotA actually solves nothing. In fact I'm not convinced that there's a "problem" at all. The proper number of kills for a game to be "good" is entirely subjective and no where in any forum have I recently seen complaints from players about game passivity. It's especially dangerous to define "action" as kills as if there weren't other kinds of mistakes you can make! As long as there are rewards for making good plays it doesn't actually matter if it's a kill or not, this kind of thing is very subjective. Look at baseball; so much downtime that the casters have to fill 90% of the time with random statistics yet for some reason it's a more popular sport than the far more active Ultimate Frisbee. Finally, Stonewall's complaint that noobs can jungle now is completely elitist. Sorry, there's no reason why the mere act of jungling should be an exclusive club type affair any more than the mere act of laning. Lowering barriers to entry like this is fine and part of LoL's general design. I see nothing wrong with the idea of jungling being more accessible. Yes, these particular changes seem to have reduced a great deal of the jungle strategy, yes, that is a problem, no, newbies should not be forced to spend 10k IP on runes to make jungling better than 2v2ing top lane. | ||
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4342 Posts
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
I pick and chose my battles. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
My #1 issue with Riot right now: Your game is moving too fucking fast. If I, as a loyal nerd for almost a year, am gone for two weeks and have trouble keeping up with all the changes (masteries, new champ, jungle change, dodge change) I can't even imagine how casual players who login once every week are feeling. Please, Riot, slow down the way you're "evolving" (hint: You're not even evolving it. You're throwing random mutations out and see what get's bitched at the most) this game. #2 Mastery changes. I'm totally sucking up to Smash and his brilliant post over at the official forums (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=17301441) - Some of those changes (mp5/hp5 value e.g.) should have never made it to the live server. The "One point to improve summoner" is weird as fuck. The offensive tree is fucked up. The ability to roll some junglers (hint: Skarner, Maokai, Cho Gath - didn't test more yet) with 28 offense is plain fucked up. XP mastery makes no sense for someone who doesn't want to go deep into utility, the prereqs to buff duration seem weaker as well. #3 Jungle changes. Stonwall (since he seems to be cited a lot) makes some really dumb arguments. I'm going to put this in bold and caps just once since I'm reading this argument all over the place. ALL THESE CHANGES TO THE JUNGLE ITSELF DO NOT MAKE JUNGLING SIMPLER a) If jungling gets "easier" what happens is that champs that (in his terms) were a C before are now B+ and champs that were A before are now A+. In general what happens is that the gap between "strong", "weak" and "good" junglers gets smaller. b) If camps spawn faster but are of less value it does not make afk-farming stronger. Yes, you can roll your jungle up and down, but you can also put pressure where you really want it a lot more since it hurts WAY less to NOT farm a certain camp. Farm golems, gank top. Farm wraiths, gank mid. Farm wraiths, farm golems, gank top. Gank mid, farm wraiths. See where I'm getting at? Both of those points can be simplified to two major facts: Fact 1: Jungling now requires more choices than before. Fact 2: Individual choices the jungler makes have now less impact than before. -More junglers to chose from (since a "weak" jungler is now a "good" one it makes more sense to pick him compared to a "strong" one if the teamcomps call for it) -More small choices to make -Less predictable routes The huge negative points about this whole issue which, imo, can easily be adressed by tuning individual champions: -Very mobile junglers can abuse the above probably too well (Think Udyr, Skarner, Lee, Rammus, Shaco) -AoE and or quick clearing junglers can abuse the above probably too well (Think Udyr, Skarner, Lee, Cho Gath, Maokai, Yi) Any jungler who combines both of those has to be tuned down a little bit since I'm pretty damn sure they're ahead of the curve once these changes take place. You can thank me later. Also yes, I'll try and update my threads which I let slide during mah Skyrimbreak soonish. =P | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
*el throat clear* I like boobs, but I think Sona's are really overdoing it though. I mean, like, Cait's are big, but they're not in-your-face big like Sona's are. Also, I think Kat is hot for the fact that she wears leather. Tight leather on a fit chick is hotttttt. | ||
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:32 phyvo wrote: Finally, Stonewall's complaint that noobs can jungle now is completely elitist. Sorry, there's no reason why the mere act of jungling should be an exclusive club type affair any more than the mere act of laning. Lowering barriers to entry like this is fine and part of LoL's general design. I see nothing wrong with the idea of jungling being more accessible. Yes, these particular changes seem to have reduced a great deal of the jungle strategy, yes, that is a problem, no, newbies should not be forced to spend 10k IP on runes to make jungling better than 2v2ing top lane. Ugh no, it's not that jungling is this exclusive thing that only the best people can do. It's that how do you expect someone who doesn't understand the game to jungle? They will literally sit in their jungle all day and kill creeps, which this new system encourages. New players tend to have bad map awareness as well as not know when they should go gank, two things that junglers require. Also, unless riot requires you to have a jungler every game, low level people are now going to have to deal with 1v2 lanes, which is not fun. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On November 26 2011 12:01 Requizen wrote: Everyone seems angry, so I'd like to voice my opinions. *el throat clear* I like boobs, but I think Sona's are really overdoing it though. I mean, like, Cait's are big, but they're not in-your-face big like Sona's are. Also, I think Kat is hot for the fact that she wears leather. Tight leather on a fit chick is hotttttt. I dunno. Police Cait skin kinda pushes the limit. I do like Classic Chinese Akali splash art, as well as her Blood Moon one. Chinese Nightblade Irelia is also really good. | ||
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