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[Patch 1.0.0.127: Graves] General Discussion - Page 173

Forum Index > LoL General
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Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
October 31 2011 23:19 GMT
#3441
The problem with manamune is that most of the items cost is in mana which is a horrible investment for most heroes. Unless you're burning 100%->0 of your mana in a single teamfight you aren't making use of what a lot of the item is budgeted for. Philo gives more mana/5 and gives the additional benefits of gold/10 as well as the health/5. It build into an item which gives cdr and even more mana regen to help you sustain even further. Even disregarding the gold/10 the item is much better because it provides all the stats you need as cdr ashe. Manamune might provide a bit of ad, but it is not effective until your tear is fully charged which is a huge setback for your midgame. People don't give manamune credit because it isn't a good item. There are much better options out there.

If you need sustain ninety-nine times out of a hundred I'd take a philo over a tear. Philo gives more mana regen and is essentially free if you keep it around long enough.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
October 31 2011 23:25 GMT
#3442
with corki you burn through your base pool in no time
130 mana / Q
ulti: 40 mana / sec
100 mana / valkyrie
100ish mana/gatling gun

??
And all is illuminated.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:29:13
October 31 2011 23:28 GMT
#3443
Shyvana pics/abilities/lore are out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1429958

That is one unflattering picture of her dragon form.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Logrus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States228 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:43:05
October 31 2011 23:30 GMT
#3444
just to play devils advocate some more:

but philo and reverie et al. have no offensive application at all, you're spending money and a valuble item slot to get mana sustain and thats what you get but thats ALL you get.

manamune is money spent on mana sustain and takes up an item slot but while fixing your mana provides offensive benefit at the same time.

I see Manamune as a BF sword that you can upgrade into an inBFinite mana sword for 400g. Honestly I think part of the stigma comes from the fat its built with a tear and long sword. If instead the recipe was a BF + 400 = manamune...

Also just a reminder, this is not a discussion about sustain on Ashe. You're 100% right that philo is better for sustain on Ashe in a normal situation. This is a discussion about Shushei's semi-troll cdr based manamune build where you assume cdr boots + bruta. Manamune pretty ideal in that situation (and he sells it later anyway, too)

edit: also, its pretty easy to burn through all your mana in a fight as Ashe. A few volleys + frost shots into an arrow followed by a few more volleys and frost shots is a TON of mana. In fact I think one of the limiting features of frost shot is the crazy mana cost. in a normal build volley is not too hard to sustain by itself assuming you're not spamming on cooldown, but if u start taking frost shots too you run a very risky line of not having the mana to arrow
"Down, down into the pile, into the great slag heap, window onto the ends of time and space, where nothing is to be seen at the end, I went, between walls forever afire, never burnt down..." -Merlin, Prince of Chaos
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
October 31 2011 23:34 GMT
#3445
You know what feels good?
When your 5man team just lost to a 5man bm-flamers team, next game you get matched again, they begin with "again boring noobstomp" and in the end you crush them without losing a single tower so you can type back that being an ass can backfire hard
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
October 31 2011 23:37 GMT
#3446
On November 01 2011 08:28 Seuss wrote:
Shyvana pics/abilities/lore are out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1429958

That is one unflattering picture of her dragon form.

Oh my god that is ugly.
Is that model going live?
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
JBright
Profile Joined September 2010
Vancouver14381 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:41:17
October 31 2011 23:39 GMT
#3447
On November 01 2011 08:28 Seuss wrote:
Shyvana pics/abilities/lore are out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1429958

That is one unflattering picture of her dragon form.


Sounds like an AP bruiser with headbutt as an ultimate.

edit: ninja'd. And I wasn't even that close T_T.
ModeratorThe good and the wise lead quiet lives. Neo's #1 Frenemy and nightmare.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
October 31 2011 23:42 GMT
#3448
im so confused. how exactly is shyvana's passive supposed to work -.-
JackDino
Profile Joined July 2010
Gabon6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:47:13
October 31 2011 23:45 GMT
#3449
Exactly what it says, everytime you autoattack the passive does something to every ability. You autoattack once, .5sec cd off her Q and you get 2 fury for example.
Which also means her Q loses 1sec off the cd when she uses it lol.
If you have burnout up aswell, you autoattack once, Q loses .5sec cd and the duration of her W is increased by 1second.
This isnt Broodwar so I dont owe anyone respect for beating me. -arb
GranDim
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada1214 Posts
October 31 2011 23:49 GMT
#3450
On November 01 2011 08:39 JBright wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 08:28 Seuss wrote:
Shyvana pics/abilities/lore are out: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1429958

That is one unflattering picture of her dragon form.


Sounds like an AP bruiser with headbutt as an ultimate.

edit: ninja'd. And I wasn't even that close T_T.


AoE headbutt that transform her abilities. Actually its more of an AoE drag than headbutt since it seems like she stack everything at her target location.

The passive reduce the cooldown on Q just like Skarner, W duration is extended by attacking during it like ghostblade, attacks deal extra damage on targets debuffed by E.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:53:12
October 31 2011 23:52 GMT
#3451
I sense awesome tanky dps incoming, who works great with Triforce.

For the record, Shyvana was designed by Coronarch, who also made Akali, Udyr, Poppy, Corki, Karma, Yorick, Lee Sin and Brand. FotM OP inc.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Logrus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States228 Posts
October 31 2011 23:54 GMT
#3452
so how are we building her?
the w is her aoe so ur prolly level that up first.. ?
but I guess the question re: items is with what stat will her abilities scale
with AD like shes Riven or will she be a rumble type AP melee?
They say shes primarily a melee fighter but aside from the q her abilities seem more 'magic' based, ie: flame breath ?
"Down, down into the pile, into the great slag heap, window onto the ends of time and space, where nothing is to be seen at the end, I went, between walls forever afire, never burnt down..." -Merlin, Prince of Chaos
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
October 31 2011 23:58 GMT
#3453
On November 01 2011 08:30 Logrus wrote:
just to play devils advocate some more:

but philo and reverie et al. have no offensive application at all, you're spending money and a valuble item slot to get mana sustain and thats what you get but thats ALL you get.

manamune is money spent on mana sustain and takes up an item slot but while fixing your mana provides offensive benefit at the same time.

I see Manamune as a BF sword that you can upgrade into an inBFinite mana sword for 400g. Honestly I think part of the stigma comes from the fat its built with a tear and long sword. If instead the recipe was a BF + 400 = manamune...

Also just a reminder, this is not a discussion about sustain on Ashe. You're 100% right that philo is better for sustain on Ashe in a normal situation. This is a discussion about Shushei's semi-troll cdr based manamune build where you assume cdr boots + bruta. Manamune pretty ideal in that situation (and he sells it later anyway, too)

edit: also, its pretty easy to burn through all your mana in a fight as Ashe. A few volleys + frost shots into an arrow followed by a few more volleys and frost shots is a TON of mana. In fact I think one of the limiting features of frost shot is the crazy mana cost. in a normal build volley is not too hard to sustain by itself assuming you're not spamming on cooldown, but if u start taking frost shots too you run a very risky line of not having the mana to arrow


You can see that Manamune as a BF sword all you want, but it doesn't upgrade into anything like a real BF sword. I can get a Philo+Bruta for the cost of Manamune (not quite, but very close...Can I use the gold my philo generates to cover the extra cost ^_^). I have more mana sustain and cdr and it takes zero charge time. Later on in the game when I need more mana I can upgrade that Philo into a reverie which gives me a neat active, along with some cdr as well as the additional mana/5. A fully charged Manamune might be almost equal to a BF sword, but you can't charge your tear instantly and the cdr build really shines early on which means your tear isn't going to be charged. The manamune also doesn't provide any cdr which is a huge negative for this build in my opinion.

All you get is mana sustain from the Philo because it costs 800 gold and tear/manamune cost more and give less. Tear also gives you some extra mana pool obviously, but I've already stated my opinion that I'd prefer a Philo to a tear in almost every situation.

I kinda turned this into a tangent on why Manamune isn't a good item ^_^
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
November 01 2011 00:03 GMT
#3454
Wow shyvana looks terrible, 100% chance she blows ass you heard it here first
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
November 01 2011 00:03 GMT
#3455
-.- I just get the feeling she is a nidalee who turns into branddragon instead of a cougar lawl... idk i think if what riot say is true, my dive-loving friend will enjoy her
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
November 01 2011 00:10 GMT
#3456
I don't think there's anything more gratifying than playing a really good game on blitzcrank and just grabbing people into perfect combos consistently.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
November 01 2011 00:13 GMT
#3457
On November 01 2011 08:42 Ryuu314 wrote:
im so confused. how exactly is shyvana's passive supposed to work -.-

exactly the way it says.. it even tells you her attacks trigger the effect on whatever spell shes using
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
rigwarl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States540 Posts
November 01 2011 00:17 GMT
#3458
Shyvana's ult is an AoE poppy charge (also a blink), that will own. She has a movespeed boost too so you can get close, flash in and charge 2 of them back into your team or something.

Dunno if she'll be *good* but can hardly be bad.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
November 01 2011 00:20 GMT
#3459
On November 01 2011 09:10 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
I don't think there's anything more gratifying than playing a really good game on blitzcrank and just grabbing people into perfect combos consistently.


Cross map perfect bullseye with Enchanted Crystal Arrow to secure a kill?
I am the Town Medic.
beefhamburger
Profile Joined December 2007
United States3962 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 00:28:12
November 01 2011 00:23 GMT
#3460
Triforce seems to be a core item for her. Wit's End might be good with her q as well as her e for good armor and MR shredding. Rageblade too possibly.
Does anyone know if her human abilities proc while in dragon form? Like will she get the movement speed buff when using burnout as a dragon?

I think her human form looks good but her dragon form looks more like a bat.....
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