• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:30
CEST 08:30
KST 15:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy20ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy3GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
JD's Ro24 review BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2659 users

[Patch 1.0.0.126: Xerath] General Discussion - Page 70

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 156 Next
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#1381
I was generally interested as to what people thought, I already have an answer typed out. I just felt it a little long. There's so much to say about such a small 2 lined question. Another thought was of junglers. Does the passive EXP make their ganks too strong because they don't have to stay in the jungle to stay caught up and can actively gank much more. Does this change also make things like Wolves, Wraiths and Small golems obsolete because they offer nothing except EXP and money, but nothing you could have gotten from ganking the new overly aggressive top or bot lane?

I tend to not be sure of myself, its a self esteem issue
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#1382
On October 11 2011 06:10 MoonBear wrote:
On the same note, Design and the Live Balance Team are looking at minion power in lane. They don't want it to feel like minions are the bigger threat in lane for the early levels, but they can't be ignorable. I cannot comment further on this at this stage however...

Making them aggro less ?
I mean, I didn't have much troubles with minion power, I feel like their damage is quite well designed.
The fact is that if you want to harass your ennemy a bit, autoattack him for one a two attacks, you don't want to take more minion damage than you do to your ennemy, that's just stupid. By making them attack the ennemy champions only after like 3-4 attacks, they would be as effective in a fight and discourage less harassment.
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
October 10 2011 21:32 GMT
#1383
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
October 10 2011 21:36 GMT
#1384
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.
hi
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
October 10 2011 21:37 GMT
#1385
On October 11 2011 06:24 alexlw92 wrote:
why dont you just make the space between lanes smaller. more ganks, more roaming, less MIA calls, more action.


Do you mean between lanes like, distance from mid->bot? Even if you mean that and not each individual lane distance, the condensing of the jungle could cause even more unintended awkwardness(completely changes jungle fights, think of how tight it already is no remove some of the space it has), you'd require less wards for complete vision, and in the end the tower is still the same and it'll be identical to any gank you face with current map layout. The only change would be reaction time, which is covered by the greater % of area of vision wards would give you by condensing down the map.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:42:34
October 10 2011 21:40 GMT
#1386
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:43:42
October 10 2011 21:43 GMT
#1387
Kassadin can also straight up carry a bad team, but is a little more situational.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:47:18
October 10 2011 21:45 GMT
#1388
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
October 10 2011 21:46 GMT
#1389
On October 11 2011 06:40 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.


Yea I was debating getting cass but I was told she wasn't really competitive and super situational, originally it was between her brand and malzahar.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
October 10 2011 21:52 GMT
#1390
OddOne rages harder than Hotshot holy shit.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
October 10 2011 22:02 GMT
#1391
Which champions do you guys think/hope for in this weeks rotation? I hope Jarvan, I really wanna try him out.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
October 10 2011 22:03 GMT
#1392
On October 11 2011 06:45 BlackMagister wrote:
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.


When everybody sucks jungling vs no jungler is 50/50. When your jungler is half-decent or playing an op early ganker it's a massacre in favor of the jungling team. No idea what happens if both teams are full of elite players because AFAIK it's never been done in a serious match.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 10 2011 22:04 GMT
#1393
On October 11 2011 06:46 esotericc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:40 spinesheath wrote:
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.


Yea I was debating getting cass but I was told she wasn't really competitive and super situational, originally it was between her brand and malzahar.

Well, Cass suffers similar issues as ranged DPS: If your whole team is gunning after some NOT-THE-TANK and leaves you to die to some melee DPS then you're not gonna be able to do much. But if your enemies either don't focus you or your team is keeping the enemies at bay for a while, Cass just destroys when fed.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:12:23
October 10 2011 22:11 GMT
#1394
On October 11 2011 07:03 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:45 BlackMagister wrote:
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.


When everybody sucks jungling vs no jungler is 50/50. When your jungler is half-decent or playing an op early ganker it's a massacre in favor of the jungling team. No idea what happens if both teams are full of elite players because AFAIK it's never been done in a serious match.

The biggest problem I see is that even when it's obvious that the enemy team doesn't have a jungler, the solo top guy usually (at least at my level) doesn't take a champ that has the sustainability to go against 2 champs for short periods of time. But from my limited experiences, it seems even in such a case, if you do a short jungle run to top with a fast jungler you can get to the top lane with a level advantage against the enemy top double lane (with udyr I've done this going both wolfs -> wraiths -> golems and the other way around with tiger). Then you can just stay laning on top or if you somehow rape the top and the other guy gets all the kills and is a snowballing champ (Jax for example) then you can return to jungling and ganking the other lanes.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
October 10 2011 22:39 GMT
#1395
Watching the TSM sleep over on stream is so much fun. I really hope they take the idea of doing a reality TV show when they move into their gaming house.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:46:21
October 10 2011 22:40 GMT
#1396
Well then it would be an issue over whether the team comp is right for a jungler + solo top vs the two enemy champs with one side having a lvl advantage at the lvl 1 fight or buff and the other side having a better summoner spell.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:47:56
October 10 2011 22:47 GMT
#1397
Imo jungle-less play is abit understudied. Some 2v1 lanes are impossible for everyone (think Alistar/Maokai or other hard CC combo with a point-and-click ranged stun), no kind of sustain will help if they deny you experience and can dive you at levels 4-5, and no jungle gank will help when the solo is actually behind in levels or straight up dead. Then, if one of the guys on top can transition to roaming (both Maokai and Alistar are excellent roamers and either of them is fine soloing the won lane) after winning the lane it may lead to disasters in mid.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
October 10 2011 22:55 GMT
#1398
I think this weekend proved that not running a jungle will simply never happen. 1v2 lanes consistently were able to do a decent job of farming and maintaining a level advantage. In addition, the strength of gank threats is incredible. Plus, not having control of your own buffs is terrible, and giving an entire jungle to 1 person is a fast ticket to a 4th carry on the enemy team. And you still need someone to carry smite for dragon and baron. So no, jungling will always be optimal.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
October 10 2011 23:06 GMT
#1399
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.



good old annie still destroys solo queue by dropping tibbers on 4 people and then ae stun again after 4 secs or something.
Also, its always hilarious after a big tournament weekend to get all the enemies in your lane that are trying to be really fancy with their new hipster champion picks and then forget that annie can 1 shot them.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 23:12:59
October 10 2011 23:12 GMT
#1400
On October 11 2011 07:47 BluzMan wrote:
Imo jungle-less play is abit understudied. Some 2v1 lanes are impossible for everyone (think Alistar/Maokai or other hard CC combo with a point-and-click ranged stun), no kind of sustain will help if they deny you experience and can dive you at levels 4-5, and no jungle gank will help when the solo is actually behind in levels or straight up dead. Then, if one of the guys on top can transition to roaming (both Maokai and Alistar are excellent roamers and either of them is fine soloing the won lane) after winning the lane it may lead to disasters in mid.


I think the problem is that level 2 ganking defeats this strategy. The jungler is going to be level 2 when he ganks while everyone else is still level 1. The duo is also overextended by definition since at least once of them has to bush camp near the enemy turret.

The strategy is also undermined by the tendency for high level teams to stick together like glue to protect their jungler/avoid stupid face checks. It'd be simple enough for the jungling team to kill the wraith camp near top as a team then hard leash the red camp for the jungler, or just go top as a team if they think there'll be a chance at an easy two kills.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 156 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
RO32 Group A
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft471
Nina 169
StarCraft: Brood War
Pusan 156
NotJumperer 25
Icarus 12
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm154
League of Legends
JimRising 783
Reynor22
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K949
Other Games
summit1g10064
PiGStarcraft193
Mew2King34
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV198
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 81
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH247
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1360
• HappyZerGling84
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 30m
WardiTV Team League
4h 30m
OSC
6h 30m
BSL
12h 30m
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
12h 30m
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Wardi Open
1d 3h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 9h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
[ Show More ]
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Escore
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
IPSL
6 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.