• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:31
CET 18:31
KST 02:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest RSL Revival: Season 3 Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which season is the best in ASL? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1766 users

[Patch 1.0.0.126: Xerath] General Discussion - Page 70

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 156 Next
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#1381
I was generally interested as to what people thought, I already have an answer typed out. I just felt it a little long. There's so much to say about such a small 2 lined question. Another thought was of junglers. Does the passive EXP make their ganks too strong because they don't have to stay in the jungle to stay caught up and can actively gank much more. Does this change also make things like Wolves, Wraiths and Small golems obsolete because they offer nothing except EXP and money, but nothing you could have gotten from ganking the new overly aggressive top or bot lane?

I tend to not be sure of myself, its a self esteem issue
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
October 10 2011 21:31 GMT
#1382
On October 11 2011 06:10 MoonBear wrote:
On the same note, Design and the Live Balance Team are looking at minion power in lane. They don't want it to feel like minions are the bigger threat in lane for the early levels, but they can't be ignorable. I cannot comment further on this at this stage however...

Making them aggro less ?
I mean, I didn't have much troubles with minion power, I feel like their damage is quite well designed.
The fact is that if you want to harass your ennemy a bit, autoattack him for one a two attacks, you don't want to take more minion damage than you do to your ennemy, that's just stupid. By making them attack the ennemy champions only after like 3-4 attacks, they would be as effective in a fight and discourage less harassment.
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
October 10 2011 21:32 GMT
#1383
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
October 10 2011 21:36 GMT
#1384
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.
hi
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
October 10 2011 21:37 GMT
#1385
On October 11 2011 06:24 alexlw92 wrote:
why dont you just make the space between lanes smaller. more ganks, more roaming, less MIA calls, more action.


Do you mean between lanes like, distance from mid->bot? Even if you mean that and not each individual lane distance, the condensing of the jungle could cause even more unintended awkwardness(completely changes jungle fights, think of how tight it already is no remove some of the space it has), you'd require less wards for complete vision, and in the end the tower is still the same and it'll be identical to any gank you face with current map layout. The only change would be reaction time, which is covered by the greater % of area of vision wards would give you by condensing down the map.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:42:34
October 10 2011 21:40 GMT
#1386
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
Juicyfruit
Profile Joined May 2008
Canada5484 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:43:42
October 10 2011 21:43 GMT
#1387
Kassadin can also straight up carry a bad team, but is a little more situational.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 21:47:18
October 10 2011 21:45 GMT
#1388
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.
esotericc
Profile Joined July 2011
449 Posts
October 10 2011 21:46 GMT
#1389
On October 11 2011 06:40 spinesheath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.


Yea I was debating getting cass but I was told she wasn't really competitive and super situational, originally it was between her brand and malzahar.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
October 10 2011 21:52 GMT
#1390
OddOne rages harder than Hotshot holy shit.
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
October 10 2011 22:02 GMT
#1391
Which champions do you guys think/hope for in this weeks rotation? I hope Jarvan, I really wanna try him out.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
October 10 2011 22:03 GMT
#1392
On October 11 2011 06:45 BlackMagister wrote:
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.


When everybody sucks jungling vs no jungler is 50/50. When your jungler is half-decent or playing an op early ganker it's a massacre in favor of the jungling team. No idea what happens if both teams are full of elite players because AFAIK it's never been done in a serious match.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
spinesheath
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany8679 Posts
October 10 2011 22:04 GMT
#1393
On October 11 2011 06:46 esotericc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:40 spinesheath wrote:
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.

If you assume that you get ahead and fed, then Cassiopeia and Gragas are probably what you are looking for.
On October 11 2011 06:36 Sponkz wrote:
When do you get loss forgiven? I just played a 4v5 from the start, and the enemy team won in 18 min and lost 22 rating zzzz.

Only when the servers are really crappy etc. Basically when 6 people randomly disconnect because of server issues all the time, ping stays at 2000+ etc.
Then it is possible that Riot presses the "button" and everyone gets loss forgiven.


Yea I was debating getting cass but I was told she wasn't really competitive and super situational, originally it was between her brand and malzahar.

Well, Cass suffers similar issues as ranged DPS: If your whole team is gunning after some NOT-THE-TANK and leaves you to die to some melee DPS then you're not gonna be able to do much. But if your enemies either don't focus you or your team is keeping the enemies at bay for a while, Cass just destroys when fed.
If you have a good reason to disagree with the above, please tell me. Thank you.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:12:23
October 10 2011 22:11 GMT
#1394
On October 11 2011 07:03 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2011 06:45 BlackMagister wrote:
I'm kind of curious how strong a team without a jungler is compared another team that does have one with both teams being about the same skill level. I know this is mostly non ranked match experiences, but it seems like having two at top being able to zone out the lone person at top is still beneficial even if they have to share cs and exp. Of course the jungling is team is stronger I'm just wondering how close it is. You could also still possibly pull someone off to get buffs, but not worry about the small creeps.

Although yes I really am just wondering because of my non ranked games where having a jungler can be a bad thing if they're too slow or suck.


When everybody sucks jungling vs no jungler is 50/50. When your jungler is half-decent or playing an op early ganker it's a massacre in favor of the jungling team. No idea what happens if both teams are full of elite players because AFAIK it's never been done in a serious match.

The biggest problem I see is that even when it's obvious that the enemy team doesn't have a jungler, the solo top guy usually (at least at my level) doesn't take a champ that has the sustainability to go against 2 champs for short periods of time. But from my limited experiences, it seems even in such a case, if you do a short jungle run to top with a fast jungler you can get to the top lane with a level advantage against the enemy top double lane (with udyr I've done this going both wolfs -> wraiths -> golems and the other way around with tiger). Then you can just stay laning on top or if you somehow rape the top and the other guy gets all the kills and is a snowballing champ (Jax for example) then you can return to jungling and ganking the other lanes.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
October 10 2011 22:39 GMT
#1395
Watching the TSM sleep over on stream is so much fun. I really hope they take the idea of doing a reality TV show when they move into their gaming house.
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:46:21
October 10 2011 22:40 GMT
#1396
Well then it would be an issue over whether the team comp is right for a jungler + solo top vs the two enemy champs with one side having a lvl advantage at the lvl 1 fight or buff and the other side having a better summoner spell.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 22:47:56
October 10 2011 22:47 GMT
#1397
Imo jungle-less play is abit understudied. Some 2v1 lanes are impossible for everyone (think Alistar/Maokai or other hard CC combo with a point-and-click ranged stun), no kind of sustain will help if they deny you experience and can dive you at levels 4-5, and no jungle gank will help when the solo is actually behind in levels or straight up dead. Then, if one of the guys on top can transition to roaming (both Maokai and Alistar are excellent roamers and either of them is fine soloing the won lane) after winning the lane it may lead to disasters in mid.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
Two_DoWn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States13684 Posts
October 10 2011 22:55 GMT
#1398
I think this weekend proved that not running a jungle will simply never happen. 1v2 lanes consistently were able to do a decent job of farming and maintaining a level advantage. In addition, the strength of gank threats is incredible. Plus, not having control of your own buffs is terrible, and giving an entire jungle to 1 person is a fast ticket to a 4th carry on the enemy team. And you still need someone to carry smite for dragon and baron. So no, jungling will always be optimal.
"What is the air speed velocity of an unladen courier?" "Dire or Radiant?"
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
October 10 2011 23:06 GMT
#1399
On October 11 2011 06:32 esotericc wrote:
So which AP champs are most likely to dominate a team? Like for example morg is strong but in solo Q she is kind of boring since she isn't likely to ace a team unless you time a lucky ult.



good old annie still destroys solo queue by dropping tibbers on 4 people and then ae stun again after 4 secs or something.
Also, its always hilarious after a big tournament weekend to get all the enemies in your lane that are trying to be really fancy with their new hipster champion picks and then forget that annie can 1 shot them.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-10 23:12:59
October 10 2011 23:12 GMT
#1400
On October 11 2011 07:47 BluzMan wrote:
Imo jungle-less play is abit understudied. Some 2v1 lanes are impossible for everyone (think Alistar/Maokai or other hard CC combo with a point-and-click ranged stun), no kind of sustain will help if they deny you experience and can dive you at levels 4-5, and no jungle gank will help when the solo is actually behind in levels or straight up dead. Then, if one of the guys on top can transition to roaming (both Maokai and Alistar are excellent roamers and either of them is fine soloing the won lane) after winning the lane it may lead to disasters in mid.


I think the problem is that level 2 ganking defeats this strategy. The jungler is going to be level 2 when he ganks while everyone else is still level 1. The duo is also overextended by definition since at least once of them has to bush camp near the enemy turret.

The strategy is also undermined by the tendency for high level teams to stick together like glue to protect their jungler/avoid stupid face checks. It'd be simple enough for the jungling team to kill the wraith camp near top as a team then hard leash the red camp for the jungler, or just go top as a team if they think there'll be a chance at an easy two kills.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Prev 1 68 69 70 71 72 156 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
StarCraft2.fi
17:00
15V Cup / Groups Day 3
starcraft2fi 78
Reevou 4
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 480
Fuzer 346
Livibee 89
BRAT_OK 79
gerald23 65
SpeCial 64
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3304
Shuttle 1128
Mini 725
EffOrt 487
Larva 351
Rush 254
Hyun 92
Dewaltoss 91
hero 80
Aegong 28
[ Show more ]
Rock 21
soO 18
Dota 2
Gorgc6040
qojqva4287
Dendi1202
syndereN410
Counter-Strike
zeus353
chrisJcsgo49
kRYSTAL_18
Other Games
DeMusliM2245
hiko726
FrodaN725
Hui .152
QueenE85
KnowMe81
Trikslyr50
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 28
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV555
League of Legends
• TFBlade1032
Other Games
• Shiphtur60
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 29m
The PondCast
16h 29m
OSC
22h 29m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
3 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV 2025
3 days
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
4 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.