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On October 03 2011 22:53 Zenithal wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Trynd is considered trash in higher levels? He's tough, has an invincibility button, sustain with a lifesteal, and does silly high damage when built even part way. Why don't we see more of him?
I'm pretty sure he's not considered trash. However he excels in fights where everyone just goes in and fights to the death, whereas many tournament level teams are engaging and disengaging all the time in fights.
Basically: The more melees the enemy has, the better the chances that Trynd gets to fight instead of chase during those 6 seconds.
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loco real bad at renekton i watch him play and then my dell get a virus
do not follow guide he gets carried all the time
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On October 03 2011 23:05 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 22:53 Zenithal wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Trynd is considered trash in higher levels? He's tough, has an invincibility button, sustain with a lifesteal, and does silly high damage when built even part way. Why don't we see more of him? I'm pretty sure he's not considered trash. However he excels in fights where everyone just goes in and fights to the death, whereas many tournament level teams are engaging and disengaging all the time in fights. Basically: The more melees the enemy has, the better the chances that Trynd gets to fight instead of chase during those 6 seconds.
his laneing isnt that stellar either. jungling is quite fast but he has shitty ganks before 6.
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So, what is TL's general opinion of Elementz Tier List? Good? Bad? Do we need a TL Tier List?
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On October 03 2011 23:00 Juicyfruit wrote:
There are some people out there who play ONLY tryndamere and they get good results.
coughh4ckerv2cough
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On October 03 2011 23:29 57 Corvette wrote:
So, what is TL's general opinion of Elementz Tier List? Good? Bad? Do we need a TL Tier List?
No. Tier lists are stupid. There are viable champs and ones who are not viable. And the total list of not viable champs is incredibly small. At any level below CLG/TSM/Dignitas ect it just comes down to what people play the best. Any viable champ for a role that someone can play well will work better than any "tier 1" champ that they dont specialize in.
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And most of the "non-viable" champs just come down to "easily countered". Anyone who's stopped in their tracks and made completely useless by CC (Yi) or are countered by an item (Eve/Twitch with an Oracle's) are considered non-viable just because you can mostly laugh at them. LeBlanc isn't just because past a certain point in the game she doesn't do anything. Then there are some with poor design/nerfed too hard that just don't work or are the worst at what they do.
If you're just doing ranked for the lolz, it doesn't really matter who you play. If you want to get to the front page ranked, you want to stick to some of the "more viable" champions. To be honest, Elementz's list is fine. He even says himself that anything in the top 3 tiers works fine for ranked, but the higher ones are just better. Morgana and Lux can both fill the AP/Support/CC role, but Morg is just better at it for the most part.
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On October 03 2011 23:29 57 Corvette wrote:
So, what is TL's general opinion of Elementz Tier List? Good? Bad? Do we need a TL Tier List?
Nonsense. Champs can go from best pick possible to really bad pick based on pick timing and team compositions.
People see the list and think "my pick is good because of Elementz tier list", even if that is not what Elementz aims for.
Champ combinations and counters are completely unaccounted for so his tier list is lacking a TON of information, which makes it pretty useless. Incompleteness really hurts.
Basically the only thing you can draw from it is: Banning champs from his T1 isn't too bad, and the very first pick wouldn't hurt to be a T1 champ (assuming Elementz actually keeps up with the current balance which he doesn't really). Everything else... not covered.
If we made a TL Tier list it would have to have a much better concept. Traditional Tier lists are designed for 1v1 games, LoL needs a different approach. If there is a good concept (I don't know of any), it's likely going to be pretty complex though.
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On October 03 2011 23:29 57 Corvette wrote:
So, what is TL's general opinion of Elementz Tier List? Good? Bad? Do we need a TL Tier List?
When i first started playing lol like 2 months ago I thought that tier list told me everything. Then i realized it was shit -.-,
Okey morgana was still tier 3 after the buffs. Which i thought made no sense when i played her. I was like ur ult at least forces a flash and her dmg, control, farm, sustainability is insane.... Then in a period of 1 and a half months she moves to top of solo que when she got no changes what so ever. Galieo was also tier 4 and Nasus. Its like wut?
Just play heroes your comfortable with the only real bad Champs are the stealth.
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On October 03 2011 23:25 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 23:05 spinesheath wrote:On October 03 2011 22:53 Zenithal wrote:
Can someone explain to me why Trynd is considered trash in higher levels? He's tough, has an invincibility button, sustain with a lifesteal, and does silly high damage when built even part way. Why don't we see more of him? I'm pretty sure he's not considered trash. However he excels in fights where everyone just goes in and fights to the death, whereas many tournament level teams are engaging and disengaging all the time in fights. Basically: The more melees the enemy has, the better the chances that Trynd gets to fight instead of chase during those 6 seconds. his laneing isnt that stellar either. jungling is quite fast but he has shitty ganks before 6.
His laning is fine if you use the "I have 40+ AP at level 1, but my core build is still PD + IE" strategy. Played correctly that setup is auto-win against most champions, and against the few where it isn't both of you will free farm (which is basically auto-win anyway since you're Tryndamere).
On October 03 2011 23:48 Tabbris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 23:29 57 Corvette wrote:
So, what is TL's general opinion of Elementz Tier List? Good? Bad? Do we need a TL Tier List? When i first started playing lol like 2 months ago I thought that tier list told me everything. Then i realized it was shit -.-, Okey morgana was still tier 3 after the buffs. Which i thought made no sense when i played her. I was like ur ult at least forces a flash and her dmg, control, farm, sustainability is insane.... Then in a period of 1 and a half months she moves to top of solo que when she got no changes what so ever. Galieo was also tier 4 and Nasus. Its like wut? Just play heroes your comfortable with the only real bad Champs are the stealth.
Elementz' Tier List is like the credit rating agencies, it's doesn't change until well after everyone else already figured something out.
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The only list I would ever feel comfortable making would be one with all 80 some-odd champs and list what each of them brought to the table, then actually ranking any who bring the same thing against each other. But even that gets stupid because trying to compare, say, ranged ad gets messy.
Is ashe slow worth more than corki armorshred and mobility? What about corki mobility and true damage when compared to trists mobility and burst damage? Or Cait's early game vs vayne's ability to snowball so hard. Tier lists just dont make a lot of sense.
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OMG this Caller Tier List. Almost fell off of my chair, laughing so hard.
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I think it'd be better, actually, if there was a tier list of all the roles (Support, AD carry, burst Mage, sustain Mage, Assassin/Melee DPS, Bruiser, Tank, Initiator, Jungle), and then gave a list of compositions of those that work well together. Probably a lot of overlap, but I think it'd be better for people trying to get into ranked.
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haha yes thank you for linking that 
plus two-down you should make that list, even if it was just a simplified version of the strengths/weaknesses of each character. you could even add in a counterpicks too or something.
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It takes too much effort and there's only marginal benefits of doing that over simply looking at the character's wiki page.
Counterpicks is a dangerous idea to play with altogether. There's too many factors to consider and you definitely can't say "picking x to counter y" will work.
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CAPTAIN TEEMO ON DUTY
Junglers influence lane counters, as well. Some matchups gain their strength by being able to push and play aggressively, but mobile junglers with easy low level ganks (e.g. ls, shaco, nunu) can make the slightest bit of aggression (the shit where you're pushed in your lane) result in your death. Many of these matchups change heavily after both champs reach 6+, so the lane control from the jungler means your counter doesn't counter shit.
There's also other counters unrelated to the lane phase, like Janna vs Fiddle.
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I suppose if I have time I can go ahead and make that list. We actually used to have something for new players in this section that stopped getting updated.
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It strikes me that Elementz tier list is effectively more of a "this is what the good people are picking often in games" list, with a bit of dabbling into prediction but mainly a distillation of current trends in the metagame.
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On October 03 2011 23:33 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2011 23:00 Juicyfruit wrote:
There are some people out there who play ONLY tryndamere and they get good results. coughh4ckerv2cough
hey man thats not nice man he plays a mean karthus too
also i just went to elementz blog to check out his tier lists which i haven't done in a while and wtf every time i click on something there's a fucking pop up ad, who the fuck does that
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EPT
