EPT[Patch 1.0.0.124: Talon] General Discussion - Page 88
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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Kaneh
Canada737 Posts
sad panda | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:04 Odds wrote: Regarding the information in posts, I'm going to start keeping my current elo in my TL signature, it may be wise for others to do the same. It's not a perfect fix, but at least it's an easy way for newcomers to pick out who may (or may not) be worth listening to. Regarding this: AA > Manamune on Skar I've stopped getting tear, actually, for the same reason I stopped getting it on Cassi. Chalice is just better unless your name is Urgot or Ryze. When I first looked at Skarner, I felt like he was the hardest carry in the game, but couldn't place exactly why I was so convinced of this for a loooong time. But now I know. It's his passive. Skarner's passive is the most broken OP piece of bullshit passive in the game, stronger than even Poppy's I think. It may or may not make up for the rest of his subpar kit, but taken alone it is absolutely incredible. The reason: Skarner's passive makes CDR, AP, and Attack Speed scale multiplicatively. Let me repeat that for emphasis. SKARNER'S PASSIVE MAKES CDR, AP, AND ATTACK SPEED SCALE MULTIPLICATIVELY. Simply put, you can cut your cooldowns in half with CDR, and then cut them in half AGAIN with attack speed. Except with the attack speed, there is practically no upper limit to how much you can reduce your cooldowns. So when you have 31% CDR, 82%aspd and 148AP from masteries, Nashor's Tooth, and GRB, in a teamfight you can have your shield permenently up, refreshing something like every 3 seconds, Q about once per second, and E about once every 4 seconds. Needless to say, I think Sheen is a red herring. The optimum build is something like: boots 1 Chalice Nashor's GRB Zerks/Mercs/Swifts SV Wit's End/Bloodrazor, depending on the aspd cap, I'm not sure how many items it takes to max it out. None of this addresses his weakness in the lane phase(mediocre jungle, mediocre top), and you're going to blow through your mana pool so fast that chalice won't matter(teamfight scenario... for farming that's all well and cool but then you're back to square one where you suck ass vs other tops). Also SV really doesn't make much sense, his heal really is small, spammable or not... dedicating an item to that seems so silly, I'd much rather grab raw MR/Armor in that slot(BVeil more expensive but allows him to shrug off a kite spell on his engagement which could be important, also more hp+mana+mr). | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:44 Orpheos wrote: wai wai!!! manamune isnt core on ashe!??!?!?! what about the super pro catalyst ashe open? never die in lane! (legit i remember ppl in the official forums when I first started saying cata first ashe was the best thing since sliced bread) to be fair tho, that was when cata was a brokenass piece of shit item that you had to get on literally EVERYBODY | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:48 barbsq wrote: to be fair tho, that was when cata was a brokenass piece of shit item that you had to get on literally EVERYBODY Having cata and baiting people into turrets was fun. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:46 Kaneh wrote: i remember saying manamune was pretty non-optimal on corki and getting roasted for it =( sad panda Iirc that was back when Corki was almost always played in solo lanes, where IMO you get more mileage out of Tear than in duo lanes. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:48 barbsq wrote: to be fair tho, that was when cata was a brokenass piece of shit item that you had to get on literally EVERYBODY Sounds a lot like the Locket craze. That lasted all the way up until they remvoed it from the game. | ||
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Been out of power since Saturday, playing on a shitty laptop and a generator, and I'm really fed up with it. Keep getting shitty teammates, and then I end up tilting HARD. WTB cures... | ||
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:45 stormtemplar wrote: To be fair, 1400 is like the top 20%, while he may not be "good" he is above average. The problem with that is that top 20% means almost nothing. The game is played differently at distinct elo brackets, and advice that works at 1200 can be completely and absolutely wrong at 1400. Strategies that rely on your opponents "being bad" or misplaying won't hold up, and that's why people sometimes make a fuss about elo in these discussions. Well, that and standard e-peen boasting. On September 01 2011 05:45 stormtemplar wrote: Also, I'm holding at about 1150, so I'm pretty bad. What are some good tools to improve? What should I be using? I generally play AP carries, but I have yet to find a champ I'm happy with. Orianna is gamebreaking because of how easy it is to capitalise on bad positioning. Brand is also a good one, lots of AoE damage which is easy to pull off because people love to group up mid at that range. Zilean is good at getting kills early and turning battles with revive, but I doubt they'll let you play solo Zilean because "he's support". | ||
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unichan
United States4223 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:02 jcarlsoniv wrote: I've never been on a tilting streak so bad in my gaming career... Been out of power since Saturday, playing on a shitty laptop and a generator, and I'm really fed up with it. Keep getting shitty teammates, and then I end up tilting HARD. WTB cures... go hug a cat or a dog go do something charitable call your mommy and tell her you love her call your daddy and tell him you love him watch your favorite sitcom make yourself a smoothie etc | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:44 Caller wrote: even shikyo had like 1440 and hes from Finland and on EU the only good players are over 2k elo, and even then they are a very small minority show some goddamn humility Humility... Maybe learn some perspective? We are talking about a game jesus... | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
We have shitty ideas in champion threads all the time where lower skill level people go "Hey this matchup seems really bad", "I really like this build", etc. etc. What results is a good discussion where people who are looking to understand the champion/tactic/build better get a good view of how to think about it. Even with Shikyo's arguments, he at least could reason them out properly, and if there were big differences in opinion, he would acknowledge that it was partially due to disparity in skill level, and people would be fine with that. With zalz's assertions, he's not looking to learn or toss out an idea - he's looking to rant. And that's fine, but that belongs in the Shikyo QQ Memorial thread, not in GD. Or, if you want to have a discussion, have the right mindset. If you're just going to shit on people who have different experiences than you can (and can even reason properly), you're only making yourself look silly. zalz, don't try to speak like an expert on the topic when it just might be that you're not playing the champion correctly. There's a reason we see Swain picked quite often at higher ELO in tournament games, and it's not because the character is terrible. And don't try to make up for it by inflating your numbers (I used to be like almost top 200 a little bit you know *smugface*); it doesn't bode well on you.  Point being, I don't mind if people are bad at the game. I mind if they don't contribute positively. | ||
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Orpheos
United States1663 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:04 Lanzoma wrote: The problem with that is that top 20% means almost nothing. The game is played differently at distinct elo brackets, and advice that works at 1200 can be completely and absolutely stupid at 1400. Strategies that rely on your opponents "being bad" or misplaying won't hold up, and that's why people sometimes make a fuss about elo in these discussions. Well, that and standard e-peen boasting. Orianna is gamebreaking because of how easy it is to capitalise on bad positioning. Brand is also a good one, lots of AoE damage which is easy to pull off because people love to group up mid at that range. Zilean is good at getting kills early and turning battles with revive, but I doubt they'll let you play solo Zilean because "he's support". I personally find annie just as game breaking in the lower elo brackets AND its much easier to use her than orianna. in general I would try to get good at some solo APs. they do a really good job of capitalizing on idiots in lane because one little mistake can easily cost them their life as opposed to just getting hit or being protected by the other guy in lane. in addition, you have more control over the early game so even if your teammates are feeding abit, you can change the flow of the game by having some devastating burst+cc ganks. the only downside is that if you dont take advantage of your AP's early game, you arent exactly the best pusher. i dont play ranked much and I dont consider myself good at this game at all, but the two times ive decided to tryhard in ranked and annie wasnt banned, i just took flash ignite and kept one shotting the opposing mid and then ganking everywhere leading to extremely one sided games. ezpz | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:44 Orpheos wrote: wai wai!!! manamune isnt core on ashe!??!?!?! what about the super pro catalyst ashe open? never die in lane! (legit i remember ppl in the official forums when I first started saying cata first ashe was the best thing since sliced bread) lol... that was the meta back then. In beta, it was all about Philo Stone Ashe. Open Regen. Then it moved to Catalyst Ashe, you can lane forever!. Open Blue Crystal. Doran's stacking Ashe Now Boots first. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23464 Posts
I've had a few games where I suddenly think that a champion is suddenly unviable because of a few bad games where you're behind enough to lose teamfights but not enough to figure out how far behind you are. You lack some understanding of how to play out the teamfight and you just think there was nothing you could do when you see where you went wrong in retrospect after learning more. Calling swain weak in lane is pretty laughable when he gets free mana and basically rapes everyone who wants to play agressive because of the power of early game auto attacks with torment and the slow which does enough damage to make you run and eat even more auto attacks. Swains weakness is his lack of burst damage and shortish range which means a typical ad+ad carry pair can eliminate him very quickly from a safe distance. His healing was drastically reduced on tanks meaning he can't just heal to full constantly on the 2 tanks/bruisers and deal a hell of a lot of sustained damage. Ignite far from shuts down his ultimate it still does absurds about of aoe damage especially on torment targets , but it means he's a really easy focus target for a typical team that has extremely high range AP nuker combined with an AD carry is usually safer when you picked swain instead of someone like brand or annie. Just from my limited experience though it's far easier to just ignore swain in lane and cs as best you can as a sustain bruiser than to try to fight him. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On September 01 2011 05:04 Odds wrote: SKARNER'S PASSIVE MAKES CDR, AP, AND ATTACK SPEED SCALE MULTIPLICATIVELY. Simply put, you can cut your cooldowns in half with CDR, and then cut them in half AGAIN with attack speed. Except with the attack speed, there is practically no upper limit to how much you can reduce your cooldowns. So when you have 31% CDR, 82%aspd and 148AP from masteries, Nashor's Tooth, and GRB, in a teamfight you can have your shield permenently up, refreshing something like every 3 seconds, Q about once per second, and E about once every 4 seconds. Needless to say, I think Sheen is a red herring. The optimum build is something like: boots 1 Chalice Nashor's GRB Zerks/Mercs/Swifts SV Wit's End/Bloodrazor, depending on the aspd cap, I'm not sure how many items it takes to max it out. I have a burning hatred for everything that is Nashor's Tooth, since I just think it's a shitty item in general - it combines a bunch of stats (mp5, ap, as, cdr) that generally don't work together on any hero. However, I think the way we're playing skarner actually works OK with nashors tooth. I would suggest GRB before nash though, since he can keep that stacked up almost as well as Nidalee can. Got to try this soon. On September 01 2011 05:04 barbsq wrote:to be fair tho, cata is a brokenass POS item that you still have to get on EVERYBODY edit: fixed edit 2: zalz, 1400 elo is nothing. i've scared 1400 before and i know shit all about this game compared to people like uta/smash/loci. to be honest, you're making yourself look really silly. | ||
UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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Lanzoma
Mexico813 Posts
On September 01 2011 06:20 Orpheos wrote: I personally find annie just as game breaking in the lower elo brackets AND its much easier to use her than orianna. He already plays Annie and is commonly banned anyway. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
Edit: Also I don't actually consider myself remotely close to a top-end player anymore. Far from it, as I feel true top-end players would had an even easier time to gold/plat than I did, despite my eye-roll about it being largely smooth sailing. But I do feel like I have a pretty decent understanding of the game, and some of the mindsets behind why top players do what. | ||
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